Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Sure, but if we're going to generalize to the narrative* how different the mechanics of Apprenticeship were in character creation vs. how they are when we're the Master and use that to draw unflattering conclusions about Regimand as a teacher, I think it's only fair to draw unflattering conclusions about Mathilde as a student as well.

*Which, for the record, I think we shouldn't; I'd be much more on-board with narrative interpretation "Eike is unusually talented/prepared" (which is supported by the fact that multiple LMs wanted to take her on, not just us) than "Regimand was unusually bad" or "Mathilde is an unusually good teacher or was an unusually bad student."
That's a reasonable interpretation*, but I haven't made any judgements about Regimand's tutoring vs Mathilde's diligence and it doesn't factor into any of my reasons for wanting to teach Eike true Ulgu spells ourself. I agree she's trending towards being much more prepared than Mathilde was, likely due to a combo of her own talents and nature, her hero-worship, and Mathilde's general workaholic overachiever approach.

* As metanarratively, one could consider Eike to have been marked 'Quest Protagonist with Bennies' from probably the day she was found to have Windsight, where Mathilde wasn't until the Conspiracy got her kicked out- that probably a little earlier than Regimand intended.
 
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That's a reasonable interpretation*, but I haven't made any judgements about Regimand's tutoring vs Mathilde's diligence and it doesn't factor into any of my reasons for wanting to teach Eike true Ulgu spells ourself. I agree she's trending towards being much more prepared than Mathilde was, likely due to a combo of her own nature, her hero-worship, and Mathilde's general workaholic overachiever approach.

* As metanarratively, one could consider Eike to have been marked 'Quest Protagonist with Bennies' from probably the day she was found to have Windsight, where Mathilde wasn't until the Conspiracy got her kicked out- that probably a little earlier than Regimand intended.
I think we might be agreeing violently with each other -- as I said, I certainly want to see Mathilde introduce Eike to true Ulgu, much like how we introduced Mandred to Ranald, because I think it would be great to read.
 
Well at this point this is mostly a theoretical discussion (since Shadowsteed is tied for 9th place in the vote and will not be getting learned by Eike this turn even if she mega-crits), but personally I'm not really seeing the "let Eike be her own person" angle here. Mathilde teaching Eike inevitably means teaching her the ways and methods that Mathilde understands, but that's just what teaching is. That's kind of the point of being her master.

I might be projecting but I think people might have gotten primed by the enchantment vote to think in those terms. When it comes to enchantment this line of thinking makes sense, because Eike has demonstrated that she has her own unique talents and inclinations in that field, and they're not ones shared by Mathilde. But this is an exception, our default position should be that Mathilde teach Eike (time and ability permitting). When it comes to casting Eike did not demonstrate a unique understanding of Ulgu radically different from Mathilde's, and in fact has demonstrated an understanding of Ulgu close enough to Mathilde's that she has already picked up one of her masteries. I really don't see the problem here.
 
I think I get it? If Mathilde teaches Eike one of her Masteries, it prevents Eike from potentially gaining a Mastery of her own. It limits the possibility space of what Eike could accomplish herself. Taking away some measure of the potential she herself has. Like a student learning something from their teacher that permanently prevented them from creating their own way of doing things. You don't want to limit Eike and you don't want Mathilde to be a bad teacher.
 
I think I get it? If Mathilde teaches Eike one of her Masteries, it prevents Eike from potentially gaining a Mastery of her own. It limits the possibility space of what Eike could accomplish herself. Taking away some measure of the potential she herself has. Like a student learning something from their teacher that permanently prevented them from creating their own way of doing things. You don't want to limit Eike and you don't want Mathilde to be a bad teacher.
On the other hand it is clear nobody is getting every spell mastered. If Eike is going to master 4-5 spells by herself Mathilde teaching her masteries add to that number not replace them.
 
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Really this just brings up the question of how many Masteries a normal Gray wizard would even achieve in their career. Obviously the fact Mathilde made Lady Magister marks her as an outlier, but she's also probably in the top three most-violence-prone Grays of all time, and most of her Masteries are specifically from getting up to crazy shit in combat.
 
I want to teach Eike Mathilde's mastery of Shadowsteed because it is crazy good. The increase in strategic mobility is absurd, and in many waus has been quest defining. There are dozens of other spells that Eike can develop masteries for, but I really want to pass one of our best tools to her.
 
I want to teach Eike Mathilde's mastery of Shadowsteed because it is crazy good. The increase in strategic mobility is absurd, and in many waus has been quest defining. There are dozens of other spells that Eike can develop masteries for, but I really want to pass one of our best tools to her.

