They do have a specialist caste of dog sized web-weavers who might be better at it.
What we really need is that Imperial Engineer who invented a steam loom that the Imperial College banned, if that's happened yet, as we have a Radical dwarven engineer to take the idea and run with it.
So, I got curious as to whether Daroir might be a canon character or not and so googled his name, and I found out that it's... well, probably a what do you call it, a nickname or a nom de guerre or something.
"Daroir - Remembrance, memory, the strength of stones"
So we're literally talking to the elf equivalent of M, Q or Agent K or something.
Hard to tell whether that's some Nagarythe institutional or sub-group culture quirk, a personal joke by Daroir to name himself like out of a human's James Bond penny dreadful, him only giving us the first letter of his name for some reason, an actual wider Elf linguistic cultural thing of sometimes giving only a single letter for a code-name like we humans do for some characters (e.g. Men in Black, Death Note) or what.
Now I kinda wish Mathilde had had the pluck to ask him about it, because it's obfuscation or nerd-sniping that's getting through the 4th wall.
But which only did work because I decided to randomly google the name of a newly-introduced and brief character. Great, now I'm going to have to google Hubert's friend' Kereveld's name too... (googles) Oh huh, it is in the wiki. Bartolomi Kereveld. I guess he made it back instead. Makes sense, you go looking for inspiration and examples of what names to use for your characters, and you decide to use some from the wiki if /when possible. Names can be hard to come by and it's not some huge thing, so, yeah, makes sense. And is a neat reference, too. *googles some more* The Burning Shore summary description thing mentions Florin... Wait, Florin? I might actually have this book. *checks* Huh, yes, I do. It's the first book in my The Adventures of Florin and Lorenzo book. Neat.
(There was also an area named Daroir Lacorith in Warhammer Fantasy Online.)
("Daroir Lacorith is a Warhammer Online location which lies in the center most region of the Blighted Isle, a series of mist-shrouded grasslands that lie against mountains to the west and drop into the Swale of Miralei to the east. Ancient High Elf monuments dot the landscape and this otherwise peaceful setting is only interrupted when one looks south; the altitude provides a clear view of the wasteland known as the Plain of Bone, resting place of the Altar of Khaine.")
They do have a specialist caste of dog sized web-weavers who might be better at it.
What we really need is that Imperial Engineer who invented a steam loom that the Imperial College banned, if that's happened yet, as we have a Radical dwarven engineer to take the idea and run with it.
Do we have any chance of Klarak Bronzehammer AKA Dwarf!Tony Stark being in the area and willing to take some leave from foiling Ikit Claw's scheme-matics to visit K8P?
At worst, perhaps we spend the College Favour to bring in a keen Magister to act as our holiday cover with Belegar while on Elven Internship Sabbatical.
Hard to tell whether that's some Nagarythe institutional or sub-group culture quirk, a personal joke by Daroir to name himself like out of a human's James Bond penny dreadful, him only giving us the first letter of his name for some reason, an actual wider Elf linguistic cultural thing of sometimes giving only a single letter for a code-name like we humans do for some characters (e.g. Men in Black, Death Note) or what.
Won't surprise me if, in this quest and BonnyM's take on canon, Ulthan and the Phoenix King does have his own Spy-service/Intelligence Service, many members of which are Shadow Warriors, and Daroir was appointed ambassador partly because Nagarthye were offered political favors, but also because Daroir is running a gigantic Ulthani Spy and influence ring within the Empire, first as a counter-weight to Dawi influence over the Humans, and secondly as a way for Ulthuan to keep close tabs on the Empire, and lastly to counter Druchi subversion of human merchants and aristocrats.
We just spoke to the Elven equivalent of Agent Smith, didn't we?
Armies are hard to change directions on a dime. We can officially make it so that the dwarves can shut the door, and just wait for evening to kill the whole besieging force the first time.
Taking a fortification by storm needs 10 to 1 odds on HUMAN fortifications manned by regular soldiers. Taking a cave fortification like that is this side of impossible, they'd need to deploy an Idol or the like to pound through. And they'd need to march really fast.
So, I got curious as to whether Daroir might be a canon character or not and so googled his name, and I found out that it's... well, probably a what do you call it, a nickname or a nom de guerre or something.
"Daroir - Remembrance, memory, the strength of stones"
So we're literally talking to the elf equivalent of M, Q or Agent K or something.
