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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Anyway, all the talk about using Dhar 'safely' runs into the fact that we breach Article Seven the instant we use it.

Therefore, we don't use it. Only the Second Secret is permissable, and that only in the face of a potentially Empire-ending threat that's vulnerable to it that all other measures have failed at. That's likely the only circumstance that doesn't leave us being called Black Magister afterwards.
 
Night said:
"How do I combat my own biases?" is an extremely fraught question that mostly ends up at "you don't, you just justify them to yourself better." without external help which is kind of contraindicated in regards to Dhar for multiple reasons.
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Except Mathilde went to lengths to ensure the environment she read the Liber Mortis was as positive and homey as possible. You can absolutely predispose yourself against negative thoughts and sentiments. Positive reinforcement is a thing, and Mathilde has literally been trained and tested to question her own motives and loyalties given she's spent years as a Grey Wizard. Her self awareness is entirely different from you or I and Dhar mental grooves would by their very nature be a very slow and gradual process.
 
Alectai said:
Anyway, all the talk about using Dhar 'safely' runs into the fact that we breach Article Seven the instant we use it.

Therefore, we don't use it. Only the Second Secret is permissable, and that only in the face of a potentially Empire-ending threat that's vulnerable to it that all other measures have failed at. That's likely the only circumstance that doesn't leave us being called Black Magister afterwards.
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We've also already breached the Articles in all but name. Your argument rings a lot more hollow when we would be executed for what we've already done if anyone knew. Full stop. All our good deeds? Ash in the wind of our pyre. Make an argument about how it might make hiding our efforts harder, but let's not use the Articles as a shield while ignoring the fact we've betrayed the trust of every other Imperial Wizard through our actions.
 
I am just plain uninterested in Necromancy. Likewise, uninterested in attempts to cheat our way into safely practicing necromancy. The argumentation might be sound or not, I don't really care.

I got everything I wanted and expected from Liber Mortis.

Talk about Ulgu Tongs interests me only insofar as the potential of inventing dual-wind not-dhar lores goes, and that takes a distant second place to snekjuice and Theurgy, two massive revolutionary hyper-projects that we already sunk time and effort into.
 
I see a lot of people voting for Kazrik and Edda together, or Roswita and Roswita (book) together, and that just seems kind of wasteful.
 
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.

EDIT:
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.

Prefer this to the book as otherwise we basically get her over the worst of her fear when it comes to magic and immedietly drop dozens of battle wizards on her head.
 
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[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Wilhelmina, to see how she's going when she's not a terrifying financial juggernaut.
[X] Check in on your fief in Stirland.
[X] Canopy bed, except skull instead of canopy.
[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping
 
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[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping

[X] Kragg the Grim, who you could likely convince to start gloating.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.

[X] The best reading chair ever.
[X] A bathtub, an even better place for reading.
 
Prospalz said:
Talk about Ulgu Tongs interests me only insofar as the potential of inventing dual-wind not-dhar lores goes, and that takes a distant second place to snekjuice and Theurgy, two massive revolutionary hyper-projects that we already sunk time and effort into.
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I think they're all potentially linked tbh but I can see that. I'm still going to push for Ulgu tongs attempts on manipulating another wind, if we prove it's possible to do with out creating dhar then we can write a paper on it and have the other colleges of magic get to work on the idea, might be an idea to see if Kragg would be willing to make another talisman with the dhar eating rune but that's iffy I guess.
 
Prospalz said:
Talk about Ulgu Tongs interests me only insofar as the potential of inventing dual-wind not-dhar lores goes, and that takes a distant second place to snekjuice and Theurgy, two massive revolutionary hyper-projects that we already sunk time and effort into.
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I want to try using Ulgu Tongs on the snake juice, with snake juice being to the ulgu as Dhar is to Shyish in Necromancy.

SuperSonicSound said:
I think they're all potentially linked tbh but I can see that. I'm still going to push for Ulgu tongs attempts on manipulating another wind, if we prove it's possible to do with out creating dhar then we can write a paper on it and have the other colleges of magic get to work on the idea, might be an idea to see if Kragg would be willing to make another talisman with the dhar eating rune but that's iffy I guess.
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The precedent of Alchemy suggests to me that we'd need to use an additional insulating medium between the two Winds.
 
