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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I find it more believable that the synergy of death+nuclear metaphor corrupting power is just more potent than shadow + nuclear metaphor corrupting power.

Sure, Ulgu can be potent... if you bend your zeigeist into pretzels or focus specifically on fear of the unknown and uncertainty metaphors, or are a goddamn genius trading spell ranks for ever more convoluted metaphors (like pit of shades). Compared to defiling the border of life and death to get a instant army and fight with your enemies bodies though...

Basically, the dreamer omakes is the only thing that makes sense to get a ulgu dhar lore that is as high impact as necromancy. Even that is no instant army.
 
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picklepikkl said:
Shitty-ass excuse for a patron of humanity. Ranald at least showed up, even if he couldn't/didn't help.
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I keep telling people, Sigmar was a Champion of Tzeentch! The religious persecution of magic users is how the Changer of Ways enforces the dark magic monopoly by preventing the availability of alternatives, a system that worked until Teclis showed up. Look carefully upon the Two-Tailed Comet, and know the truth when you see His Mark for what it is!
Thor's Twin said:
While I don't know much about the Lore of Stealth, I find that there exists a vast disparity of power between the Lore of Stealth and the Lore of Necromancy. Which I find a bit peculiar given that my understanding from this quest and what I can find is that the Lore of Stealth mixes Ulgu and Dhar similar to how the Lore of Necromancy mixes Shyish and Dhar. I understand that Shyish just seems more potent than Ulgu (with the downside of being much more noticeable) but I just don't understand how both lores which seem to mix Dhar with a wind can have such drastic disparities between their power. Or is the Lore of Stealth just Ulgu with some Dhar mixed in while Lore of Necromancy is using Shyish to control and manipulate Dhar?
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I don't know what's actually the case, but my thinking is that the sheer concentration of warpstone in the bodies of the Skaven prevents them from using anything but Dhar, and that the Lore of Stealth is them either trying to force the issue by getting Ulgu magic to go off before the Dhar robs it of the capacity for subtlety that Dhar by itself lacks, or they're using Dhar tongs in order to get access to a more nuanced, specific wind.
 
picklepikkl said:
Shitty-ass excuse for a patron of humanity. Ranald at least showed up, even if he couldn't/didn't help.
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Speaking of gods, I suggest we take Gabriella's advice and start doing nice things for Shallyans.
Funding the Undumgi a proper Shallyan temple for example.
And importing priestesses, from the Empire.

We might need that goodwill in the future, and as a general measure, improving the local health services seems like a smart security measure when dealing with Skaven.
 
uju32 said:
Speaking of gods, I suggest we take Gabriella's advice and start doing nice things for Shallyans.
Funding the Undumgi a proper Shallyan temple for example.
And importing priestesses, from the Empire.

We might need that goodwill in the future, and as a general measure, improving the local health services seems like a smart security measure when dealing with Skaven.
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We don't actually have the authority to do that. It would have been Edda's responsibility; now it's Viceroy Caravello's responsibility. We could suggest it to him, I guess, and offer him private funding for it? But the only reason we're able to open the Ranaldian temple without consulting anyone is because we legally own the site of the Mugging, since we spent the AP to claim it as our own after the Expedition's success.
 
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Ganurath said:
I keep telling people, Sigmar was a Champion of Tzeentch! The religious persecution of magic users is how the Changer of Ways enforces the dark magic monopoly by preventing the availability of alternatives, a system that worked until Teclis showed up. Look carefully upon the Two-Tailed Comet, and know the truth when you see His Mark for what it is!

I don't know what's actually the case, but my thinking is that the sheer concentration of warpstone in the bodies of the Skaven prevents them from using anything but Dhar, and that the Lore of Stealth is them either trying to force the issue by getting Ulgu magic to go off before the Dhar robs it of the capacity for subtlety that Dhar by itself lacks, or they're using Dhar tongs in order to get access to a more nuanced, specific wind.
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There are apparently skaven necromancers...

And given that increasing levels of Dhar corruption doesn't specifically inhibit a necromancer's ability, this specific problem seems unlikely.

I'd also expect Dhar to be able to corrupt any of the Winds equally.
 
picklepikkl said:
We don't actually have the authority to do that. It would have been Edda's responsibility; now it's Viceroy Caravello's responsibility. We could suggest it to him, I guess, and offer him private funding for it? But the only reason we're able to open the Ranaldian temple without consulting anyone is because we legally own the site of the Mugging, since we spent the AP to claim it as our own after the Expedition's success.
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Private funding, naturally.
And possibly EIC help with looking for priestesses willing to relocate.
It might even serve as a selling point to help with getting women to move to K8P.
 
