No fossil fuels is quest canon by that point, though.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Norway
I am skeptical of dragons having significantly evolved, rather than bursting forth in more or less their current shape thanks to some bad decisions among the (Slann/Elves/Chaos/whoever).
It would require at least partial deconstruction, and doing so for the purposes of secular study instead of maintenance as part of the holy task of feeding the hungry is forbidden.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
To my knowledge no.
Their main steam things are their gyrocopters and their ironsides.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Halfling gods, don't actually exist iirc.
That'd be impressive as dragons predate the coming of the old ones that created the Slann.
They are halflings, they can't use magic divine or arcane, in fact I'd say it's doubtful they have enouigh of a warp-presence for Esmerelda to exist in the Aethyr.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
Reverse engineering a thing usually involves taking it apart completely and examining what every part does along the way, amongst many other things and possible variations.
Can't really figure out how its boiler works if its stuck behind three dozen pipes you need to pop the chasiss armoring off to get at after removing over a thousand different bolts.
So, not sure if this has come up before, but...
I don't really get how the whole 'ancient irreplaceable steam tank' thing is supposed to work.
Any kind of combat vehicle, and especially a pre-industrial steam tank, is going to go through gobs of spare parts and maintenance man-hours.
If people are able to use them in combat at all, rather than just keeping them as curiosities locked in vaults, surely they'd have to understand enough about how they work to make replacement parts and keep the things from exploding in use.
And if they know those things, shouldn't they be able to build new ones? Even if they don't understand the principles behind why they work, they should be able to ape the existing, functioning examples. Perhaps not as good in practise, depending on the special secret forging techniques Old World Da-Vinci used, but something.
An edit:
That is, I understand the trope of 'unique ancient masterwork handed down through the years', but while I can buy that for magic swords etc. it really shouldn't work with technology.
I don't really get how the whole 'ancient irreplaceable steam tank' thing is supposed to work.
Any kind of combat vehicle, and especially a pre-industrial steam tank, is going to go through gobs of spare parts and maintenance man-hours.
If people are able to use them in combat at all, rather than just keeping them as curiosities locked in vaults, surely they'd have to understand enough about how they work to make replacement parts and keep the things from exploding in use.
And if they know those things, shouldn't they be able to build new ones? Even if they don't understand the principles behind why they work, they should be able to ape the existing, functioning examples. Perhaps not as good in practise, depending on the special secret forging techniques Old World Da-Vinci used, but something.
An edit:
That is, I understand the trope of 'unique ancient masterwork handed down through the years', but while I can buy that for magic swords etc. it really shouldn't work with technology.
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Part of the reason the mystery boxes might not be so tempting is that there's already a very large backlog of tempting stuff to do so there seems to be less drive to acquire more at the moment.
Did Mathilde finish reading the Liber Mortis btw?
It might be a great chance to acquire theurgy but I doubt it is the biggest chance.
Who is to say a few years from now a top Wizard Lord tier Mathilde won't be able to tackle Silver Peak or poke at the Tomb Kings directly?
- Location
- some computer lab
[X] Proof of the 'College of Necromancy'.
[X] Books on Shyish and death gods.
[X] Dragonbone.
voting proof bacause that is what we were here for, and Books because it could be anything. it could even be a Box!
[X] Books on Shyish and death gods.
[X] Dragonbone.
voting proof bacause that is what we were here for, and Books because it could be anything. it could even be a Box!
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*imagines talking to Settra himself about the Mortuary cult in trade for killing a lot of his enemies*
When her study of the Liber Mortis is complete, it will very specifically say so in the update in question.
- Location
- Cara Fahd
A bit late, but well, my timezone isn't the same, so...
Boney, why would the old timers of your quest take the mystery boxes? Or the Bone? Those are action sinks when there is always more and more and more to do every turn.
Let's review the options:
[ ] Dragonbone.
Nice and all, but it would be a research subject and an action sink. Optimistically, it could be dropped on someone to make an artefact or whatever at no action cost, but there is likely to also be a faction of voters that wants to do science to it that will muddle things. So, probably a multi turn project.
