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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I mean honestly I don't think there are any actions that can aid in moving, which is why in my own plan ( Plan Talk to me Baby (Spider), currently 7 total votes) I put the gamblers coin on that. If we're really looking for that to succeed I think that's the only possible alteration to make to any plan.
 
@Quest Your specific argument was that Boney will interpret the plan according to the thread's intent, which is obviously just infiltration, and not explosive shenanigans at all. Now that we find out that it's not that clear, it is prudent to concede that specific argument and maybe note for the future that what's clear to you might not be clear to, say, the author of the original statement or the thread in its entirety.
 
BoneyM said:
If you've got specific goals and synergies in mind, I'd advise using a word more specific than 'poke'.
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You know, poke them. Walk right up to one invisibly and boop it on the snoot.

ctulhuslp said:
Yeah, so basically, I, personally, do not buy the very same action being at the same time "cause havoc within Skaven" and "steal their shit with Johann", @veekie . And only the former can actually help Spiderfriends, unless we luck out and steal something rare/irreplaceable, like Doomwheel or whatnot.
(how would we even lug it around? Doubt Substance can cover the entire thing)

edit: and former may or may not provoke Mors into striking back, and I'd rather not do that while Dwarfs are not fully established just yet. We'll go make some hell once dwarfs tell us they are ready to stab all Skaven that may come rushing in response.
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Sir.

Sir, please.

The term is "spooder frens."
 
Humbaba said:
I'm slightly concerned that the Liber Mortis contains secrets no priest/disciple of Morr should ever put to paper means what we'd be sharing would be easily identified by a morrite priest (when the inevitably arrive) as something Mathilde definitely shouldn't have been told by anyone.
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They'll be sealed inside an impossible to open dwarven tomb by then.
 
ctulhuslp said:
edit: and former may or may not provoke Mors into striking back, and I'd rather not do that while Dwarfs are not fully established just yet. We'll go make some hell once dwarfs tell us they are ready to stab all Skaven that may come rushing in response.
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How would Clan Mors know that something that looks like a Clan Eshin Sorcerer, walks like a Clan Eshin sorcerer, and casts spells like a Clan Eshin sorcerer is actually part of the famously non-spellcasting dwarf force above their heads?
 
@DarkLight140, I am fine with a change to the plan.

I would prefer Max to investigate the webs or teach the Spiders Reikspiel, but autopsies are okay, too. (Studying materials seems more fitting for a Gold Wizard than studying cadavers.)
 
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@BoneyM is it permissible to put a conditional in the vite to say that Mathilde focuses on investigation/theft unless the spiders become under too much pressure, at which she progressively focuses more on disruption until their situation is resolved?
 
Alratan said:
How would Clan Mors know that something that looks like a Clan Eshin Sorcerer, walks like a Clan Eshin sorcerer, and casts spells like a Clan Eshin sorcerer is actually part of the famously non-spellcasting dwarf force above their heads?
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Because, while they are incredibly backstabby, Skaven are in fact devilishly smart/cunning?
They are the single civilization of setting which is in broadly industrial age. As a species, they may well be more intelligent than humans.

We can hardly plan around assuming they will be too dumb to consider the option or investigate.
 
Reliable_2IC said:
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
-[X][Max] Current Task: Have Maximilian teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[X][Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[X][EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X][Social] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X][Penthouse] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X][Free] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, assist him with human burial rites.
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Write in: You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Help Johann poke Clan Mors
-[X] The Gambler: Poke Clan Mors

[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
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This vote appears to be screwing up the vote tally.
 
Gingganz said:
@DarkLight140, I am fine with a change to the plan.

I would prefer Max to investigate the webs or teach the Spiders Reikspiel, but autopsies are okay, too. (Studying materials seems more fitting for a Good Wizard than studying cadavers.)
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Thanks for the feedback, but I don't actually see you voting for Magical Mathilde in the tally. Are you just expressing an opinion regardless, or is it failing to catch your vote properly?
 
ctulhuslp said:
Because, while they are incredibly backstabby, Skaven are in fact devilishly smart/cunning?
They are the single civilization of setting which is in broadly industrial age. As a species, they may well be more intelligent than humans.