I'm not sure if this has been suggested, but is it possible that the Sorcerer and the Eshin leader are in a relationship? Their home suggests they live together, after all.

Do we need to be worried about a vengeful Eshin Master Assassin with a serious grudge coming after us for destroying his romance novel fairytale ending if we kill the Sorcerer?
 
Alratan said:
I'm not sure if this has been suggested, but is it possible that the Sorcerer and the Eshin leader are in a relationship? Their home suggests they live together, after all.

Do we need to be worried about a vengeful Eshin Master Assassin with a serious grudge coming after us for destroying his romance novel fairytale ending if we kill the Sorcerer?
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Also, given two is war, who is the third member of the menage-a-trois?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Eshin sorceres arent hero characters they are lord tier.
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Ganurath said:
Not in 6E, they aren't. Was a change introduced in later editions?
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They are not present in 7E at all and there isn't a 8E Skaven codex, so 6E is the latest source for them AFAIK. @SuperSonicSound, do you have some later source contradicting it?
Edit: there is also a Sorcerer career in Children of the Horned Rat, but they are comparable to Master Wizards (i.e. Magisters) from the core rulebook (more physical stats, less magical ones), so nothing screaming Lord-tier there.
 
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Alratan said:
I'm not sure if this has been suggested, but is it possible that the Sorcerer and the Eshin leader are in a relationship? Their home suggests they live together, after all.
Do we need to be worried about a vengeful Eshin Master Assassin with a serious grudge coming after us for destroying his romance novel fairytale ending if we kill the Sorcerer?
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Not impossible. Unlikely, given the personality types necessary for success at this tier of Skaven society, but not impossible.
Given that we were not looking to advertise killing the dude anyway, and the presence of an Emperor Dragon killing everything else, the likelihood we get blamed for it is low.

Even lower if we simply vanish the bodies.
IronFist said:
Also, given two is war, who is the third member of the menage-a-trois?
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The room supported two different personalities.
Not three.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
And Wolf and the Coin.

Now it could be said that Wolf and the Coin are fair (or even unfair) split of the 'loot' from specific acts - melting the shrine and scamming Mork - but that's still more than what Sigmar did, particularly since Mathilde is not a priest.
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The Coin was a reward for giving acces to Mork's Divine Energy, it had nothing to do with how many years Mathilde has served.

Meanwhile, Wolf might very well be the reincarnation of Wolf, which would make him not a reward (for us). Also, Wolf is his own living being whose capable of making his own decisions, and thus does not belong to Ranald to give away.
 
I kinda got the impression that we robbed only the Sorcerer's home and it just happened to show both aspects of his life.
As an ascetic master-assassin and a researching mage.

At least that seems like the most likely explanation to me.
 
IronFist said:
Also, given two is war, who is the third member of the menage-a-trois?
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The third member is the love between them. If that love should fall, whoever destroyed it would be vulnerable to attack by the other. Should one of them attack while the love is intact, though, that love would use the opening to strike them, and go straight for the heart. It is an abstract presence, like that of the Horned Rat on the Council of Thirteen.
 
Ganurath said:
The third member is the love between them. If that love should fall, whoever destroyed it would be vulnerable to attack by the other. Should one of them attack while the love is intact, though, that love would use the opening to strike them, and go straight for the heart. It is an abstract presence, like that of the Horned Rat on the Council of Thirteen.
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A magically binding oath that takes a lot of energy to dismantle? Got it! Although there is nothing abstract about it :V
 