[ ] Gold and jewels.
Mat is already filthy rich and has a good salary, so it's worthless.
[ ] Proof of the 'College of Necromancy'.
Reward is kinda meh, but its only requirement is to just drop it in Altdorf and ramifications aren't likely to result in any more actions demanded.
[ ] Detailed trade ledgers.
Reward already described in the update and requirement to get everything is simply getting Roswita's witch hunter to Mat, scream "It's Sigmartag", throw the ledgers at him and watch the pyres go up. There, done. Straightforward and no action involved to benefit from it.
[ ] Books on Necromancy and the Undead.
Research subject and thus action sink.
[ ] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
Research subject and thus action sink.
[ ] Books on Shyish and death gods.
Research subject and thus action sink.
Moreover there is the risk that there are traps set up inside the books, like the ones you mentioned one could find in the different copies of the Liber Mortis, which means either risks or more work to make them safe and thus actions. Additionally, those are dangerous and/or involved subjects, so they can't be dropped on the minions and would have to be researched by Mat herself.
We have only 6 actions per turn without overwork and our focus is on K8P. Vampire or necro infestations are unlikely in those parts, so all the Sylvanian shiny mystery boxes will likely gather dust in a corner while we deal with the latest K8P problems and maybe be taken care of in a few years like the Snake Juice. Between glorified trophies and easy to access rewards, the choice is easy.
This quest's mechanics simply don't favor mystery boxes, since mystery boxes simply mean more work. I like the fact that in this quest the actions we take result in more actions or developments in relation to said actions, it's nice and interesting and make everything we do make me feel like they matter and could result in mini-quests or adventures, but there is already a lot to do without adding actions irrelevant to our current activities and only 6 actions per turn.
Aegon Targaryen
Dragonking of Fuyuki
- Location
- Romania
If any of the other races named there united, a united humanity wouldn't be able to defeat them. Cause terrible casualties, yes. Defeating a Great Beastman Herd(best name I could find for a Herd containing all Beastmen), a WAAGH! containing all greenskin in the Old World (not even counting those in the Darklands), The United Skaven Race (which has shown extreme power the few times it united), the Karaz Ankor (this one might actually be in a way possible, if it doesn't imply sieging and conquering the Holds), Ulthuan (Yeah no), Naggaroth (I don't think this one would be possible either) or the Lizardmen (less possible than if you combined the other ones) would be utterly impossible. Humanity is mighty, aye, especially so when united, but it is, nonetheless, the most junior race on Mallus and the least powerful when it is not aided. Nehekhara is not counted here, because if Nehekhara counted on Humanity's side then most of those victories would become at least possible, if not probable.
Unity is not necessarily humanity's greatest strength as much as their enemies' disunity is.
And no, I am not implying that humanity should just roll over. It is when you fight against those greater than you and win that you show true worth.
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They know enough to perform maintenance by rote, but have no clue why it works or how to build a new one.
[X] Proof of the 'College of Necromancy'.
[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
[X] Books on Shyish and death gods.
[X] Books on Vampires and Dhar.
[X] Books on Shyish and death gods.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
ITs entirely possible they just rote make replacements which they do really rarely since they almost never use them.
Ninja'd
I mean realistically we can only point to the old world for what a united humanity looks like, since we know so little about Cathay, Ind and Nippon etc. and whether or not they'd change the balace.
I agree mind, but united old world is the best we can really go for at this stage.
- Location
- Earth
You're being a bit out there. None of this is odd.
Were you there for any of the talk about the Books of Nagash? In setting, Books on Dark Magic being full of traps and tricks to fuck up those without a master is standard. False information, actual spells built in, all of this is Cannon as far as I know. The Liber Mortis discussion mentioned in multiple places, including in the QM's own words, that what makes the Liber Mortis so exceptional is that it has none of the traps that were build into the Books of Nagashs over the years. That Vlad helped Van Hal avoid all the traps.
