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So... a really weird thought here. The Elixir used to make vampires turns their souls into a vortex of Dhar, yes?
Would it be possible to do the same with Quyash, or pure warpstuff like snekjuice?

Granted, that's mad science on a level that the SKAVEN would balk at, but damnit I'm going to have to make an omake about it, aren't I?
 
Well chances that we get found out are a hell of a lot more likely if we actively use that crap, so that isn't a valid reason.
I think the most use people are suggesting is second secret as a lastvresort ootion and limited lab tests to see what second secret is capable of (the warpstone question). Nobody but Omegahugger suggests more.
 
So we are agreed that if Mathilde theoretically wants to learn to dhar she has the tools needed to do so without any personal direct repercussions? (excluding social consequences and dhar exposure to those around us)
Yes(though looking at it a good point is raised that the simple act of using Dhar is a pretty fraught choice even if the grooves is taken care of), though this is completely distinct from my complete lack of willingness on my part to use it for what are pretty obvious reasons.

(As previously mentioned, I don't think its high enough on the priority pole and my original intent with the Liber Mortis was "Learn general magic theory and Nehekhara tid bits" and I want to stick to that intent.)

Nor do I equate the theoretical capability to meaning it'd ever actually be the right thing to do.



@Kornet on the apprentice thing to more fully outline my thoughts:

I want to hmm...

A while back I was talking about this topic with other folks, you might have been part of it, I don't really recall. And what I said then was that I liked the idea better when Mathilde had more seasoning. Not in the sense of being older, but instead in the sense of completed Arcs and adventures.

She's a Jedi Knight, an Inquisitor, a somewhat experienced and famous Sidereal field agent, she's getting there in being an experienced Grey Magister and can now sit at the big table and swap the Really Fun Stories. I want that last bit to be more than what it is. Which in our current trajectory involves making Karak Eight Peaks more secure and could mean finishing the reclamation. I know my own feelings well enough to call that criteria pretty flexible.

After that criteria passes and I feel like the story has progressed enough I'd be happy with seeking one.

On the next important point she's finished reading the Book which means she can foist it onto the colleges via secure untraceable dead drop, which is my preferred option, just a tiny bit over "seal it up in a special strong room". With that the apprentice pick is a lot more safe for them.


There is also another two possibilities which change this outlook: A Grey Journeyer coming to K8P, in which case we might actually pick them up as a sort of Master-Apprentice thing. They'd have a lot to learn from Mathilde and I'd be pretty keen on passing on her experiment, partly as an experiment to see if some of the stuff she's learned is possible to pass on.

The other option is if a Grey pops up in Karag Nar. This one holds the most interest to me. If this happens I am fully willing to take them up and teach them above and beyond Mathilde's best, putting 110% into it because from my perspective its basically serendipitous fate and a really neat twist. A Master who may not have the seasoning I'm talking about being thrust into this situation with an innocent child is very compelling because its a great way to develop a different sort of seasoning and context.
 
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That's not a reason to go all the way.
But it is a reason to say 'pull the other one' when someone argues Dhar is forbidden and will get us censured. Shit will have to go FUBAR before touching Dhar is even remotely a good idea- but I find hiding behind the Articles disingenuous and cowardly considering we've already trans
Human heuristics are human heuristics. You cannot be trained out of being human. Furthermore, we can see Mathilde think in pretty much every update, and none of them bear out this idea.
What? We see Mathilde overthinking her interactions and examining interactions with others in a jaded light all the time. It's part of why she's bad with people in the spur of the moment.

And the fact when Mathilde was doing something that might compromise her judgement she made precautions and spaced out her reading over literal years. I absolutely think Mathilde can handle limited Dhar use over literal year time spans with precautions. Because Fred did at least that much in far worse circumstances casting far more with Dhar over a far longer period of time.
 
So... a really weird thought here. The Elixir used to make vampires turns their souls into a vortex of Dhar, yes?
Would it be possible to do the same with Quyash, or pure warpstuff like snekjuice?
Quyash vortex is... not going be a vortex; you just can't mash shit together and expect for anything other than Dhar to happen.

High Magic-derived Elixir of Immortality is most likely closer to a finely tuned clockwork machine, and infinitively harder to make because of that. At our current understanding of what is possible, I do not reject it as a flatly impossible goal for us only because Snekjuice might be the way to cut enough corners to get it simple enough where a Learning 40/50ish human/Nagash equivalent might actually manage it.

Otherwise, it is that sort of stuff Slaan and Old Ones could have gotten up to, if they had any interest/weren't all dead/left the world.
 
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[+] The Wizards of Karak Eight Peaks (locked in)
[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
[X] Karak Hirn, to satisfy your curiosity about Prince Ulthar.
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] The Amber College, to see how your donation of Lustrian eggs is going.
[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.

