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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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chocolote12 said:
I don't get the reference.
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This is the main villain of The Rescuers Down Under, a 1990s children's animated film which kicked unreasonable amounts of ass and featured a bunch of weird Australian wildlife. Specifically, the villain spends the entire film hunting a giant golden eagle, so the joke is that Birdmuncha vanished from K8P and moved to Australia to munch Aussie birds.
 
chocolote12 said:
That is a pretty good point. An absolutely, staggeringly huge library sounds like an incredible loss of money on the face of it, even if it's not a waste, but it does have ways of recouping those costs. Copying and selling books, and charging reasonable admission fees, are both pretty reliable ways of providing for the librarians who we'd need to take care of the collection, as well as stopping damages from disasters, thieves, and wandering itinerants who just like causing trouble (if they have to pay to get into the library, they'd be far less likely to destroy anything on a drunken whim, presumably).

Plus, we know that book sales are a good way to make lots of money (few spend as profligately as Mathilde individually, but I imagine she doesn't make up the majority of book purchases in any given year).
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well, it won't be that big (by modern standards) for awhile.

like, picture a small local school library, that would be a big one in this time period. a super library of multiple levels would be the work of lifetimes on live times.

if in the next 20 years it looks like an underground version of Trinity colleges long room it would still already be one of the greatest libraries in warhammer history.


(fyi: don't worry, they don't use the long room anymore for the old books, they are in airtight glass vacuum box, all those are props.)
 
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picklepikkl said:
This is the main villain of The Rescuers Down Under, a 1990s children's animated film which kicked unreasonable amounts of ass and featured a bunch of weird Australian wildlife. Specifically, the villain spends the entire film hunting a giant golden eagle, so the joke is that Birdmuncha vanished from K8P and moved to Australia to munch Aussie birds.
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Also, as the last GIF shows, the villain had a staggeringly orky Trukk, and from his custom pump wagon we know Birdmuncha would love that shit.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
well, it won't be that big (by modern standards) for awhile.

like, picture a small local school library, that would be a big one in this time period. a super library of multiple levels would be the work of lifetimes on live times.

if in the next 20 years it looks like an underground version of Trinity colleges long room it would still already be one of the greatest libraries in warhammer history.


(fyi: don't worry, they don't use the long room anymore for the old books, they are in airtight glass vacuum box, all those are props.)
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There's a reason the Burning of the Library of Alexandria is a tragedy we still hear about today.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
well, it won't be that big (by modern standards) for awhile.

like, picture a small local school library, that would be a big one in this time period. a super library of multiple levels would be the work of lifetimes on live times.

if in the next 20 years it looks like an underground version of Trinity colleges long room it would still already be one of the greatest libraries in warhammer history.


(fyi: don't worry, they don't use the long room anymore for the old books, they are in airtight glass vacuum box, all those are props.)
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Ahh... What a beautiful library. I know what I am voting for. Let's make a great library!
 
BoneyM said:
Not on its own. If the Under-Empire shatters or dissolves as a result to the extent that none of the resultant fragments can be considered a continuation or an inheritor of the Under-Empire, then it could be possible.
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Is there any sense of proportionality when it comes to Grudges? I mean, I understand that for a Karaz Ankor Dawi an eye for an eye is not enough to deserve anything like forgiveness or even leniency, especially if all payment/punishment/penance was forced upon the Grudge target, but how do they calculate what would be considered enough?
Because whatever damage the Skaven did, they did not shatter or dissolve the Karaz Ankor and the remaining Dwarven kingdoms, Karaz-a-Karag first and foremost, definitely consider themselves full and legitimate inheritors, do they not?
To put it differently, what would happen if, after the Horned Rat was in some form dealt with, a clan of Skaven publicly renounces their religion and all its influences along with all other forces of chaos, sends an envoy (vouched for by a Dawongr) and asks to negotiate for a fair judgement to be received by their clan?
 
Somewhat open to the idea of founding, expanding(where it would not put the Karak at risk) and maintaining a Great Library in Mathilde's name, and ensuring its accessibility. It's reasonably IC, its not something Belegar would normally do, it'd benefit the Karak in trade and regional importance and if we guarantee common access to it, we could even put Ranald on the door and watch the Verenans freak.
 
Rafin said:
Is there any sense of proportionality when it comes to Grudges? I mean, I understand that for a Karaz Ankor Dawi an eye for an eye is not enough to deserve anything like forgiveness or even leniency, especially if all payment/punishment/penance was forced upon the Grudge target, but how do they calculate what would be considered enough?
Because whatever damage the Skaven did, they did not shatter or dissolve the Karaz Ankor and the remaining Dwarven kingdoms, Karaz-a-Karag first and foremost, definitely consider themselves full and legitimate inheritors, do they not?
To put it differently, what would happen if, after the Horned Rat was in some form dealt with, a clan of Skaven publicly renounces their religion and all its influences along with all other forces of chaos, sends an envoy (vouched for by a Dawongr) and asks to negotiate for a fair judgement to be received by their clan?
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That disintegration is not what is required to repay the Grudges, that's what's required for them to become nullified instead of inherited. If the Horned Rat 'died' but the Under-Empire kept on being the Under-Empire, then it would retain all the Grudges. If the Under-Empire shattered but the largest piece of it continued in the same way as the old Under-Empire did, it would inherit the Grudges.