There is no: it has to be obvious. Or, it's safe for us because so and so. You can make magic safer. You cannot make it safe. Not for humans. Do not conflate the two.
The QM said point blank, I'll have to roll. You get to speculate about the crit options, like the Theurgy books from Nekhara.
So does the other side. So do I. On a crit fail, we could get Soul Traps and calling down the wrath of a dead civilisations upon us.
It fits the setting and the circumstances, from trap spells to knowledge that man was not meant to have. Stuff that corrupts just by knowing it. Or attracts the attention of darker things. Maybe all our gear protects us. But you cannot, I repeat, cannot, guarntee it. Safer, not safe.
And that's the simple truth.
As for the ledgers? Could they be trapped? Not likely, and certanlly not to the same degree. Certanlly possible, but those need to be accessed for daily work, not only by students of magic taken into the confidence of the Colledge. As well, all they cover is gold, not secrets of magic. Way less valuable, way less protected.
So stop it with the false narative and personal accusations. A gamble is a gamble. And to repeat:
A gamble with Dark Magic Books taken from Dark Magic Vampire Lord is a foolish one to take. Both in Character, and out.
That you want it anyway, is your choice. But stop attacking other people because you don't like their arguments.
Magic isn't safe for humans. Nor for Mat. You can make it safer, not safe. Never safe. The end of that discussion.
Stop conflating the possibilities presented on a bad roll, as saying "QM gave trap option".
QM gave a gamble. Roll high, Win. Roll low, Lose.
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Aegon Targaryen
Dragonking of Fuyuki
- Location
- Romania
The only one we know for sure even Cathayan/Nipponese intervention wouldn't change is attracting the wrath of the Lizardmen by directly attacking Lustria.
- Location
- Cardassia Prime
Just how secure is our library anyway? Just not from casual persusing, but if someone with sufficient magical talent/knowledge was looking if Mathilde had something she wasn't supposed to have?
- Location
- Australia
Isn't the Grandmaster Engineer of Zhufbar Gotri? Hence why it's murky as to whether he was allowed to share Anton engineering secrets.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
Uh, no. Gotri is simply a part of it.
The Zhufbar Engineering Guild is very much not radical, unlike Gotri.
Its murky for him to share secrets due to the oaths all Dwarven engineers take.
Sufficiently.
He's a Master Engineer from Zhufbar, and by default the Grandmaster Engineer of Karak Eight Peaks.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
okay this made me giggle lots.
Sufficiently for a Dwarf is going to be hilarious.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Pretty much nothing would change the result of anyone the lizardmen were able to full power at that isn't chaos itself
mmm
My thoughts on this kinda mirror Teclis's to an extent.
That while yes the Dwarves and the Elves are the elder races now it won't always be the case that we are their junior. Both sides got a massive boost thanks to their age, and being given innate advantages compared to humans, but Teclis thinks that we'll look behind the glamour and judge the elves as they deserve to be judged and frankly they do deserve to be judged harshly.
Just look at the nightmare of the war of the beard where their pride basically doomed the world to the crap state it is in today because our "elders" went to war over something relatively tiny and broke themselves. Malekieth may have lit the flame, but it was elven pride to not tell the dwarves about him and then Caledor II's arrogance to not admit wrong doing that caused the conflagration there.
And as Teclis says we don't suffer from the maddnesses that plague both dwarves and elves. We don't get their obsessions, their stubbornesses their mental inflexibilities at least not the same same extent. Obviously we still can, but you know.
Teclis himself can't concieve of humans really going beyond the elves and infairness its a rather up in the air dream, but I'd certainly say that we're barely starting where as the Dwarves and Elves reached a height they likely will never reach again, at least not in any reasonable time frame, when we simply move faster than them.
They're high high above us on sheer mountains, they got given climbing gear, supplies and training, but they've fallen off and broken their backs.
We've been given none of those advantages, and we frequently fall off, but we get back up, heal up and start hauling ourselves up fast again.
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