I get the point you are driving for and agree to an extent but we also have to take into account Eike.

Nearly every task we've had her do, most of the skills gained has been leaning to a well-rounded apprentice but with a distinct focus on the material interacting with the Aethyr, the inks and glass, the trade-craft she got from Wilhelmina she appears to be gearing towards a rather stationary existence after her journey. I am not saying it wouldn't be helpful but I don't think it is what we should be driving at.
 
I will repeat myself and say that I think it's likely that the narrative is kinda against Eike developing the same understanding of horses as Mathilde, and at any rate, I think it's quite possible that Eike might never need to go on the sort of cross-province horseback sprint that necessitated Mathilde accidentally creating her Mastery.

Really this just brings up the question of how many Masteries a normal Gray wizard would even achieve in their career. Obviously the fact Mathilde made Lady Magister marks her as an outlier, but she's also probably in the top three most-violence-prone Grays of all time, and most of her Masteries are specifically from getting up to crazy shit in combat.
"Normal" is pulling a lot of weight there. I'm sure Grey Battle Wizards get up to way higher levels of violence.
 
I get the point you are driving for and agree to an extent but we also have to take into account Eike.

Nearly every task we've had her do, most of the skills gained has been leaning to a well-rounded apprentice but with a distinct focus on the material interacting with the Aethyr, the inks and glass, the trade-craft she got from Wilhelmina she appears to be gearing towards a rather stationary existence after her journey. I am not saying it wouldn't be helpful but I don't think it is what we should be driving at.
Eike's focus on materials is a natural extension of her familiarity with trade, as she can easily acquire materials—but I disagree with the idea that what Eike's learned from Wilhelmina would lead her to be more stationary.

Trade is all about exchanging resources between point A and point B. A focus on trade, assuming that's a direction she chooses, would have her travel more, not less—case in point, Eike being told to move a wagon of charcoal from Middenheim to Tor Lithanel and traveling across the entirety of Nordland over hundreds of miles to make the deal there instead.
 
How often does the average battlemage get deployed? I assume Melkoth has us beat handily
Oh, many lifetimes' over, no doubt. But was he in command of entire armies, or just a battle wizard contingent? How much you weight does one ascribe to 'the commander has responsibility for all the forces under her command and the violence they commit'?

But we do at least seem likely to be on the higher side of violence for a *Ranald-worshipping* Grey.
 
How often does the average battlemage get deployed? I assume Melkoth has us beat handily
If we're going by overall magical casualties, Mathilde's use of the Eye of Gazul to kill most of a Waaagh in one shot almost certainly beats all the current battlemages.

For martial leadership during a conflict, she may very well be the highest placed in College history, as wizards in human society are just never given the opportunity. Dragomas being the 'may' in that sentence, since nobody knows what the hell he got up to in the Far East that led to him learning to shapeshift into one of the dragons that rule over them.
 
Setting aside the "Eike won't need to travel" talking point - ReImagined settles that quite well in my opinion - I see three critical issues with the notion of not trying to pass on our mastery and the arguments expressed to do it.

First and what I haven't seen pointed out, masteries are not self expression. They are not designed, they are not chosen, Mathilde did not choose her shadowsteed mastery nor any of her others. They just happened - they are at most reflections of the self, and what this means for eike is that if she is incompatible with casting that reflection, she will simply not be able to learn it. If she is and develops it, it is compatible with who she is, including her personal feelings and thoughts about horses - thoughts and feelings she can use to develop her own spells from the ground up whether we pass on a mastery or not. Eike getting Mathilde's mastery does not suppress or dictate eike's personal growth in any meaningful way, not even her ability to make horse magic.

Second - there is no guarantee at all that she develops any mastery for shadowsteed what-so-ever. Mechanically, Mathilde's knowledge may influence what kind of masteries are available should the appropriate casting roll happen to develop a mastery, but it does not change the mastery chance itself. Eike is as likely to develop a mastery for shadowsteed in specific as for Burning Shadows in specific, and that means not likely what-so-ever. Not trying to pass Mathilde's mastery is giving up that high likelihood of a mastery for a lottery ticket.