So because there is not much to debate on the current vote as it is rather settled or on the Waagh as we know very little about it IC right now besides 'there are a lot of orcs' I thought I would take the peaks one at a time to see what the clean up might look like. I feel this is particularly relevant since people were looking at taking some time away from the Karak so they would give some idea bout the scope and nature of the projects competing with that. So assuming the Waagh does not kill us this is what is our job likely to be:
  1. Under-Citadel: Has Dwarf Vaults, Kragg and Torek's job not ours, the We can clear out any left over traps, since losing Hunters to them is merely an inconvenience not true loss of life
  2. Under-Karagril: This is where we found that non-edibile Moulder Device, might be interesting or useful, but more relevantly adding some magic defenses to keep down the attrition against Karak Drazh is a must.
  3. Under Kvinn-Wyr: River Trolls, straightforward military action to get rid of them, maybe get some battle mages for the job
  4. Kvinn-Wyr: Warpstone Trolls, likely more powerful than their riverine cousins, but with a whole army and time to hire mercs for it I'm confident we can manage it. More relevant is the giant hunk of of warpstone on the top, that may be larger than can be stored safely. For that I think it would be a good idea to have Kragg make a warpstone burner than incinerates the stuff with clean flame through the Rune of Valaia's Vengeance. There is also the possibility that the warpstone is indicative of a blocked up Waystone and in that case it is definitly Mathilde's job to fix it, she probably needs the College course into it
  5. Karag Mhonar/Under-Karag Mhonar: This obviously needs to be cleared from top to bottom to make sure there isn't anything dangerous there that the element either did not recognize as such or could not kill, but I'm confident the rangers can do that, but more relevantly I think we should check if indeed the mountain never fell with the elemental zealously guarding it against the enemies of the dwarfs for 3000 years or as seems more likely to me it woke up at some point and started killing Skaven and Greenskins. Unlikely as the first option might be if it proves true Mhonar is a treasuretrove of intact Golden Age remains
  6. Karag Rhyn/Under-Karag Rhyn: The Rampaging trolls likely took care of any Greenskin traps, the worst we are likely to face there is a fungal infestation, hopefully handling it better than the one in Lhurne, but even at its worst it does not really require Mathilde's aid, though it might be helpful
  7. Karag Yar/Under-Karag Yar: Assuming Mathilde is right about Eshin moving out after it finishes Mors there are still going to be a lot of traps to sweep just to be on the safe side
  8. Under-Karag Zilfin: There are Skyre Skaven yet to kill and we need to figure out some way to vent the poison gasses, Johann is probably going to be very useful here, both as he himself does not need to breathe and if he manages to get that gas mask design functional
  9. Karag Zilfin: There is a Emperor dragon up there we are going to need a proper truce with, probably one of Mathilde's more urgent tasks. Both our connection to a dragon rider and Supreme Patriarch Dragonas are likely to prove useful
  10. Under Caldera: Need to be cleared of traps, otherwise it's fine, rangers can handle it
  11. Trench: We are going to have to garrison this, maybe add some kind of magic early warning system
So there we have it, just the clean up, not research like the AV, the Golem or any other long term projects. Under the circumstances I do not think we are leaving K8P any time soon, though a vacation to elf-land could probably be better justified once we handle the dragon and there aren't any more potentially hostile forces in the Karak.
 
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Even if the most pressing concerns are dealt with we have made K8P a home. I don't see us leaving it permanently in the cards anytime soon.
 
LockedMind said:
Edit: there is also a Sorcerer career in Children of the Horned Rat, but they are comparable to Master Wizards (i.e. Magisters) from the core rulebook (more physical stats, less magical ones), so nothing screaming Lord-tier there.
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The Sorcerer in the Roleplay is Journeyman level in magic, I think. They can proceed from that to become Master and then Lord level wizards.
 
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Ganurath said:
I keep telling people, Sigmar was a Champion of Tzeentch! The religious persecution of magic users is how the Changer of Ways enforces the dark magic monopoly by preventing the availability of alternatives, a system that worked until Teclis showed up. Look carefully upon the Two-Tailed Comet, and know the truth when you see His Mark for what it is!

I don't know what's actually the case, but my thinking is that the sheer concentration of warpstone in the bodies of the Skaven prevents them from using anything but Dhar, and that the Lore of Stealth is them either trying to force the issue by getting Ulgu magic to go off before the Dhar robs it of the capacity for subtlety that Dhar by itself lacks, or they're using Dhar tongs in order to get access to a more nuanced, specific wind.
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Your first half is hilarious, but the second one is amazingly insightful...

I wish I could give an insight and a funny ratting to the same post, but this honestly sounds likely especially considering how Dhar is a "muddled, rotten mess of winds".
 
For what its worth i thought Esin Sorcs were lord characters based on the 6th edition armybook so if you are seeing them as hero tier there then im misremembering things.
 
TimEd said:
Just like our Secret Mansion right? Dang I missed that place.
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Yeah, if we ever did more than, block off all but two doors, dig out eight rooms and fill four of them none of them especially developed.

I mean, I would Love to go back to that place and put into it the time and resources it deserves but a lit more time has been put on our stuff in 8 peaks.

On that note, I vote we visit Stirland and spruce up the Sunken Palace while we check up on... someone I guess, maybe anton?
 
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