So to be clear, you want to send the whole Laurelorn team to build tributaries in Nordland? While not only snubbing them for waystone deployment but also building absolutely nothing in Laurelorn itself? The Eonir will take it very badly.
Ok so, it pains me to say this because I Don't actually want to do this, but to be fair and equal and so that all can make a informed decision I got to.
We are allowed to use EIC shares for a loan of money to buy shinies in lothern.
I'd probably only have it be a possibility right before Mathilde heads into an area rich in purchasing opportunities. I'm trying to keep the accountancy quest genie from getting all the way out of the bottle and I don't think making leveraging assets a regular part of the quest would help in that regard
So to be clear, you want to send the whole Laurelorn team to build tributaries in Nordland? While not only snubbing them for waystone deployment but also building absolutely nothing in Laurelorn itself? The Eonir will take it very badly.
Building tributaries in Laurelorn is part of the Nordland action. I don't think anybody here wants to go to Nordland, specifically, only to make stuff for Laurelorn.
The Forest of Laurelorn will be dealt with as part of Nordland for this purpose. You can either go with the Dreaming Wood tributaries and focus on Laurelorn, or go with the Halethan ones and focus on the Forest of Shadows. The purpose at this stage isn't to achieve 100% saturation across the entire province, it's to shore up the Waystone Network where it's needed, to demonstrate the value of Waystones to Elector Counts that are currently varying levels of ignorant to apathetic about them, and to build up a proven track record to help with future negotiations.
Given that the Nordland nexus of Salzenmund flows to Tor Lithanel's nexus, I don't even think Laurelorn would be 100% upset if Nordland proper got some more coverage. That just means more magic for them.
It's less ideal than lowering the bad magic in their own forest, but still an overall positive thing.
Given that the Nordland nexus of Salzenmund flows to Tor Lithanel's nexus, I don't even think Laurelorn would be 100% upset if Nordland proper got some more coverage. That just means more magic for them.
It's less ideal than lowering the bad magic in their own forest, but still an overall positive thing.
I'm a little busy getting ready for work, but I just want people to know that I'm cooking a plan titled "We Have Adventures At Home", and that I'm willing to take requests on which Old World Face Punching Actions people are interested in.
Because if we're going to be punching faces this turn, I'd rather they be local and probably come with a strategic benefit for the project, like reclaiming a Nexus or earning an allies trust or something.
With Overwork, I reckon I can fit in a bunch of juicy actions this turn.
@Boney, would a Dreaming Wood (Nordland) tributary be sort of similar to the Kislev tributary action? Basically a boost to get it done faster than the Eonir would've otherwise?
@Boney, would a Dreaming Wood (Nordland) tributary be sort of similar to the Kislev tributary action? Basically a boost to get it done faster than the Eonir would've otherwise?
Not just that, there's also political elements about getting them set up on the frontier with Nordland, where they're most needed because the lornalim got cleared out but where having a bunch of Elves doing magic things within mortar range of Nordland settlements might not be super advisable.
I'm a little busy getting ready for work, but I just want people to know that I'm cooking a plan titled "We Have Adventures At Home", and that I'm willing to take requests on which Old World Face Punching Actions people are interested in.
Because if we're going to be punching faces this turn, I'd rather they be local and probably come with a strategic benefit for the project, like reclaiming a Nexus or earning an allies trust or something.
With Overwork, I reckon I can fit in a bunch of juicy actions this turn.
The main things I can think of to punch in the face are the Forest of Shadows and Mordheim Nexuses, with a slight preference for the Forest of Shadows, but I have made a Nagarythe Vacation plan so I am not sure what a more receptive audience is interested in doing. My plan involves going to Eastern Stirland with Johann to punch ghosts and vampires in the face, but the main reason for that is to double dip on The Protector to see how the Knightbringer spell reacts to us reinforcing the legend of the Dämmerlichtreiter.