Going to work soon, so a quick poke at options and then the catchup.

[ ] Loremaster: Expert on Forest Spiders

Best at dealing with their biological needs.
Worst at dealing with their mental needs. The Amberlings explicitly said that they have more in common with ants and bees than with spiders psychologically.

[ ] Loremaster: Expert on weaving

Best at having them produce even more valuable silk.
However, a weaving expert is going to have basically no basis for understanding how hivemind spiders would tick, it'd be a hard education.

[ ] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping

Best at understanding their psychology, and with regard to bees, extracting wax and honey from their hives without harming sustainability is a major forus.
However, its not like they actually have a precedent for this, so take the mental advantage with a spoonful of salt.

Social wise...just hitting the highlights
[ ] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).

Talabecland is on the verge of a Grudgin. I want to check that out.
Also I think they'd appreciate it if we told them about the avenged grudge early.


[ ] Roswita, as she tries to wrap her head around the influx of Battle Wizards.
[ ] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.

I want one of these. The question is whether we should focus on the good old times with Abelhelm or with helping her digest the idea of a lot of highly energetic wizards showing up.
Presumably we'd let her know either way, but the focus is important.

[ ] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.

I'm madly curious.


[ ] The Amber College, to see how your donation of Lustrian eggs is going.
[ ] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.
[ ] Wilhelmina, to see how she's going when she's not a terrifying financial juggernaut.

I'm not sure any of these need urgent tending to, so pass.

[ ] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.

Its been niggling at us OOC, and his our only unaccounted for old friend


[ ] Check in on the Gong Farmers and the Niter Factory.

PROBABLY fine. Probably.

[ ] Check in on your fief in Stirland.

I think the steward should have finished working through the buildlist we gave him. Lets give him a new list.
We don't need to spend much on it, just let them know we got an eye on things.

Besides, taking a short detour while we're in Stirland makes sense. We're hardly going to make a special trip for this.

[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping

[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.
[X] Try to find Kasmir in Sylvania.
[X] Check in on your fief in Stirland.

[X] The best reading chair ever.


And finally. Skull Throne!
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Ulgu tongs shields mind.
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Except it doesn't. Because you're referring to a physical shield for our mind. Not a mental one from the fact, you know, necromancy, the great evil, the one we have a huge personal experience with unlike Chaos, one of the ultimate taboos, let's just break it. There are cognizant reasons not to ever use Dhar as a tool, starting with the fact it requires thinking of Dhar as a tool.

Solving your problems with Primordial Evil is its own slope that doesn't require it to have any kind of active influence over you. It just has to actually work and get you used to that idea. The fact the Primordial Evil is also immensely powerful as we've been repeatedly told is also an issue in that vein.

Karugus said:
Her self awareness is entirely different from you or I
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Human heuristics are human heuristics. You cannot be trained out of being human. Furthermore, we can see Mathilde think in pretty much every update, and none of them bear out this idea.
 
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[X] Loremaster: Expert on beekeeping

[X] Princess Edda, to pry for details about her illicit romance with Prince Kazrik.
[X] Karak Kadrin, presenting them with the skull of an old enemy (but not to keep).
[X] Karak Hirn, to satisfy your curiousity about Prince Ulthar.
[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.
[X] Anton, to see how his firearm factory is going.

[X] On display in the Duckling Club.
 
Alratan said:
The precedent of Alchemy suggests to me that we'd need to use an additional insulating medium between the two Winds.
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You're ultimately probably right, but I still think it's worth looking into, it's the kind of research that just can't be tried with out having Kraggs belt to work from in the first place to be able to safely devise what ever technique is needed.
 
Karugus said:
We've also already breached the Articles in all but name. Your argument rings a lot more hollow when we would be executed for what we've already done if anyone knew. Full stop. All our good deeds? Ash in the wind of our pyre. Make an argument about how it might make hiding our efforts harder, but let's not use the Articles as a shield while ignoring the fact we've betrayed the trust of every other Imperial Wizard through our actions.
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That's not a reason to go all the way.
 