[X] A bathtub, an even better place for reading.

I thought it up, how can I NOT vote for it?
 
[X] Loremaster: Expert on weaving

[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] The Amber College, to see how your donation of Lustrian eggs is going.
[X] Check in on your fief in Stirland.

[X] A bathtub, an even better place for reading.
 
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I see a lot of people voting for Kazrik and Edda together, or Roswita and Roswita (book) together, and that just seems kind of wasteful.
I'm voting for both Roswita social bits because I specifically want to double-down on having the Elector-Countess firmly on our side. Think of it as consolidating a win and ensuring we have a a hand in how her reaction to mages develops.
 
[X] Hluodwica, the shepherd of lost and confused souls. And there's nobody more confused than a human wizard in the halfling section of a dwarven Karak.
"What's a wizard gotta do to score some halfling pie around here?" "...Are you coming on to me, miss?" "N- M- ... No?"

@BoneyM is okay?

EDIT:
Also,
[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.
[X] Titus Muggins, who's returned to farming with every avenue of attack defended.
[X] Francesco Caravello, proud leader of the Undumgi
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart, as the new home of the Winter Wolves takes shape.
[X] Karak Hirn, to satisfy your curiousity about Prince Ulthar.
[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.
[X] The dwarfs who helped us with the dragon skull. Buy them some drinks.
 
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I think the most use people are suggesting is second secret as a lastvresort ootion and limited lab tests to see what second secret is capable of (the warpstone question). Nobody but Omegahugger suggests more.
I doubt it works on Warpstone. Frederick would have tried it, and Sylvania would be even more of a blasted wasteland if it did.
Like, he detailed his entire war effort against the Skaven. If he could blow up their main thing at will, it would have come up once or twice.

We also don't need to know if it works on Warpstone. Regardless of if it does, we can try it if the situation ever becomes dire enough. The only reason I can see for practicing is if we want to make it a part of our regular arsenal against the Skaven. Which I don't.
 
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I'm voting for both Roswita social bits because I specifically want to double-down on having the Elector-Countess firmly on our side. Think of it as consolidating a win and ensuring we have a a hand in how her reaction to mages develops.

Pretty sure we're told there was no mechanical benefit to the social turn it's purely emotional connections for the player base.
 
Quyash vortex is... not going be a vortex; you just can't mash shit together and expect for anything other than Dhar to happen.

High Magic-derived Elixir of Immortality is most likely closer to a finely tuned clockwork machine, and infinitively harder to make because of that. I do not reject it as a flatly impossible goal for us only because Snekjuice might be the way to cut enough corners to get it simple enough where a Learning 40/50ish human/Nagash equivalent might actually manage it.

thinking about it, Snekjuice reacts to other winds... if she drank snekjuice, it would just react to the Uglu in her body/soul and she'd ascend into something like Eris out of Sindbad: Legend of the Seven Seas... more daemon than human, or a pocket god, perhaps Ranald's mail-order waifu...
A creature of awesome power, made of smoke and mirrors and with a complexion that shifts and whisps like cream in coffee.
Edit: Sorry, but I cannot and will not ever NOT love what the animators did with that character. Eris was astounding when I first saw her and still is now.
 
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I'm voting for both Roswita social bits because I specifically want to double-down on having the Elector-Countess firmly on our side. Think of it as consolidating a win and ensuring we have a a hand in how her reaction to mages develops.
That's fine then. Although we gave her a new Runefang, personally saved her life several times, and single-handedly turned the war around. I think she's as firmly in our camp as she'll ever get. But as ever, your vote is up to you.
 
thinking about it, Snekjuice reacts to other winds... if she drank snekjuice, it would just react to the Uglu in her body/soul and she'd ascend into something like Eris out of Sindbad: Legend of the Seven Seas... more daemon than human, or a pocket god, perhaps Ranald's mail-order waifu...
A creature of awesome power, made of smoke and mirrors and with a complexion that shifts and whisps like cream in coffee.
Pretty sure she'd explode.
 
thinking about it, Snekjuice reacts to other winds... if she drank snekjuice, it would just react to the Uglu in her body/soul and she'd ascend into something like Eris out of Sindbad: Legend of the Seven Seas... more daemon than human, or a pocket god, perhaps Ranald's mail-order waifu...
A creature of awesome power, made of smoke and mirrors and with a complexion that shifts and whisps like cream in coffee.
I think she'd just die, honestly.
 
Also the main reason to learn to use Ulgu tongs, so we can pull a Gandalf and be a wielder of the Sacred flame. I mean come on. Who doesn't want to finish rounding off the Gandalf milestones.
 
