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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
Range for both would be yes.
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Hell yeah! I admit, a significant part of why I want an airship is the Coolness Factor, but being able to go *basically anywhere* without worrying about our gyrocopter running out of fuel and crashing is just the best. And given how much more comfortable a flying ship has to be than a gyro, and that the ship version is likely fast enough to be competitive in that as well, we'll probably just go in it everywhere and add to our reputation. It's one thing to hear spinning blades and think "could be dwarves, could be that one famous dwarf friend wizard", but quite another to see a fog-wreathed ship in the sky and know for sure that this is the one and only Mathilde Weber.
 
pucflek said:
Nothing the Morbs do cannot be done without series of power stones. Nothing. The real novelty is in revealing new principles of magic that shatter its current understanding. The Morbs, despite their size, are the tail end of what we just delivered. A nice Practical showing tip of the iceberg under which the real 9/10ths of what we actually gave colleges lurk.
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If so is the case, just for an easy example, why are the Luminarks of Hysh (the Light Order's best battlefield weapons) explicitly limited in their deployment by the number of Orbs of Sorcery in their possession? Why is their every deployment in the lore described as a carefully weighed gamble as to whether they can afford to temporarily unplug one of the Orbs maintaining the arcane defenses of their College's most secure vaults, if you could get the same results with several Hysh power stones?
 
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Talk of boons aside...

Boney said:
While the argument could be made that Vladimir von Carstein was not the worst of the claimants of Ghal Maraz during the Time of Three Emperors, he certainly was no martyr.
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This is a wild statement for a Lady Magister of the Colleges of Magic to make. It's one I think is accurate personally, but most imperial nobles would probably have an aneurysm to hear it, especially from a Shadowmancer. 'Most of you are better than the vampire in the basement of the Cult of Sigmar... most.'

'Don't make me scrape the barrel.' :V
 
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To weigh in on this whole flying airship/tower discussion...

What are we going to do with it? Like, actually?

We collect houses and magical machines and then largely leave them to just lanquish once we find a new shiny to play with.

Realistically, what could we use either of them for that we don't already have?

We have an aircraft that makes our travel needs an insignificant issue. It does the job perfectly.

If we go on our elfcation, it wouldn't be useful there. Anywhere else we settle next we have our Gyrocoptor to swing us back to home at K8P.

A flying gun platform? Why? We hardly ever get into field battles. Additionally, it's kind of hard to do the sneaky infiltrate/scout thing- our bread and butter- from a platform.

At the end of the day, we have no use case for this thing beyond "Oh shiny", which... isn't a good use of an extremely limited currency like this boon. We should invest it into something that will roll over into more possible research/rewards opportunities.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
If so is the case, just for an easy example, why are the Luminarks of Hysh (the Light Order's best battlefield weapons) explicitly limited in their deployment by the number of Orbs of Sorcery in their possession? Why is their every deployment in the lore described as a carefully weighed gamble as to whether they can afford to temporarily unplug one of the Orbs maintaining the arcane defenses of their College's most secure vaults, if you could get the same results with several Hysh power stones?
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Are they in Canon or in Boneycanon? Because Boney's always said that nothing orb of sorcery can do that battery of powerstones cannot. Its just about Sockets and aesthetic.

Besides that, Luminarks of Hysh may well not exist, because Jovi Sunscryer who made them died in Drakenhof City.

EDIT: Like this is a debate we had in the ancient days of 2020 and i see no reason to relitigate it. The ruling was that Orbs of Sorcery, while unique and irreplaceable themselves, were not actually irrepleaceable in function. Nothing they do cannot be replicated by group of smaller power stones, except looking pretty in a socket of the older battle altars.
 
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If were talking personal equipment or similar stuff, i would ask what would be the best to help us survive, but the trouble with that is that our biggest close call was against a champion of Khorne, which we only survived via divine intervention, and someone who has "blessings" enough to mostly shut down Kraggs work will have a hard time be affected by anything the collages can produce.
 
Alratan said:
Given we have a Gyropcopter for speed, if we want a log range transport option we should go to the other extreme and get the much more defensible and higher capacity flying tower.