Hard to tell whether that's some Nagarythe institutional or sub-group culture quirk, a personal joke by Daroir to name himself like out of a human's James Bond penny dreadful, him only giving us the first letter of his name for some reason, an actual wider Elf linguistic cultural thing of sometimes giving only a single letter for a code-name like we humans do for some characters (e.g. Men in Black, Death Note) or what.
Now I kinda wish Mathilde had had the pluck to ask him about it, because it's obfuscation or nerd-sniping that's getting through the 4th wall.
But which only did work because I decided to randomly google the name of a newly-introduced and brief character. Great, now I'm going to have to google Hubert's friend' Kereveld's name too... (googles) Oh huh, it is in the wiki. Bartolomi Kereveld. I guess he made it back instead. Makes sense, you go looking for inspiration and examples of what names to use for your characters, and you decide to use some from the wiki if /when possible. Names can be hard to come by and it's not some huge thing, so, yeah, makes sense. And is a neat reference, too. *googles some more* The Burning Shore summary description thing mentions Florin... Wait, Florin? I might actually have this book. *checks* Huh, yes, I do. It's the first book in my The Adventures of Florin and Lorenzo book. Neat.
(There was also an area named Daroir Lacorith in Warhammer Fantasy Online.)
("Daroir Lacorith is a Warhammer Online location which lies in the center most region of the Blighted Isle, a series of mist-shrouded grasslands that lie against mountains to the west and drop into the Swale of Miralei to the east. Ancient High Elf monuments dot the landscape and this otherwise peaceful setting is only interrupted when one looks south; the altitude provides a clear view of the wasteland known as the Plain of Bone, resting place of the Altar of Khaine.")
Not necessarily. If you go look at that list, you'll see the High Elven name for themselves (Asur) is also there. So it's entirely possible that's just his name. Plus it would fit entirely in the character of the Shadow Warriors if all of them said they were called that except Alith Anar. Who may or may not exist. And may or may not be dead.
Daroir Lacorith as a side note, means memory of glory, or memory of the fear of death.
Won't surprise me if, in this quest and BonnyM's take on canon, Ulthan and the Phoenix King does have his own Spy-service/Intelligence Service, many members of which are Shadow Warriors, and Daroir was appointed ambassador partly because Nagarthye were offered political favors, but also because Daroir is running a gigantic Ulthani Spy and influence ring within the Empire, partly as a counter-weight to Dawi influence over the Humans, and partly as a way for Ulthuan to keep close tabs on the Empire, and partly to counter Druchi subversion of human merchants and aristocrats.
We just spoke to the Elven equivalent of Agent Smith, didn't we?
Not necessarily. If you go look at that list, you'll see the High Elven name for themselves (Asur) is also there. So it's entirely possible that's just his name.
I still feel it might be a bit like the equivalent of a Dwarf named Dawi. Or a name like Dreng, which when we heard about the ranger marshal being named that, people went 'Huh, that's the Dawi word for 'say in combat' and is one letter off from Slayer.' Except perhaps more so, because there's still the issue that with the Khazalid dictionary, it was (mostly) listing actual words; not letters or runes alone. Meaning that somebody being named after that, would at least be getting named after a common word. Whereas Daroir is a letter or rune... it's just the Elf alphabet can have meaning in itself, apparently.
Daroir Lacorith as a side note, means memory of glory, or memory of the fear of death.
Daroir - Remembrance, memory, the strength of stones. Lacoi - Might, glory, fear of death
Seems legit.
I had tried cntrl+f'ing for "rith" or "ith" in that webpage, hoping to find a solution for the "coi" becoming "corith" thing, or a convenient answer for what kind of grammar rules might be for ending things with "rith" or "ith", but didn't really find anything really truly concrete. Ith or rith is used a few times but not enough for me to have been certain it was a true pattern rather than slight coincidence (and I didn't want to go further than one webpage, and couldn't think of a good way too work "rith" or "ith" into a google search because that's way too broad). Was hoping to find a good clue to let me go "Ah, so it might be a way that some nouns or place-names end on" but didn't really find it.
In the end, assuming that yeah using 'Lacoi' is okay and you don't need to find 'Lacorith' or a grammar rule for '-rith' or '-ith' endings, seems to be the way to go.
