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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Goodness, goodness! As much awesome as was anticipated - and it's still not done! Thank you, as ever, for the post.

On the flying ship vs. flying tower debate, one thing to keep in mind is that normal, land-bound towers typically have foundations. Just landing the tower means a great deal of subsidence and toppling. Now, magic can probably fix this, but that in turn means that there'll be a continuous expenditure of magic to maintain the tower even while on the ground, which limits what other purposes it can be put to.

Retrueno said:
Honestly in so far I don't really like the flying ship/tower idea. Mostly because I don't think it's something we will be using.

If we had plans to go on some kind of cool expedition it'd cool, but as it's I feel it'll be sitting gathering dust or only being used to show off.
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Nagarythe.

Valmond said:
I'd prefer a ship.
We already have a tower, and i am not interested in moving.
But a ship not only gives us a faster long range mobility option that could carry a gyrocopter for quick short range movement, but also allows us to make Marienburg shit bricks.

Marienburger: "They got so fed up with their navy having to pay tolls they started to make their ships fly?"

The future of the Empire as a major naval power rests in our hands people, we must rise to meet this challenge.
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On the subject of Marienburg, one element of the post seems to have gone unnoticed (quite reasonably, given the excitement of the vote)...
Boney said:
"Yes, that's part of what makes the seafarers to the north a problem," he says, effortlessly switching onto an entirely different topic as he begins to carefully unravel energies from around a shoulder joint. "At the larger scale they have all the ruthlessness typical of the worshippers of the Four, but on the level of individual villages and ships they're very strongly intersupporting, very able to work towards the collective good even at the cost of individual gain. It also might be what makes it possible to chip them away from the influence of the Four, as our cousins in the west seem to be doing through Marienburg. (emphasis mine)
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Part of the rationale for Ulthuan to assist in the secession of Marienburg, it seems, was to claim influence in the region's most powerful trade hub to start peeling some of the Old World's most prolific traders away from Chaos. Obviously this isn't going to turn around the thread's opinion on Marienburg (the Asur could have asked the Empire about such a strategy but, well, they're the Asur and entrusting the work of fighting Chaos to humans doesn't occur to them too often) but it's intriguing to get a glimpse at the other point of view.
 
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shepsquared said:
I wouldn't call any of those plans instead of idle thoughts snd 'wouldn't this be cool' scenarios. Only the first one is really releveant to anything weve done before.

You might as well say we have plans to become a second Nagash with our mastery of necromancy.
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I mean the Waystone project was an idle thought before we did it. That is kind of the nature of climbing as high as Mathilde did.

Also all of them are relevant to either the study of deep magic, dwarvish renaissance and advancing our skills as a shadow mage.

pucflek said:
We don't actually iirc. The Belt helps with the Dhar fucking with our brainmeats iirc but no amount of that helps with the mindset necessary for wielding dhar being virulently bad for remaining a sane and compassionate human being.
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Yeah, but holding a mindset on its own isn't that much of a problem as long as its not enforced by metaphysical corruption, elves do it all the time, including many Asrai and Eonir who are otherwise functional members of society.
 
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Nimbus said:
Nagarythe.
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See thats my issue. Not only do we not need a flying vehicle for that (it would just give shade clans something to shoot at and give us away), its also like, the one expedition somewhere far where we might need a base that we have planned. And we dunno the next time we might need one. I like tower more than i do ship, but i don't really necessarily want either. I just don't think either fits with Mathilde as we have played her until now, for the past... jesus, 6 years? A personal panoply item of terrible power just fits better with what we usually do than mobile base. The only actual benefit it would have to us is like, minute improvement in comfort.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I mean we are planning a lot of potential expeditions, just as examples:
  1. Go to the Mountains of Morn and look for a source of Titan Metal
  2. Go to Cathay for the same also Waystone lore and also Ninjas who might be interested in offering training (someone trained Clan Eshin)
  3. Find Albion and trade the secret of steel for the secrets of the literal Old Ones, also make Tocher's day
  4. Look for Zorn in the Southlands, that is the last potential lost Hold
  5. Look for the Spine of Sotek Dwarfs in Lustria, that axe had to come from somewhere and given that it was found in the company of Lustrian Gold...
  6. Launch another expedition to Dum now that we know what their deal is, a flying ship would be a solid core for that since it worked in canon
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Those sound more like cool places it might be interesting to visit but I don't think there has been solid plans with support to go there.
 