Not just that, there's also political elements about getting them set up on the frontier with Nordland, where they're most needed because the lornalim got cleared out but where having a bunch of Elves doing magic things within mortar range of Nordland settlements might not be super advisable.
Gotcha, thanks. That added dimension of value add does make it quite a bit more appealing to me than I found it previously where I kind of just thought we were gilding the lily.
Gotcha, thanks. That added dimension of value add does make it quite a bit more appealing to me than I found it previously where I kind of just thought we were gilding the lily.
Deployment of the waystones in Kislev first makes a lot of sense and the arguments for it are good.
We should send more experts though, not just those who originated in Kislev.
First of all it'll help if there's some kind of connection issue. Especially since these waystones are built using traditions that don't exist in Kislev.
Second we might be able to have our own wizards learn something valuable if they're there helping set up the waystones. We should at least send our Jade magister if she's not busy doing something else.
@Boney Besides both being sun/creator gods at the head of their pantheon and married to a moon goddess, do our books mention any more similarities between Asuryan and Ptra?
@Boney Besides both being sun/creator gods at the head of their pantheon and married to a moon goddess, do our books mention any more similarities between Asuryan and Ptra?
Has there ever been any indication that Ptra considers Nagash the true High King of Nehekhara and that he cursed Alcadizaar for going against his favoured servant?
Has there ever been any indication that Ptra considers Nagash the true High King of Nehekhara and that he cursed Alcadizaar for going against his favoured servant?
Not really, Nagash's whole thing was always that he was acting in spite of and in opposition to the Gods. And if the Gods were trying to hold Alcadizaar back, they didn't do too good a job of it.
@Boney Just to get a feel for your position, without any particular plans for it: I assume potions would be more of an option if Mathilde came at it from a different direction, like taking some amount of actions with Pan, about learning the basics of potioneering and or securing a supply of ingridients for her, or whatever turns out that way? That way it doesn't come out of nowhere, and quaffing a potion is more an expression of Pan's care and concern.
On that note, do we know if she's still doing potioneering? I remeber she had a talent for it, but it might have dropped by the wayside (or transitioned into an interest in cooking). I'm asking because I wonder if "secure a supply of potion ingredients to K8Ps" would be a useful action, mayebe as an EIC action.
@Boney Just to get a feel for your position, without any particular plans for it: I assume potions would be more of an option if Mathilde came at it from a different direction, like taking some amount of actions with Pan, about learning the basics of potioneering and or securing a supply of ingridients for her, or whatever turns out that way? That way it doesn't come out of nowhere, and quaffing a potion is more an expression of Pan's care and concern.
On that note, do we know if she's still doing potioneering? I remeber she had a talent for it, but it might have dropped by the wayside (or transitioned into an interest in cooking). I'm asking because I wonder if "secure a supply of potion ingredients to K8Ps" would be a useful action, mayebe as an EIC action.
She's maintained her abilities in it and she maintains a herb garden by her cottage and in the greenhouse, but most of her time and effort has been going towards the K8P ecosystem because that's the task at hand. You can write in actions to pursue something along those lines.
I've decided to throw together a little post offering commentary about the various plans that have been proposed so far. If I've overlooked someone or made some particularly stupid mistake, let me know.
A Protector plan that makes use of the Overwork mechanic to wrap up the Nagarythe trip in a single journey, deploys Waystones in Praag, puts Tributaries in the borders of Nordland and develops a new Waystone. Auditors for EIC, book purchasing in Lothern for the library, AV for the Serenity action, Eike in the Waystone, EIC and KAU actions, plus an enchanting class paid with favour.
Seems like a workable plan, but I have a number of concerns.
1) This is a particularly AP starved turn. Maybe the Waystone design could be left for later?
2) KAU getting more elf-books when we already got a ton this turn seems less urgent than clearing the backlog of libraries we can copy IMO.
3) We are a bit CF starved right at this moment, even if that's going to change soon. I see the logic in getting Eike enchanting lessons, but I am not sure if we should wait a bit.