It's probably a lot easy to down an airship than it is a tower.
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The Gyro being faster doesn't actually improve our overall speed, though. If we're taking the ship/tower anywhere, than the controlling factor will be it's speed.
 
Mopman43 said:
Jovi Sunscryer did not invent the Luminarks, he created one specific Luminark, referred to as the Tempelhof Luminark. It was a particularly large one.
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NuclearConsensus said:
As someone who's made the same mistake bwfore, that's actually not true. Jovi Sunscryer made a Luminark of Hysh, a special one. He wasn't responsible for all of them.
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Thanks for the fix but i am pretty sure the point about orbs stands.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
If so is the case, just for an easy example, why are the Luminarks of Hysh (the Light Order's best battlefield weapons) explicitly limited in their deployment by the number of Orbs of Sorcery in their possession? Why is their every deployment in the lore described as a carefully weighed gamble as to whether they can afford to temporarily unplug one of the Orbs maintaining the arcane defenses of their College's most secure vaults, if you could get the same results with several Hysh power stones?
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Because GW has an extremely tedious obsession with unique artefacts from a lost age that can never be replaced and when they inevitably get lost they forever reduce the capabilities of the ones losing them. It's right up there with ancient problems held at bay through means nobody understands any more and any second now it's going to break from lack of maintenance and unleash whatever that problem was.
 
@Boney Outside of the boon, given specific exemptions to the rule about studying dark magic exist, does Mathilde think she might have a good case for applying for one if she revealed the exisence of Vlad's enchantment notes?

I feel like wanting to see if there are any non-dhar insights that can be gleaned from the notes on enchanting something as ludicriously powerful (for a vampire) as the ring might make a good case. We could even use the fact the notes are in Nehekarhan to imply we only recently realised what they were (hence why we haven't burned them yet).

Or would the fact that it's the notes of Vlad Von Carsteinn just be another reason for the colleges to metaphorically run screaming in the other direction (or pull out a flamethrower)?
 
Boney said:
Because GW has an extremely tedious obsession with unique artefacts from a lost age that can never be replaced and when they inevitably get lost they forever reduce the capabilities of the ones losing them. It's right up there with ancient problems held at bay through means nobody understands any more and any second now it's going to break from lack of maintenance and unleash whatever that problem was.
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To be fair to GW that is more of a general fantasy thing which is inherited from the related myth of the Golden Age.
 
Ragnar said:
At the end of the day, we have no use case for this thing beyond "Oh shiny", which... isn't a good use of an extremely limited currency like this boon.
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Genuinely, why not? Let's imagine for a moment that the airship would bring us nothing new of value (which isn't true, but anyway) except for the fact that's it's super cool, why wouldn't it be a good idea to get it?
Ragnar said:
We should invest it into something that will roll over into more possible research/rewards opportunities.
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We've been doing this kind of thing forever. Like, I'm not exaggerating, Mathilde is a determinator and an utter machine of applied benevolence and groundbreaking research. She's got so many headpats, she's a headpat connoisseur now. Why must we continue doing the same things over and over and over again? I'm all for the research and rewards, but there's a point where it would be much more fun to get something that's cool than just make yet another step on the exact same path, and for me, here and now is very much this point.
 
Somic said:
Genuinely, why not? Let's imagine for a moment that the airship would bring us nothing new of value (which isn't true, but anyway) except for the fact that's it's super cool, why wouldn't it be a good idea to get it?
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It needs crew. Tower all the way.
EDIT: That said yes, there is no steep downside to it. My opposition to it is more the opportunity cost and rejection of aesthetic, but that is a personal opinion, not an immutable fact of reality. I shan't disagree with that.
 
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Humbaba said:
@Boney Outside of the boon, given specific exemptions to the rule about studying dark magic exist, does Mathilde think she might have a good case for applying for one if she revealed the exisence of Vlad's enchantment notes?