Yea pretty much, you interested in the idea of trying to manipulate another wind with Ulgu tongs and seeing if it's feasible to do so with out creating dhar? We know the winds of magic do interact with each other in the wild with out forming dhar so it must be in theory possible.
@SuperSonicSound its below poking the coin and Ranald on my priority list(which is itself below the Vitae) but I'd be happy if it won a research vote.
 
I am entirely unconvinced that the idea that "tongs" protect the mind has any validity to it at all.

However I have managed to develop this hypothesis of what the entire thought-process that originated that idea might have been:
  1. Necromancy is using Shyish tongs to manipulate Dhar
  2. Therefore it's mentally messing with Shyish and not Dhar
  3. Necromancers only go insane because of physical effects of Dhar
  4. We have anti-Dhar belt and are therefore immune to consequences
Now the issue is that there are massive logic-jumps and assumptions inbetween and within those points.

Which in turn makes me question whether people are willingly ignoring the blatant flaws in such a reasoning or am I just wrong and that wasn't the thought-process at all.
 
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I doubt it works on Warpstone. Frederick would have tried it, and Sylvania would be even more of a blasted wasteland if it did.

We also don't need to know if it works on Warpstone. Regardless of if it does, we can try it if the situation ever becomes dire enough. The only reason I can see for practicing is if we want to make it a part of our regular arsenal against the Skaven. Which I don't.
I mean, i could see some use out of knowing a bit more on how it works re: warpstone just from a "knowing where the boundaries of 'is this dire enough to warrant the Second Secret' and 'would the SS actually make this any better' are" perspective...but personally thats far less important than the fact that i know 100% that it would just get used by the pro-dhar usage voter base to argue for more and more edge cases, and as someone for whom 'second secret as a holy shit button in only the most extreme and clear circumstances, and maybe the smallest of tests thereof just to find out the boundaries' is the Hard Red Line I Don't Want To Cross...yeah, no. We already have enough of that debate, even leaving aside any arguments on the facts, its not something i want to read, so i will vote against it and anything that will lead to it
 
I am entirely unconvinced that the idea that "tongs" protect the mind has any validity to it at all.

However I have managed to develop this hypothesis of what the entire thought-process that originated that idea might have been:
  1. Necromancy is using Shyish tongs to manipulate Dhar
  2. Therefore it's messing with Shyish and not Dhar
  3. Necromancers only go insane because of phisical effects of Dhar
  4. We have anti-Dhar belt and are therefore immune to consequences
Now the issue is that there are massive logic-jumps and assumptions inbetween those points .

Which in turn makes me question whether people are willingly ignoring the blatant flaws in such a reasoning or am I just wrong and that wasn't the thought-process at all.
Not for me no.

I mean, i could see some use out of knowing a bit more on how it works re: warpstone just from a "knowing where the boundaries of 'is this dire enough to warrant the Second Secret' and 'would the SS actually make this any better' are" perspective...but personally thats far less important than the fact that i know 100% that it would just get used by the pro-dhar usage voter base to argue for more and more edge cases, and as someone for whom 'second secret as a holy shit button in only the most extreme and clear circumstances, and maybe the smallest of tests thereof just to find out the boundaries' is the Hard Red Line I Don't Want To Cross...yeah, no. We already have enough of that debate, even leaving aside any arguments on the facts, its not something i want to read, so i will vote against it and anything that will lead to it
Basically where I am.
 
perhaps Ranald's mail-order waifu...
He's taken, by the healer goddess. That spot has been filled.
Now the issue is that there are massive logic-jumps and assumptions inbetween those points .

Which in turn makes me question whether people are willingly ignoring the blatant flaws in such a reasoning or am I just wrong and that wasn't the thought-process at all.
Well, their soul is also seared from the inside out every time they mess up and it touches them directly, because in practice only Van Hal managed a 100% no mistakes ratio, but what do you think is wrong with it specifically?
 
I mean, i could see some use out of knowing a bit more on how it works re: warpstone just from a "knowing where the boundaries of 'is this dire enough to warrant the Second Secret' and 'would the SS actually make this any better' are" perspective...but personally thats far less important than the fact that i know 100% that it would just get used by the pro-dhar usage voter base to argue for more and more edge cases, and as someone for whom 'second secret as a holy shit button in only the most extreme and clear circumstances, and maybe the smallest of tests thereof just to find out the boundaries' is the Hard Red Line I Don't Want To Cross...yeah, no. We already have enough of that debate, even leaving aside any arguments on the facts, its not something i want to read, so i will vote against it and anything that will lead to it

I'm sympathetic to this view my self, but there's like 5 actual voters for that in a voterbase of 200. There's literally no risk of this being an issue.
 
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