4) No WEBMAT stuff.
Protector Plan that includes 2/3 AP from the Nagarythe holiday, three WEBMAT actions and Waystone deployment in Praag. The Lizardmen papers for Max, Branuhulme investigation with Johann, introducing Egrimm to Cython. Nordland infiltration for EIC, Karak Vlag archives for KAU, AV pt2 for Serenity.
Pros:
-No overwork.
-I am very interested in the Vlag archives.
-Nordland infiltration could be useful given the Ulric cult situation.
Cons:
-No Eike actions?
-Leaves one of the Elfcation AP for next turn.
Uncertain:
-Not sure how Cython will react to the introduction. Is interesting, but I can see it going either way.
Protector plan with full Nagarythe holiday, Knightbringer codification, Waystone deployment in Praag and introducing Egrimm to Cython. Schadensumpf support for the EIC, copying the School of Engineers for the KAU and AV pt 2 for Serenity.
I am not sure if the plan is legal, since it seems to include six AP without Overwork and the absence of Eike actions is a bit of a concern. Knightbringer codification is attractive, but we expect it to be politically complicated and it may be better to wait a bit.
An ambitious Protector plan that only does 1/3 of the Nagarythe AP and then does Overwork to also fit Praag Waystone deployment (inviting in some of the Old World's bigshots), examination of the Laurelorn network with dem elves, mastering the rest of the Gray College spellbook, attempting to see through Pall of Darkness and dictating . Auditors for EIC, Imperial School of Engineers copy for KAU, AV for Serenity, Waystone deployment, MAPP practice and stealth training for Eike.
It is a plan that does a ton and I like most of it, even if action economy and coin synergy are not the best. My main gripe is having Max do two Timeless papers, instead of the Fading Lizardmen ones.
Protector Plan with 1 Overwork and 2/3 of the Nagarythe AP. Praag Waystone deployment, Laurelorn tributaries with the elves and three WEBMAT actions (Sylvania pacification, Auditory Seviroscope, introducing Egrimm to Cython). EIC is in the Schadensumpf action, KAU seeks contacts in Lothern, Serenity for AV2. Eike comes to Lothern to check its markets for enchanting mats?
My main questions in regards to this one is doing two different EIC actions with the same individual (Egrimm) and that I am semi-sure that Eike coming to Ulthuan had been shot down before by way of Word of Boney. May be wrong about that, though. Also, the previously cited concerns about the Lothern focus of the KAU action.
Protector Plan, wraps up the whole Elfcation via 1 Overwork, Praag Waystone deployment, Laurelorn tributary deployment and Storm Ward exploration used for combat practice. Lothern books for KAU, Schadensumpf route for EIC, AV pt2 for Serenity. Eike gets training practice in the Storm Ward, tags along for the KAU action, enchanting classes at the Grey College and Khazalid lessons.
Pretty solid plan overall, but the lack of WEBMAT actions is a bit of a concern. Also, I think that Eike may get greater benefits out of being part of the Schadensumpf action than going to Lothern to buy books.
Father plan with a Waystone focus that tries to draft the Damsels for the WP, does a Praag deployment, tries to map the Kislev network, pokes the nexuses in the Forest of Shadows, Waystone mapping in Estalia/Tilea with Johann, Auditory Seviroscope with Egrimm and Max gets dictation on the Lizardmen papers.
I may be counting wrong, but I think that the main issue with this plan, aside from the lack of Elfvacation is that the AP economy here requires at least 1 Overwork that hasn't been listed.
Gambler plan that swaps poking the Forest of Shadows with Knightbringer codification. Otherwise, pretty similar, so the same concerns apply in addition to the Knightbringer related concerns. Not my plan of choice, probably.
Gambler plan that has 4/5 AP focused in Waystones, with simultaneous deployment in Praag, Sylvania and the Blackwater. Last AP goes to Storm Ward exploration, while KAU does Lothern contacts and EIC does the Schadensumpf.