I still feel it might be a bit like the equivalent of a Dwarf named Dawi. Or a name like Dreng, which when we heard about the ranger marshal being named that, people went 'Huh, that's the Dawi word for 'say in combat' and is one letter off from Slayer.' Except perhaps more so, because there's still the issue that with the Khazalid dictionary, it was (mostly) listing actual words; not letters or runes alone. Meaning that somebody being named after that, would at least be getting named after a common word. Whereas Daroir is a letter or rune... it's just the Elf alphabet can have meaning in itself, apparently.
Daroir - Remembrance, memory, the strength of stones. Lacoi - Might, glory, fear of death
Seems legit.
I had tried cntrl+f'ing for "rith" or "ith" in that webpage, hoping to find a solution for the "coi" becoming "corith" thing, or a convenient answer for what kind of grammar rules might be for ending things with "rith" or "ith", but didn't really find anything really truly concrete. Ith or rith is used a few times but not enough for me to have been certain it was a true pattern rather than slight coincidence (and I didn't want to go further than one webpage, and couldn't think of a good way too work "rith" or "ith" into a google search because that's way too broad). Was hoping to find a good clue to let me go "Ah, so it might be a way that some nouns or place-names end on" but didn't really find it.
In the end, assuming that yeah using 'Lacoi' is okay and you don't need to find 'Lacorith' or a grammar rule for '-rith' or '-ith' endings, seems to be the way to go.
Elvish comes off almost as based on far eastern languages like Chinese and Japanese, where each symbol represents a concept, rather than forming a portion of a word like English does. Of course if it is like that, then we're missing about 4,000 characters. Which would admittedly neatly explain why there are so many names that don't match with the ones we do have (although some do. Eltharion from Elthrai) like Finubar and Teclis and Yvresse. Their naming rules also come off weirdly because you get stuff like Charoi being clearly related to Chrace, but which came first s hard to tell.
For Daroir Lacorith I am making a tad of an assumption, but at the same time the name makes sense for a) being in the Shadowlands and b) viewing the Shrine of Khaine.
It also means we have to be very careful when choosing Apprentices, depending on how the apprentice systems works. If the quality of the Apprentice we get is a matter between choosing whoever is available (not likely to lead to good choices, since the good choices were likely already snapped up by Magisters who patiently monitored potential apprentices ahead of time) , and waiting and monitoring the incoming Apprentices for a few years, it might be actually better to to wait instead.
Alternatively, we can always romance Johann.... he isn't that bad a choice for a husband after all, especially since his diplomacy is so much better than us. I do wonder how marrying a husband made of gold would look like from our vow of poverty, especially if we deliberately channel alot of the fish that leaps into our boat to our husband/house funds.
Also, here's my vote. At this rate, the Redshirt Party is going to make this thread a One-Party Dominant Polity, but in general, this leading vote fits most of my preferences, over 2nd and 3rd place for now.
[X] Plan Redshirt v5 (Different Max Action)
Veekie's plans also work too, if we don't want to give Max a holiday. I do also actually prefer applying the coin on Runecraft collaboration, as opposed to rolling the College Gatcha, given how we likely only get one shot at the Runecraft option. If Veekie's votes are closer to Redshirt, I might drop my approval vote for Redshirt.
At least turn votes haven't become polarized.... yet. The Veekie and Redshirt parties are not too far apart in terms of platform, and in terms of the logic behind their votes.
On the other hand, loot votes have become increasingly polarized, and I have a feeling that hilariously, so too will Social Votes.
It seems that the thread reaches consensus in terms of the most pressing non-task actions often before the turn update is even written so there's not a lot of variation between leading plans.
Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing in general but it does make for smoother voting.
You know, something I've been wondering for a while is whether King Kazador's presence might help Belegar come to terms with his increasingly radical tendencies.
I mean, on paper Kazador looks like a shoe-in for being an ultra-conservative Dwarf that's even more hidebound and fatalistic than Thorgrim. He's from an ancient hold that doesn't even use gunpowder, that is surrounded on pretty much all sides by some of the most hostile territory in warhammer, and that has been essentially cut off from the rest of Dwarven civilization for literal millenia with no sign of that ever being likely to change. And, on a personal level, from what I can tell by his sheet and introduction? Prior to the K8P expedition he'd probably never so much as seen a human from the Empire in person.