I feel like wanting to see if there are any non-dhar insights that can be gleaned from the notes on enchanting something as ludicriously powerful (for a vampire) as the ring might make a good case. We could even use the fact the notes are in Nehekarhan to imply we only recently realised what they were (hence why we haven't burned them yet).

Or would the fact that it's the notes of Vlad Von Carsteinn just be another reason for the colleges to metaphorically run screaming in the other direction (or pull out a flamethrower)?
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You could try, but revealing it does mean you would probably have to abide with the decision if the decision is 'no'.

DragonParadox said:
To be fair to GW that is more of a general fantasy thing which is inherited from the related myth of the Golden Age.
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The previous existence of a trope doesn't make it impossible to overuse it, and they absolutely do overuse it. And besides, if anything they love it even more in their sci fi franchises.
 
Ok so thoughts on the big one

AIRSHIP VS FLYING TOWER​

Pros for the airship:
Fast, more easily hidden, building ships is a time honored tradition of many a people, "giving them a full broadside" seems like a fun thing to yell.
Pros for the flying tower:
Beeeeeeeeg, really hard to destroy, lots of space to add personal weapons of doom, lots of space to add amenities, "bring your own wizard tower" day is no longer a problem when Algard invites us for tea.
 
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Boney said:
Because GW has an extremely tedious obsession with unique artefacts from a lost age that can never be replaced and when they inevitably get lost they forever reduce the capabilities of the ones losing them. It's right up there with ancient problems held at bay through means nobody understands any more and any second now it's going to break from lack of maintenance and unleash whatever that problem was.
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One thing I like about WFRP 4e is that it makes it clear that the High Elves know how to maintain and repair the waystone network and do so regularly even in the Old World. It does of course make it quite incompatible with Divided Loyalties, but in its own context it's quite refreshing.
 
Also, another thing I just thought about. A mobile base would be a excellent place to put one ore more of the morbs for newly designed death-from-above spell-line by Mathilde Weber©
 
Boney said:
The previous existence of a trope doesn't make it impossible to overuse it, and they absolutely do overuse it. And besides, if anything they love it even more in their sci fi franchises.
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Also true though I am not sure I'd even call 40K SF at this point, even 'Science Fantasy' in the vein of Star Wars feels a bit too grounded. 'Fantasy in Space!' would fit best IMO.
(just some idle genre nerd speculation about classifications, not directly linked to the substance of your post)
 
I really liked both halves of this update. The Grey Lords' take on necromancy was really interesting - recognising the Druuchi roots, for one thing - although I'm a bit nervous about what Lord Seilph was looking for in Mathilde, and whether he found it. The M/Patriarchs all looking suspiciously and then interestedly at the Orbs was also fun to read.

On the reward, I'm quite taken by either a flying tower or the Armour of Von Tarnus. The tower's really cool, and a mobile base with research facilities etc. is a big benefit - I don't think the potential for an airship to go faster is worth the tradeoff of less space and defensibility. Anywhere we'd be going where the difference is big enough not to be handwaved away by variable AP times is already a big enough commitment we'd be investing significant time into, and we'd want the benefits a tower provides. A tower is also just Aesthetically Superior for a wizard, them's just the breaks.

Meanwhile, the Armour of Von Tarnus is a serious upgrade to Mathilde's personal panoply. Having said that, I think the thread does have vague dreams of getting our hands on some ithilmar from the Elves one day, and I think the latter might just be better? Anyone know how they stack up lorewise?

I don't think it'll happen, but if we go for 8 smaller rewards, I wouldn't mind BOOK being a few of them, but not most or all. I'd be looking for more magical secrets mostly - anyone have any in mind for any of the Colleges?
 
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Ragnar said:
At the end of the day, we have no use case for this thing beyond "Oh shiny", which... isn't a good use of an extremely limited currency like this boon. We should invest it into something that will roll over into more possible research/rewards opportunities.
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What is your pitch for more research/reward options? If you are going to insist that being able to turn up places and melt them with acid shadows and cannon fire from the sky isn't worth reading about and won't be good then provide a tangible other option. What exactly is going to get us more research options that will lead to a reward this good?
 
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