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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Alectai said:
I wouldn't go that far, if he turns out to be a Big Name, they're going to be inclined to make good on that even beyond the intel squeezing. You want a chance to study for a season at the Tower of Saphery? that's the kind of thing that opens the door to that
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That's a huge assumption and not liable to happen unless we just stopped an imminent plot on Ulthuan. Which is unlikely.

My point is- elves do not talk about their civil war. Full stop. If the Empire wants any intelligence on Naggaroth, it's Black Arks, and the Witch King's whims we need to hold on to this guy. He gives intelligence, and he's a piece we can potentially use to suss more out of the cracks if he's half as important as you say. The Screaming Towers prove the Empire loves information that leads them lead Destro factions into an ambush.

The fact he's likely a corsair just makes this an even bigger deal. Imagine the Imperials peeling the standard Dark Elf slaving play book out of him. Their go to tactics, how they prioritize, what force they go in, their modus operandi. All things that are hard to tell looking at a sacked village after the fact but incredibly useful in preventing them.
 
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"Last outside part I had left, except for the head, which, yeah. 'Don't gild your head until you can take on arbitrary amounts of hungry peasants' is what they say. And wow did Dwarf gold make it easier
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If the quality of gold means anything to the Gold Order in their work this could be not just a source of significant wealth, but an arcane resource to Johann.

And we certainly aren't hurting for material wealth.
 
So I've been thinking about that 'druids are a degenerate arcane tradition theory' and I figgured I might as well post it here for you guys to see. A lot of this is based on speculation but the logic chain itself is I think solid.

Arcane Beginnings
So to start off it is said the Old Ones could not interact with anyone but the Slann Mage priests because their presence would fry the brains of anyone else. I find this highly dubious. Anyone with their mastery of magic and arcane technology should be able to build avatars that do not melt the humans' wee brains. Whether they would want to well that is where the speculation comes in. We know humans were scraped as a project for being too mutable and vulnerable to Chaos but that does not exclude some teaching in magic so they could be of some use, after all the elves got training. So let's say the Old Ones taught the humans how to use Ghyan and Ghur, two of the most forgiving lores of magic and then they vanished, leaving these primitive humans as the wisemen and shamans of their communities.

Age of the Beast
What followed the Second Great Chaos Incursion was broadly speaking the darkest age in the history of the world bar none, but it was far worst for mankind, Beastmen infested the forests, mutation ran rampant and countless tribes fell to the worship of the Ruinous Powers, a lot of that early lore would become corrupted and some of it would be muddled, in the rush to get apprentices trained to the standard to at least give some help to the tribe. There simply was not any time to be perfect, just good enough. This is where I think that most favored of human mental crutches showed up, anthropomorphism. The abstract winds of Ghyan and Ghur got given names, their whims assigned purpose and will. And in the warp two gods begin gestating.

Age of Migration
At some point a few centuries before the birth of Sigmar bronze wielding warlike tribes migrate from the east over the world's end mountains. Their friendship with the dwarfs and craft of smithing meager though it be by later standards allows them to conquer the forest dwellers of what would become the Old World. Cultural sincretism happens with gods being slotted into the same pantheon, we see this all the times in historical pantheon with the most well known example being the Asir/Vanir divine in Norse mith. Now the question is what happens to the remains of the arcane tradition, the people casting almost-Ghyan and almost-Ghur.

Settlement
The newcomers have the tools and the numbers to start settling, not just in seasonal camps but proper longhouses allowing them to far more and actually claim territories, pushing back the forests. The most valued skills in such a strife filled time are those of war, not for nothing are their chiefs the most skillful and inspiring leaders. Now if one is a life Druid in this time with your powers mostly focused on growth and fertility you are going to spend most of your time int he fields surrounded by Ghyan and doing 'womanly things' hence the goddess Rhya and her mostly subordinate role. But if you are a Ghur druid, well you can take your tame bear out of the woods and sick him on your enemies in battle and that is a respectable warrior skill right there, but with that skill comes political power that separates you from the wild places of the world. You start leaning less on Ghur and more on the divine powers of the nascent Taal, in some palces King of the Gods and in others subordinate to Ulric, dependent on if the proverbial bear ate the warrior chief or got an axe burried in its skull when the priests and the warrior aristocracy had it out for influence.

Age of Rediscovery
Now as to what Teclis found. The same forces that reshaped Ghur druids into priests of Taal would turn the druids into priests of Rhyaa, divine magic is just safer and more human-friendly with those who kept to the old ways hunted down as witches and dangers to the community when they would not get with the program, but the process of much slower, so Teclis found a lot more Ghyan lore out in the countryside than Ghur lore which is why the Jade Order is so heavily influenced by the ancient druids
 
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DarkLight140 said:
it (preceding word is an action)
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It's also applied to nouns to indicate small or trivial. Dwarves insist this isn't confusing.

Seleucus said:
Silly question: why can't we hand over the Druchii to the Dwarves? Presumably they have plenty of history in dealing with elf captives (and would rather like to keep him rather than handing him to Other Elgi)
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They'll take him off your hands but they're not likely to be especially grateful for it unless he's personally responsible for some Grudge or another.
 