We can hardly plan around assuming they will be too dumb to consider the option or investigate.
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And the dwarves are both famously slow to adapt and famous for not having any spellcasters. Clan Mors has two options:

1) Something literally unprecedented has happened, and the dwarves have sent in a mysterious magical assassin to infiltrate them and dishonourably murder and sabotage them using classic skaven doctrine.
2) Something absolutely normal has happened, and another clan has sent in a Clan Eshin sorcerer to infiltrate them and dishonourably murder and sabotage them using classic skaven doctrine.

Given that they're already at war with at least two Great Clans that are fully capable of hiring Clan Eshin to undermine them, why would they jump to the first conclusion? Particularly as Clan Mors may never have met a human, let alone a Grey Magister.

Being smart doesn't stop you being wrong, indeed it may make it harder to admit you're wrong.
 
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I still fail to see the synergy. The sabotage only works if the skaven respond in some way, which is only one way of the relocate option failing and not a particular likely one in my opinion. It's a conditional synergy that is only really likely in case of a failure on the option that it needs success to synergize with.

Like the most likely way for the skaven to respond to the spiders, if if we botch a couple of rolls on the Johann actions and draw their attention, currently they're mostly focus on the other three fronts they have to deal with and unlikely to turn and pour resources after a minor nuisance. And if the Skaven don't respond sabotaging doesn't actually help the spiders much; remember their hunting habits are oriented around ambush strategies, not open battle, so they're more likely to avoid conflict with skaven carrying heavy weapons like ratling guns or warpfire throwers.

The more likely failure points for relocating are in not being able to find a good enough location, or in finding a location that's say... unstable. Or the We simply misunderstands what we mean and ends up elsewhere. None of those failure points have been mitigated. It's just... really weak synergy.
 
Alratan said:
And the dwarves are both famously slow to adapt and famous for not having any spellcasters. Clan Mors has two options:

1) Something literally unprecedented has happened, and the dwarves have sent in a mysterious magical assassin to infiltrate them and dishonourably murder and sabotage them using classic skaven doctrine.
2) Something absolutely normal has happened, and another clan has sent in a Clan Eshin sorcerer to infiltrate them and dishonourably murder and sabotage them using classic skaven doctrine.

Given that they're already at war with at least two Great Clans that are fully capable of hiring Clan Eshin to undermine them, why would they jump to the first conclusion.
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Depends on whether they had any observers up above who could look at the events and seen several wizards within dwarf army.

I am not sure banking on literally zero rats observing battle for Citadel, for example, is the best idea.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Depends on whether they had any observers up above who could look at the events and seen several wizards within dwarf army.

I am not sure banking on literally zero rats observing battle for Citadel, for example, is the best idea.
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I mean, for the battle of the Citadel, all anyone would have seen was a flash of light or two from a window, and then orcs getting wrecked by humans.

I might be recalling incorrectly, but I was under the impression that Skaven sorcerers are very rare.
 
CuttleFish2.0 said:
I still fail to see the synergy. The sabotage only works if the skaven respond in some way, which is only one way of the relocate option failing and not a particular likely one in my opinion. It's a conditional synergy that is only really likely in case of a failure on the option that it needs success to synergize with.

Like the most likely way for the skaven to respond to the spiders, if if we botch a couple of rolls on the Johann actions and draw their attention, currently they're mostly focus on the other three fronts they have to deal with and unlikely to turn and pour resources after a minor nuisance. And if the Skaven don't respond sabotaging doesn't actually help the spiders much; remember their hunting habits are oriented around ambush strategies, not open battle, so they're more likely to avoid conflict with skaven carrying heavy weapons like ratling guns or warpfire throwers.

The more likely failure points for relocating are in not being able to find a good enough location, or in finding a location that's say... unstable. Or the We simply misunderstands what we mean and ends up elsewhere. None of those failure points have been mitigated. It's just... really weak synergy.
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However the skaven respond, having Mathilde there watching what they do so she can tell the spiders about it will help. Even if the spiders would succeed anyway the intelligence Mathilde can supply would make it easier and demonstrate the value of the alliance.

The failure modes you suggest seem incredibly unlikely. We've already been talking to the spiders for months, and have thoroughly scouted the area they'd be going. Mathilde should have described it to them already to check whether it would work.
 
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