If the Horned Rat died, all the Council of Thirteen were removed from power, and the Under-Empire underwent a legitimate and unquestionable cultural transformation and genuinely sought to right the wrongs of the past, then there exists the theoretical possibility of the Grudges being repaid in means other than blood.
 
Fingers crossed that assuming the grudges of K8P are wiped out they may go through the books and wipe out some of the ones levied against humans that can no longer be collected.
 
BoneyM said:
That disintegration is not what is required to repay the Grudges, that's what's required for them to become nullified instead of inherited. If the Horned Rat 'died' but the Under-Empire kept on being the Under-Empire, then it would retain all the Grudges. If the Under-Empire shattered but the largest piece of it continued in the same way as the old Under-Empire did, it would inherit the Grudges.

If the Horned Rat died, all the Council of Thirteen were removed from power, and the Under-Empire underwent a legitimate and unquestionable cultural transformation and genuinely sought to right the wrongs of the past, then there exists the theoretical possibility of the Grudges being repaid in means other than blood.
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Sounds like we need a perfect 100 on all of the 10d100 just to make the very start of this idea of this possible. Probably better chances to just kill them all. I never liked the Rats anyway.

Still patiently waiting on what the coming shitstorm is going to be.
 
veekie said:
Somewhat open to the idea of founding, expanding(where it would not put the Karak at risk) and maintaining a Great Library in Mathilde's name, and ensuring its accessibility. It's reasonably IC, its not something Belegar would normally do, it'd benefit the Karak in trade and regional importance and if we guarantee common access to it, we could even put Ranald on the door and watch the Verenans freak.
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It would probably have to be fee-paying, books are just to valuable and expensive in this time period.

but the fee could be very fair.
 
taovkool said:
Sounds like we need a perfect 100 on all of the 10d100 just to make the very start of this idea of this possible. Probably better chances to just kill them all. I never liked the Rats anyway.
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Pretty sure that's frowned upon...

There are solutions to the Skaven, most of which do start with removing the Horned Rat. The rest just take time.
 
taovkool said:
Sounds like we need a perfect 100 on all of the 10d100 just to make the very start of this idea of this possible. Probably better chances to just kill them all. I never liked the Rats anyway.

Still patiently waiting on what the coming shitstorm is going to be.
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Hmm? What coming storm? This should be an off turn, unless something weird and bad happens in the rest of the year.
Jyn Ryvia said:
It would probably have to be fee-paying, books are just to valuable and expensive in this time period.

but the fee could be very fair.
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Maybe it could accept Colleges favor? Those guys have the best magical books, and a favor income means that we can turn around and exchange visitor dues for enchantments, occasionally.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Pretty sure that's frowned upon...

There are solutions to the Skaven, most of which do start with removing the Horned Rat. The rest just take time.
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Uh, yeah. I probably should stop encouraging genocide. Forgot my lesson there. Never, never go full genocide. No matter how reasonable you might think it was.

As for removing the Horned Rat, well, that's a lot harder than you might think. I mean, killing a God is practically unheard of in Warhammer except for that one time Slaanesh fucked over the Eldar pantheons. How in the world are we supposed to kill the Horned Rat?
 
taovkool said:
As for removing the Horned Rat, well, that's a lot harder than you might think. I mean, killing a God is practically unheard of in Warhammer except for that one time Slaanesh fucked over the Eldar pantheons. How in the world are we supposed to kill the Horned Rat?
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Wrong universe for that.

As for the how I have no idea.

My best guess would be to convince the Skaven en mass that they no longer need the Rat, which it is theorised the Rat is itself terrified of.
 
taovkool said:
Uh, yeah. I probably should stop encouraging genocide. Forgot my lesson there. Never, never go full genocide. No matter how reasonable you might think it was.

As for removing the Horned Rat, well, that's a lot harder than you might think. I mean, killing a God is practically unheard of in Warhammer except for that one time Slaanesh fucked over the Eldar pantheons. How in the world are we supposed to kill the Horned Rat?
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We aren't, its beyond the scope of the quest.
 
We could do Alexandria library fee. A copy of every book yo have on you, produced at the libraries expense. There would be the expectation of bringing new books when asking for entrance.
 
taovkool said:
As for removing the Horned Rat, well, that's a lot harder than you might think. I mean, killing a God is practically unheard of in Warhammer except for that one time Slaanesh fucked over the Eldar pantheons. How in the world are we supposed to kill the Horned Rat?
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I think Nagash killed a few? Certainly in the End Times.

Which doesn't exactly make things easier for us.
 
chocolote12 said:
Hmm? What coming storm? This should be an off turn, unless something weird and bad happens in the rest of the year.
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I meant after this entire mess with Karak Eight Peaks. Because you just know there's always something.

Wouldn't be a fun quest otherwise.
Doomed Wombat said:
My best guess would be to convince the Skaven en mass that they no longer need the Rat, which it is theorised the Rat is itself terrified of.
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The Horned Rat's afraid of the Skaven betraying him. That actually made way too much sense. Backstabbing bastards.
 
taovkool said:
The Horned Rat's afraid of the Skaven betraying him. That actually made way too much sense. Backstabbing bastards.
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Especially since if they ever realised it they could almost certainly do it.

Presumably, a god that nobody believes in and fuels will die, and if there's any species that can crowdsource a way to kill a god its the Skaven.

They've got experience in that regard.
 
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