And third, most obvious, Mathilde's shadowsteed is fucking awesome. Amazing. Difficult to imagine any mastery of the spell itself that could be better. It defined much of this quest, it is of immense use to Eike's stewardship of the EIC and to any application of her role as a grey magister, and if we manage to codify it will, as chocolate12 put it, redefine what you hire the grey college for. We already hit the jackpot - now, we should make sure it does not die out with us. We cannot count on codification succeeding, and we can't count on passing on the master succeeding either even if we try. We should be taking every avenue we can to make sure we are not the only person in the grey college who can do what we do.

tl;dr

1. Teaching Eike mathilde's shadowsteed does not stunt her growth or self expression in any way. She can make her own horse magic either way, the Equestrian trait/skill gives her that. But nobody can decide to make a mastery.
2. The odds of Eike getting her own shadowsteed mastery in place of getting ours are vanishingly slim in the first place. Nobody can decide to get their own mastery, and their character traits do not make that one happens more likely, only what form it takes if it does.
3. The mastery would be extraordinarily to eike in particular, and the grey college as a whole. We can pass it on as a spell via codification if that succeeds and as a mastery to Eike who will get her own crack at codification later with her personal understanding of horses backing her up. Her chance to have it is one of the biggest perks to even having mathilde as a master in the first place.

So yeah, I want mathilde to personally teach Eike shadowsteed, and to attempt to pass on that mastery.

That probably means not having her learn shadowsteed right this moment.

Edit: I don't mean to pick any fights, but I did write this in a rush - I can see a lot of issues of tone just looking back at it briefly. There's probably worse issues to find in my rhetoric if I had the time to look... So, uh. Sorry about that. X_x
 
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Teaching Eike Mathilde's Ulgu masteries is something I support in the abstract, but Shadowsteed specifically is iffy. Eike really likes horse-riding, but I don't know if that means she likes riding shadow horses, which is a different experience. If she does enjoy it, then yeah, teach her the mastery, because that better lets her do the thing she likes. Otherwise, I think we should just pay for horse-riding lessons.
 
Teaching Eike Mathilde's Ulgu masteries is something I support in the abstract, but Shadowsteed specifically is iffy. Eike really likes horse-riding, but I don't know if that means she likes riding shadow horses, which is a different experience. If she does enjoy it, then yeah, teach her the mastery, because that better lets her do the thing she likes. Otherwise, I think we should just pay for horse-riding lessons.
Just get her a shadow horse. IF she still feels the need to do some equestiran stuff she can buy a pegasus for herself in the future.
 
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Teaching Eike Mathilde's Ulgu masteries is something I support in the abstract, but Shadowsteed specifically is iffy. Eike really likes horse-riding, but I don't know if that means she likes riding shadow horses, which is a different experience. If she does enjoy it, then yeah, teach her the mastery, because that better lets her do the thing she likes. Otherwise, I think we should just pay for horse-riding lessons.
She liked it a lot the first time.
She quickly recovers her enthusiasm as she accelerates to a canter down the stairs, and as Karag Nar is well accustomed to your own mounted comings and goings up and down the central staircase you simply smile and allow her to enjoy the trip. Once out into the Eastern Valley she accelerates even further, the Shadowsteed taking her at a speed beyond the capabilities of any mundane horse. You could still run rings around her if you were of a mind, but you lag behind and let her enjoy it
 
The Old World Rulebook has lore on Cathay.

Page 86
Despite its geographical size and economic strength, and in spite of the vast armies and war engines it can muster, the Cathayan empire is surrounded by enemies and beset by rebellion and strife.
Imperium of Dragons ass place.

Long before the coming of the Old Ones, the Celestial Dragon ruled the east. In time, humans populated his lands and came to revere him for his power and wisdom. When Chaos flooded the world, the Celestial Dragon brought together and protected the tribes of the east. In thanks, the humans took the Dragon as their Emperor and served him with loyal admiration. At the birth of Cathay, the Celestial Dragon took a mate, the Moon Empress, and with her had nine Draconic children to rule the land, watched over by their father and mother from the capital of Weijin.
The Celestial Dragon ruled the land of Cathay before the Old Ones were around, but the exact wording doesn't say it was humans he was ruling over at this time, rather that eventually he did. Was he ruling over others or is it more in the sense of simply having a territory?

Page 87
In the east Yin-Yin, the Sea Dragon looks out across the Jade Sea, her treasure fleets travelling east, south and west in search of gold and glory.
The correct way to see this is that she's sending her ships to Ind, or maybe Pigbarter and beyond. The funny way to see this is that she's sending her treasure fleets directly west, i.e. over the land of Cathay. Yin-Yin struggles to beat the girlfailure allegations.

His solution was to gather his greatest engineers and levy thousands upon thousands of his subjects to raise a wall from the mountains in the west to the ocean in the east, a barrier to stand for all time. As the wall grew, the Celestial Dragon and his children poured their magic into it, and so it became more than merely a barrier of stone, wood and steel, but one of will and determination.
Seems the Great Bastion's actual construction was a feat of mundane engineering; magic was used to make it stronger, but all the stonework was completed in at most 300 years using -1800 IC era cranes and the like.
 
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