Basically, Kazador has a list of traits you'd expect to see on a stereotypical grumbling longbeard who's sure everything is going to go to hell, and yet when he shows up in person? He almost immediately and openly admits that there might something to blackpowder weaponry, finds the new people and races he runs into interesting and seems happy to spend time with them, approaches almost everything with an infectious and jovial cheer, and it turns out he's had so much success keeping his hold clear of enemies he actually forced his throng to learn rock-climbing so they could pursue Orcs into the mountains.
Basically, when it comes to valuing tradition? Kazador doesn't seem to care about it any more than the average Dwarf, and may even consider it less important if his deciding to teach his whole throng rock-climbing is any indication. Having a gloomy and fatalistic attitude? He laughs and enjoys life, and has seen plenty of success protecting his home. Suspicion of and reluctance to accept new ways? He finds new things interesting and fascinating.
Essentially, he's one big living, breathing example to Belegar that yes, he can be a great king without following tradition to the letter, that there's more to Dwarfdom than what Thorgrim thinks, and that there is merit to his own views and decisions.
[X] Plan All-In v2
[X] Plan All-In v3
[X] Plan Kill it with Shadow v6
[X] Plan Redshirt v5 (Max on Jezzails)
[X] Plan Barad-dûr V.2 Skaven Edition.
[X] Plan Redshirt Waagh
I mean, on paper Kazador looks like a shoe-in for being an ultra-conservative Dwarf that's even more hidebound and fatalistic than Thorgrim. He's from an ancient hold that doesn't even use gunpowder, that is surrounded on pretty much all sides by some of the most hostile territory in warhammer, and that has been essentially cut off from the rest of Dwarven civilization for literal millenia with no sign of that ever being likely to change.
Emphasis mine, since I believe it to be a relevant factor to Kazador's attitude. I think the reason Kazador doesn't conform to the traditional ultra-conservative Dwarf is due to the isolation. The rest of the Old Holds get to grumble to each other over the deteriorating state of the Karaz Ankor, while Karak Azul has been insulated from all that by being cut off from the rest of its brethren barring the odd daring gyrocopter. So, the crucial difference is that Kazador is a traditionalist of a different stripe to that of the rest of the Karaz Ankor, on account of his hold developing its own culture over the centuries it's been apart from the rest.
You know, something I've been wondering for a while is whether King Kazador's presence might help Belegar come to terms with his increasingly radical tendencies.
I mean, on paper Kazador looks like a shoe-in for being an ultra-conservative Dwarf that's even more hidebound and fatalistic than Thorgrim. He's from an ancient hold that doesn't even use gunpowder, that is surrounded on pretty much all sides by some of the most hostile territory in warhammer, and that has been essentially cut off from the rest of Dwarven civilization for literal millenia with no sign of that ever being likely to change. And, on a personal level, from what I can tell by his sheet and introduction? Prior to the K8P expedition he'd probably never so much as seen a human from the Empire in person.
Basically, Kazador has a list of traits you'd expect to see on a stereotypical grumbling longbeard who's sure everything is going to go to hell, and yet when he shows up in person? He almost immediately and openly admits that there might something to blackpowder weaponry, finds the new people and races he runs into interesting and seems happy to spend time with them, approaches almost everything with an infectious and jovial cheer, and it turns out he's had so much success keeping his hold clear of enemies he actually forced his throng to learn rock-climbing so they could pursue Orcs into the mountains.
Basically, when it comes to valuing tradition? Kazador doesn't seem to care about it any more than the average Dwarf, and may even consider it less important if his deciding to teach his whole throng rock-climbing is any indication. Having a gloomy and fatalistic attitude? He laughs and enjoys life, and has seen plenty of success protecting his home. Suspicion of and reluctance to accept new ways? He finds new things interesting and fascinating.
Essentially, he's one big living, breathing example to Belegar that yes, he can be a great king without following tradition to the letter, that there's more to Dwarfdom than what Thorgrim thinks, and that there is merit to his own views and decisions.
I think the consensus is that splitting the dwarves in two factions is kind of incorrect, and there are in fact three factions - "radical", "reactionary" and "traditional".
The reactionary faction likes to believe that they are traditional, when they are, in fact, not, as demonstrated by Kragg, Kazador and the entirety of Karag Azul, who are too traditional for the radical-reactionary split. The reactionaries glorify the past that never was. The traditionals ARE that past, and they significantly differ from the reactionary idealised version.
Well, at least that is what I read as consensus the last time we tried to talk about this.