So the Skaven is like, likely to get us tremendous rep hit from literally everyone, maybe put our reasoning of the last vote in doubt with Belegar, get us what will essentially be either slave or guinea pig which yikes, or the Skaven will shank us in the back or run away with intel or thousands of other things that could go wrong with, you know, trying to interact with Skaven in nonhostile manner. But otoh we could make friend with skaven. Maybe he is one of those very rare ones that actually know the concept of loyalty. I just don ´t know.

DocMatoi said:
why?
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Because none of the order races knows it and it would make spying on Skaven actually useful because now you can understand their documents and stuff.
 
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dunk1010 said:
Can we trust him to not... well, teach us incorrectly?

Or better yet, do you think we are good enough to torture the right information out of the Druchii?
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It would be an amusing Nagash parallel, and if we were planning to go full necromancer/umbramancer, I'd be all for it. As it is...I want him well away from us, and getting Mathilde noticed by the high elves is something that could be very useful for our snake juice experiments. Plus, getting to interact with high elves as the human who wrote Asarnil's memoir and is now at least 40% dwarf by volume sounds hilarious.
 
First, an out-of-place and suspected Naggarothi Elf. He seemed to be a guest or a partner of Clan Moulder, which raises all sorts of questions. You should be able to interrogate him, as Druhir and Eltharin are said to be mutually intelligible, but you're not entirely confident of your ability to usefully interrogate one of the Druchii. You're also not sure if he speaks Queekish or if the Skaven spoke Druhir.
[ ] ELF: Extradite him to Ulthuan. (+???)

Elf Favor? But Ulthuan has little lack of Drucchi intelligence.
Drucchi working with Skaven is new though.
And importantly, the Asur know how to interrogate a dark elf.

[ ] ELF: Ransom him to Naggaroth. (+wealth?)

A big nope personally.

[ ] ELF: Send him to the Emperor's Spymaster for questioning. (+???)
[ ] ELF: Send him to the Grey College for questioning. (+College favour)

SLIGHTLY inclined to send him to our Imperial masters. Not sure which one though. Would be novel to send him to the Emperor's Spymaster, but Grey College also means we're more likely to get something back, since I don't think we're going to be getting much out of Drucchi with human interrogation techniques, and I think Mindhole is probably useful for rerolling failures there.
Still, low odds though.

[ ] ELF: Claim him.

Too busy. Pass.

[ ] ELF: Cede him.

Johann doesn't particularly want him either no?


Second, a Skaven that spoke Khazalid. He promised to serve you, and though you don't trust his word you trust your ability to intimidate, and through the shared language you might be able to piece together Queekish - as well as question him for any other knowledge he might have.
[ ] SKAVEN: Send him to the Grey College for questioning. (+College favour)

Less risk of Eshin disappearing him if we ship him out, better chances of a useful Queekish lexicon.

[ ] SKAVEN: Hand him over to the Dwarves for questioning. (+Dwarf favour)

I suspect we won't get as much out of him. He'd KNOW the dwarves will kill him.

[ ] SKAVEN: Claim him.

We're the most likely to get the most cooperation out of him, but noting that delays are apt to see Eshin Accident clean him up.

[ ] SKAVEN: Cede him.

Fuck no.


Your third live capture, a litter of wolf-rat pups. They're inquisitive and playful, and happily eat just about anything. Johann seems quite taken with them. Looking through your eyes, Wolf seems very confused.
[ ] PUPS: Sell them to the Imperial Zoo. (+wealth)
[ ] PUPS: Send them to the Amber College. (+College favour)
[ ] PUPS: Claim them.
[ ] PUPS: Cede them.

Easy one. Johann wants puppers. Johann gets puppers


Your fourth subject, also disturbingly living, a sample of some sort of ooze that was either growing in or being used as a Moulder surgeon's waste bin. It clings to anything that prods it, and if it's biological and doesn't put up a fight, it digests it.
[ ] OOZE: Destroy it.
[ ] OOZE: Sell it to the Imperial Zoo. (+wealth)
[ ] OOZE: Send it to any College that will take it. (+College favour?)
[ ] OOZE: Claim it.
[ ] OOZE: Cede it.

I'm kind of curious about this, but AP Hell.
Thoughts?
I'm leaning towards mailing it to the Colleges so they can study it, but the Zoo is fine too if we need wealth.


The fifth is simple: a Rune-axe that causes Kragg to double take, stare at it intently, and then grab it and beeline towards his workshop, muttering thoughtfully. The only real question is who gets the credit.
[ ] AXE: Split it.
[ ] AXE: Claim it.
[ ] AXE: Cede it.

We got plenty of dwarf favor, I'm okay with any of these. Favor is good, but not unique.