Lack of Ulthuan holidaying and lack of WEBMAT is something of a concern, as noted in previous plans, but my thing here is that a Lothern focused KAU action with Eike tagging along does not make as much sense in a plan in which Mathilde is not going this turn to Ulthuan. Mass deployment may also be tricky, considering that Waystone production is slow for the time being and doing three regions at once may mean no practical progress for the foreseeable future.
In the plus side, no overwork and no future debt. Such plans are rare this turn.
Gambler plan with 1 Overwork. Still has a Waystone focus with Praag deployment, a new Waystone design, Laurelorn tributary deployment and two different networks explored in the same action (can we actually do that?). Everything else is the same as the previous plan.
Gambler plan with 1 Overwork. Mass deployment in Praag, Sylvania and Blackwater. Laurelorn tributaries in the Nordland border. 3 WEBMAT actions (Audioseviroscope with Egrimm, Lizardmen papers with Max, Kurgan weapons with Johann). EIC does the Schadensumpf route and KAU does the Karak Vlag archives.
Not gonna lie, this is one of my favourite proposals so far of the No Elfcation variants, since it does a lot of things that I favour, even if selling Overwork with no Elfcation is likely something of a hard sell. I am probably going to borrow heavily from this one if I decide to make a plan, although the previous issues with trying mass deployment of Waystones likely still apply.
Right, but the thing is Laurelorn doesn't actually give a damn about installing Waystones in their territory in the first place. The magic they have is mostly the magic they want, and when it isn't that's because of Beastmen who need to be killed before it can be fixed. The thing they want, is a connection to siphon power off the network for their magical infrastructure. It doesn't matter to them where the Waystones are so long as they get a cut of the energy that is coming in.
Also, they are elves. The fact that our Waystone is ready now rather than in a hundred years is both surprising and mildly disturbing to their sensibilities, and I suspect they'll be happy to let someone else be the guinea pig.
Note that from what we were told up front, the Eonir seem to have currently deactivated Waystone dependent infrastructure like the dwarves do that could be reactivated with only a few additional Waystones, presumably to fix broken links.
If Mathilde's initial judgment was accurate, then Laurelorn may very much value getting even a relatively small number of Waystones up front.
Unlike everyone else, for whom more regular Waystones are protection from a chronic threat that accrues benefit over the long term, the Eonir may gain benefits by being able to switch on magical infrastructure immediately, like the High King did for the dwarves.
This makes them uniquely suitable for being the first to receive them. They get the greatest, indeed only up front benefit, they may benefit from a small number of new Waystones to replace broken sections of their existing network, and they can also probably use both modes of connectivity, both riverine and Leyline, not wasting the functionality of this expensive model of Waystone.
For Kislev and Black Water, we could probably get away with making a purely riverine variant that could be manufactured in greater volume.
It's also much easier to deploy Waystones in Laurelorn than anywhere else, making it more likely the deployment will succeed, and the re will be experts in hand to trouble shoot any issues that only manifest weeks, months, or years after deployment. On pure practical grounds they're the best location to deploy a prototype Waystone that hasn't been tested in long term use.
We've got our own piece of the network just as the Dwarves do, and if we could bring a few more Waystones online, it could do a lot of good for us - and our friends and allies.
I think that I actually favour Sylvania for initial deployment?
Praag is a fine statement of "FUCK YOU CHAOS" and Boris would be super-grateful for the gesture, but Sylvania is a job that is mostly done and the Waystones would pretty much complete it.
It would show loyalty to the imperial cause, which could be useful if somebody starts questioning Mathilde's loyalties at some point, it would avoid the issues of going first with eonir or dawi (I am convinced that those two need to be done at the same time to avoid prickly pride issues with either) and it means not putting a lot of valuable infrastructure in what is likely going to be the frontline of the next great war against Chaos, which Boris also expects to happen any day now.
Remember that Boris doesn't think that he has time for gradual improvement. That's the whole reasoning behind ordering the murder of his father.
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