Essentially, he's one big living, breathing example to Belegar that yes, he can be a great king without following tradition to the letter, that there's more to Dwarfdom than what Thorgrim thinks, and that there is merit to his own views and decisions.
Thorgrim isn't so much against new stuff as he is fatalistic. He's willing to try new stuff which is why he has a ton of gyrocopters but operates under the presumption that he can't really reverse the decline of the Karaz Ankor so he might as well put the worst enemies of the Dawi down first before the wheels come off completely so to speak.
Belegar's expedition is basically running counter to that premise by default.
The stress Belegar is under seems to stem from the fact that he can only make the reconquest of K8P work by going full on unconventional to a greater extent and from a very different angle than even the most radical of radicals.
Like the single most impactful person to conquering K8P is a human wizard who got results by magic assassination, mugging gods and other magical shenanigans and then proceeded to advise Belegar to do utterly bizarre stuff like adopting a hivemind of spiders or obliquely helping enemies.
And what's simultaneously good and bad is that the wizardly way is working and it is in fact working so well that the reconquest of K8P has been a relatively simple and straightforward affair due to the unusual policies adopted.
I think the consensus is that splitting the dwarves in two factions is kind of incorrect, and there are in fact three faction - "radical", "reactionary" and "traditional".
The reactionary faction likes to believe that they are traditional, when they are, in fact, not, as demonstrated by Kragg, Kazador and the entirety of Karag Azul, who are too traditional for the radical-reactionary split. The reactionaries glorify the past that never was. The traditionals ARE that past, and they significantly differ from the reactionary idealised version.
I think Karak Azul may be a special case entirely.
The Azuli have little in the way of reference points. They've been mostly cut off from the rest of the world since before they were born, and so I figure much of their enthusiasm is that whatever the state of the world is now, it's got to be pretty good by default, when compared with being cut off. If, say, all the halflings were dead, Karak Azul would never have missed them.
Also, they're getting to skip past the ugly phase of innovation, and go straight to finished product. They probably never heard of the early experiments with (for example) gunpowder that exploded and killed a dozen engineers, and then the prototype guns that blew up and killed the soldiers using them, and so on, which would have been a long slow painful process in the Dwarfholds working on it. Instead, the Azuli show up and are handed the well-firing end result of centuries of testing.
By the way, I expect that Karaz Ankor will be experiencing some more political turbulence due to reconnection of Karak Azul.
Previously, true traditionalists were few, far between and not particulary talkative (see Krag) and thus easily ignored.
Enter Karak Azul.
An entire Karak of very traditional dwarves who, by common belief, should be paragons of classical tradititonalism, but are, in fact, not, and not shy about it. Oh, and they will actively and visibly go to other karaks for trade and marriage prospects (remember the enormous amount of Kazador's unwed progeny hitting the unsuspecting Karaz Ankor? That is the vanguard of traditionalism against conservatism).
The dwarves themselves are not yet aware that there are not two, but three factions, but soon they will learn.
I think Karak Azul may be a special case entirely.
The Azuli have little in the way of reference points. They've been mostly cut off from the rest of the world since before they were born, and so I figure much of their enthusiasm is that whatever the state of the world is now, it's got to be pretty good by default, when compared with being cut off. If, say, all the halflings were dead, Karak Azul would never have missed them.
Also, they're getting to skip past the ugly phase of innovation, and go straight to finished product. They probably never heard of the early experiments with (for example) gunpowder that exploded and killed a dozen engineers, and then the prototype guns that blew up and killed the soldiers using them, and so on, which would have been a long slow painful process in the Dwarfholds working on it. Instead, the Azuli show up and are handed the well-firing end result of centuries of testing.
I'd agree with you if not for Kragg. He is considered ultratraditionalist, and yet in practice his views seem to have remarkably much in common with Kazador's. Indeed, previously true traditionalists were lemited to a handful of extremely old dwarves who were just grumbling at everyone equally, but things will sharply change.
I'd agree with you if not for Kragg. He is considered ultratraditionalist, and yet in practice his views seem to have remarkably much in common with Kazador's. Indeed, previously true traditionalists were lemited to a handful of extremely old dwarves who were just grumbling at everyone equally, but things will sharply change.
Kragg disapproves deeply of what is going on. But he disapproves of the dwindling of the dwarfs far more. Basically, if K8P was retaken via traditional methods, he would be far more content. But he is willing to let it go if it gets results as astonishing as this expedition was. I just think its important not to forget that.