The sixth is a strange one - a book on the anatomy of Chaos Dwarves. The Queekish is untranslated, but the many extremely detailed diagrams speak for themselves. Little is known about the Chaos Dwarves, but they are unquestionably enemies of both the Empire and the Karaz Ankor.
[ ] BOOK: Sell it to the Imperial Army. (+wealth)
[ ] BOOK: Send it to the Colleges. (+College favour)
[ ] BOOK: Hand it over to the Dwarves. (Dwarf favour)
[ ] BOOK: Claim it.
[ ] BOOK: Cede it.

This one I think we should pair with the Skaven, if we're keeping the skaven to interrogate, they can translate the resource ourselves. Personally. Claim.


And finally, a chest of Lustrian gold. Exact valuation will require assaying, but you estimate about two thousand coins and Johann placed them at about 75% purity.
[ ] GOLD: Split it.
[ ] GOLD: Claim it.
[ ] GOLD: Cede it.

Open to Cede or Split.

I'm inclined to a professional relationship, so I want even split on Claim/Split:

[ ] Plan Book And Rat Even Split
-[ ] ELF: Extradite him to Ulthuan. (+???)
-[ ] SKAVEN: Claim him.
-[ ] PUPS: Cede them.
-[ ] OOZE: Sell it to the Imperial Zoo. (+wealth)
-[ ] AXE: Split it.
-[ ] BOOK: Claim it.
-[ ] GOLD: Cede it.

I'm flexible on most of the items, as long as we nab the book and Skaven
 
We are the grey wizard that is mostly responsible for overseeing secrets and trying to ensure other wizards doesn't get in over their head, Johnson and other ducklings will know about ratman information beyond the basics due to location; so it is best overall if Mathilda become the go to translator for all rat related things.
 
pucflek said:
So the Skaven is like, likely to get us tremendous rep hit from literally everyone, maybe put our reasoning of the last vote in doubt with Belegar, get us what will essentially be either slave or guinea pig which yikes, or the Skaven will shank us in the back or run away with intel or thousands of other things that could go wrong with, you know, trying to interact with Skaven in nonhostile manner. But otoh we could make friend with skaven. Maybe he is one of those very rare ones that actually know the concept of loyalty. I just don ´t know.


Because none of the order races knows it and it would make spying on Skaven actually useful because now you can understand their documents and stuff.
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No, I do not want to make the skaven a "Friend" in any way.

Before he wakes up, he is going to be in a box with the lock and door fused shut with the best we can afford.

That said, I believe that learning Queekish, the secret language of the Skaven, is an amazing prize and well worth a lot of risk. Especially for us, as we are currently going to be spending a lot of time spying on the ratthings, so being able to understand what they say will be invaluable.
 
I want to keep the elf.

Let us continue the "great and noble" tradition of the worlds most powerful and influential human magic users forcing useful info out of dumbass dark elves :D
 
Poor Max, getting robbed of priceless life experiences. And poor cannoneers, too.
Glad he worked it out with Johann, though. It was foreshadowed in the previous update, with how both of them were present at the Duckling Club, and Max wasn't sniping at him.

I agree with the decision to cede the Lustrian gold to Johann. We need it less, it makes him grateful which we can use down the line and exotic gold is implied to be a magical resource for the Gold College which makes it more valuable to him than us.
 
pucflek said:
So the Skaven is like, likely to get us tremendous rep hit from literally everyone, maybe put our reasoning of the last vote in doubt with Belegar, get us what will essentially be either slave or guinea pig which yikes, or the Skaven will shank us in the back or run away with intel or thousands of other things that could go wrong with, you know, trying to interact with Skaven in nonhostile manner. But otoh we could make friend with skaven. Maybe he is one of those very rare ones that actually know the concept of loyalty. I just don ´t know.
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I'm pretty sure that Mathilde's handling of the skaven won't make her take a rep hit, because dwarfs understand the concepts of interrogation and keeping your enemies alive to learn things from them, and she can basically lock him in an inescapable dwarf-built prison hole, then tell him that he will only get food in his hole on days that he teaches her something useful.

We can always critfail interrogation rolls, which could result in things like believing that it's possible to make a friend out of a skaven, but short of that we should be fine.
 
-[ ] ELF: Send him to the Grey College for questioning. (+College favour)
-[ ] ELF: Extradite him to Ulthuan. (+???)

If we aren't gonna send him to Ulthuan, then he should go to the college. Dark Elf/Moulder potential cooperation is something the empire would need to know about, and our College are the best interrogators who are inducted into the conspiracy of Silence. The majority of them speak elf as well, which the imperial interrogator might not.

-[ ] SKAVEN: Claim him.

Learn Queekish, write paper/book on queekish language, kill the skaven, redeem for massive points.

-[ ] PUPS: Cede them.

I see no issue, as they aren't full skaven.

-[ ] OOZE: Claim it.

The biological equivalent to our Aether Vitae? Who knows? We should understand it before we move on from it though, no need for the imperial zoo to have a sudden influx of rats.

-[ ] AXE: Split it.

We both found it, we both get credit.

-[ ] BOOK: Hand it over to the Dwarves. (Dwarf favour)

A more concrete understanding of their wayward cousins will help Belebro, especially when we remember that they currently rule the lands to our direct East.

-[ ] GOLD: Cede it.

We don't need money right now.
 
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