Hmm... I'm thinking - if we provide another 8 Orbs could the Colleges provide a taskforce of Battle Wizards & Altars assigned to Mathilde/attached to WEB-MAT? @Boney


Because other than that or Skyship we don't really need much?

Book is solved by Dawi money, Waystones are good for everyone and we're ahead of Algard in the whole build pocket dimensions stuff.
 
I'd actually like to get access to the various Colleges' higher mysteries. The secrets of Thaumaturgical Alchemy from the Golds, etc

DragonParadox said:
Yeah, but holding a mindset on its own isn't that much of a problem as long as its not enforced by metaphysical corruption, elves do it all the time, including many Asrai and Eonir who are otherwise functional members of society.
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Humans may have more plastic, less elastic minds than elves though.

Although the principle of Necromancy if not touching Dhar directly may avoid the need for adopting the Dhar mindset as you don't have to resonate with it, just with your own pure Wind.
 
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Rather than commissioning a new enchanted item, we could ask for one of the existing artifacts/relics that belong to either the Colleges or an individual member. Though I dont know how big we could go.

Could we ask for the Armor of Tarnus? Some wizards gotta wear it.
 
Retrueno said:
Those sound more like cool places it might be interesting to visit but I don't think there has been solid plans with support to go there.
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Sure, but the only one that's compatible with the Waystone project is Titan metal and we are only now getting close to the point of working on a magic-light stone, all the others are for after the project. Point is we are not just going to decide out of the blue that we are going to fly to the four corners of the map we need the freedom to do so and knowing we have the ship is part of that.
 
DragonParadox said:
I mean the Waystone project was an idle thought before we did it. That is kind of the nature of climbing as high as Mathilde did.

Also all of them are relevant to either the study of deep magic, dwarvish renaissance and advancing our skills as a shadow mage.
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So are traveling to Ulthuan to fight alongside and learn from the Arhain of Nagarythe, bringing Brettonia into the Waystone project, recreating a nexus, or following up the frontrunners for the other Daughter, all of which have been discussed and none of which have a real plan behind them because the thread gets caught up in a dozen different arguments.

We'd be best served either getting the fancy silk robes someone else mentioned since there's no guarantee Mathilde will be able to easily replace her current robes, getting a few other fancy personal scale items, or banking the reward until we know what we're going to do next.
 
shepsquared said:
So are traveling to Ulthuan to fight alongside and learn from the Arhain of Nagarythe, bringing Brettonia into the Waystone project, recreating a nexus, or following up the frontrunners for the other Daughter, all of which have been discussed and none of which have a real plan behind them because the thread gets caught up in a dozen different arguments.

We'd be best served either getting the fancy silk robes someone else mentioned since there's no guarantee Mathilde will be able to easily replace her current robes, getting a few other fancy personal scale items, or banking the reward until we know what we're going to do next.
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I do not think it is possible for the colleges to make a robe that would be worth this level of favor, if you want to go that route ask that as a single college boon and ask the others for other stuff.
 
DragonParadox said:
Sure, but the only one that's compatible with the Waystone project is Titan metal and we are only now getting close to the point of working on a magic-light stone, all the others are for after the project. Point is we are not just going to decide out of the blue that we are going to fly to the four corners of the map we need the freedom to do so and knowing we have the ship is part of that.
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We don't need a flying ship or tower to travel the world, going to Lustria has been an option since we became a Magister. And world travel would be 10 times more interesting without a safe base we carry around with us.
 
DragonParadox said:
I mean we are planning a lot of potential expeditions, just as examples:
  1. Go to the Mountains of Morn and look for a source of Titan Metal
  2. Go to Cathay for the same also Waystone lore and also Ninjas who might be interested in offering training (someone trained Clan Eshin)
  3. Find Albion and trade the secret of steel for the secrets of the literal Old Ones, also make Tocher's day
  4. Look for Zorn in the Southlands, that is the last potential lost Hold
  5. Look for the Spine of Sotek Dwarfs in Lustria, that axe had to come from somewhere and given that it was found in the company of Lustrian Gold...
  6. Launch another expedition to Dum now that we know what their deal is, a flying ship would be a solid core for that since it worked in canon
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1) hostile mountains. Needs a wholeass expedition otherwise we have no safe fallback point and its too dangerous to just go to
2) worldbuilding issues
3) magical mist probably won't give a shit about if you aproach by water or air
4) see 1)
5) see 1) except on the triple because goddamn is being in the air not an advantage in a land of lizards that could swallow a ship whole, some of who can fly.
6) You got a point there but Spirit of Grungni was mundane. I am leery of putting an enchantment wonder in the literal river of magic that makes up the aerial part of chaos wastes.