Alectai said:
Anyway, all the talk about using Dhar 'safely' runs into the fact that we breach Article Seven the instant we use it.

Therefore, we don't use it. Only the Second Secret is permissable, and that only in the face of a potentially Empire-ending threat that's vulnerable to it that all other measures have failed at. That's likely the only circumstance that doesn't leave us being called Black Magister afterwards.
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If anyone finds out.

And we already are at constant risk of being declared black magister is we are found out to posess, or have possessed at some point, Liber Mortis.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
What question do you think you're actually answering here? because the bare facts are what Quest asserted, that's not about motivation or desire. It's simply a statement of the facts if you think he's wrong you'd have to explain why, simple fear of that statement of facts being correct and therefore opening pandoras box in some way is utterly unjustified.

no one is crazy enough to want to be a necromancer or run around using Dhar. We're safe from it our allies aren't, however the facts of the matter do enable other lines of research which weren't possible before which could have pretty far ranging consequences.
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The wording may be on one thing, but I have enough experience to see it being used as a step towards actual application. Intentionally or not.

Kornet said:
If anyone finds out.

And we already are at constant risk of being declared black magister is we are found out to posess, or have possessed at some point, Liber Mortis.
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Well chances that we get found out are a hell of a lot more likely if we actively use that crap, so that isn't a valid reason.
 
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[X] Francesco Caravello, proud leader of the Undumgi

We've interacted with him the least among the nominal human leaders, might as well make up for that now with another big push coming. Plus he has a cat.

[X] Roswita, to present her with a copy of the book her late father contributed to.

A carrot to go with the bigger carrot of hauling her ass out of the fire and the more uncomfortable vegetable (probably zuchinni) that is gaining the 'support' of a pack of Battle Mages with zero restrictions.

[X] Empress 'Heidi', to see if you can snatch a private moment to speak honestly with her.

Is there any way this is NOT the top pick? Because I'm not seeing one.

[X] Wilhelmina, to see how she's going when she's not a terrifying financial juggernaut.

She's our SL with the most harried personal life it seems, and currently trying to juggle a massive corporation with an even more massive expansion and NOT starting hostilities with her late boss' brat and her nominal Lord. She's got a lot on her plate, and Mathilda is pretty much her only peer to vent with (Anton being too delicate and innocent to expose his ears to such).

[X] Check in on your fief in Stirland.

I really doubt anything of note has happened, but we might as well try to live up to our responsibilities as a liege Lord while gallivanting around Stirland.

[X] Build it into the entrance to the Penthouse.

Greatest exposure = Maximum smugness.
 
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NotteBoy97 said:
The thread in general since it seems like whenever someone says anything about using dhar being a bad idea someone always seems to respond with "but actually. .." or something.
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Yea but they're doing that because they feel the basic facts and context of our situation are being ignored. I don't want to use necromancy because it's not the story I want to read, but we have all the defences and knowledge in place to do so in a way that has no personal consequences for us unless we're caught. The danger is sociological and to our allies, not to us.

Which is all the reason I need to not want to do it.

The fact that we've essentially been given the WoG regarding how Fredrick got fucked up.

BoneyM said:
Frederick's predictions and Vlad's notes indicate that it's the Dhar exposure that did it, and that there's no practical way to use Necromancy on a large scale without suffering from Dhar exposure.
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That is was Dhar exposure and not the Shyish tongs mindset that screwed him, tells me we have some potent potential options with regards to research dual wind lores, or potentially mono wind lores via remote manipulation. One of the things we could genuinely have to our name thanks to Kraggs belt is "First stable human wizard to ever use two winds of magic" Granted we'd be using the 2nd one via Ulgu if it's possible but that'd be legititmately pretty fucking cool and if we can devise a method that does so and doesn't create Dhar incidentally.

Well there's wizard lord right there. That keeps the great deed open for us to open a branch of the colleges of magic here.
 
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