Which brings us to magical airship as example to Dwarves. They probably kinda really don't need it? The entire Airship business is not a question of dwarven engineering impetus, its a question of logistics that Thorgrim and Belegar need to hash out, because the airlift gas is manufactured only on Thorgrim's say so.

Its not so much a question of "can we" in question of dwarven manufacturing and more of "king said its my turn to play with reserves of karaz ankor".

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Gavin Prince said:
Rather than commissioning a new enchanted item, we could ask for one of the existing artifacts/relics that belong to either the Colleges or an individual member. Though I dont know how big we could go.

Could we ask for the Armor of Tarnus? Some wizards gotta wear it.
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As was mentioned, Mathilde already has aethyric armour that is the equal of steel plate, if not better. Armour of von Tarnus seems like a downgrade actually.
 
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Somic said:
Guys! GUYS
If/when we get a flying base, we will be able to show up to the Elfcation in STYLE
Just imagine a huge, fog-cloaked ship (or tower I guess) silently floating up to the shore
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You want to take a fog-wreathed tower or ship up to Ulthuan, which is semi-regularly attacked by Black Arks, ships and castles wreathed in fog?
 
shepsquared said:
We don't need a flying ship or tower to travel the world, going to Lustria has been an option since we became a Magister. And world travel would be 10 times more interesting without a safe base we carry around with us.
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We do if we want to bring meaningful amounts of books and firepower. At this point I feel like we are arguing different things

We have nothing to use an airship for
*lists off cool and thematically relevant things we could do where it would be useful to have an airship*
But we could maybe do them without the airship

Yes obviously, but having the literal high ground helps you scout better and having a fortress helps you survive better
 
A few things on this discussion.
A) book hasn't been brought up much because (in my opinion) we already have done plenty of book thing, hell we have done big library things this turn, twice!
B) our last few rewards have been much more things done for others. (at least partial). The library, kau, the channels. Our last really selfish thing was becoming a knight (I think)
C) the vitae is not coupled with anything else, it has no connection to any previous jobs that would mean credit could be given to anyone else. This is ours, no one else's so the reward reflecting that is appropriate I feel.
D) a flying fortress or a airship are both investments in our future adventures. There a few things one can do where a flying base of operations isn't a boon.
 
I brought up the armour more as an example. Are there any Hero-level artefacts short of Volans staff to be found on the statline of an existing Empire wizard that we might want? Because this kind of boon is how you get access to them if youre not crafting or looting them yourself
 
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Gavin Prince said:
I brought up the armour more as an example. Are there any Hero-level artefacts short of Volans staff to be found on the statline of an existing Empire wizard that we might want? Because this kind of boon is how you get access to them if youre not crafting or looting them yourself
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They could be custom made. Robes of We-Silk enchanted by colleges best are explicitly noted to be better than whatever Mathilde could make (Someone asked if they could make better ones than we could and the Boney answer was yes). We could also probably ask for a custom made artifact as potent as Silver Seal or somesuch that we could replace Boon of Hysh with. Sky's the limit.
 
I'm interested to see what the AV to CF exchange rates look like next turn. Both for making another set of Orbs and for just handing over some flasks for the colleges to play with.


For our reward… the main thing is that I want this to be something for Mathilde. It doesn't have to be practical, it doesn't even need to be useful. It just needs to be something that brings her joy and or smugness when she thinks about it being hers. So nothing that is just 'help with my job'. Nothing in the background, like political support. Not just a promise to help with a battle or campaign. Not a collection of eight random items.
A flying tower does seem like the sort of thing Mathilde would want just for the sake of having it. To proclaim her existence as a WIZARD for all the world to hear. A flying ship or giant robot/mech might be cool in the abstract but they aren't what Mathilde would fantasise about owning.
 
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