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[X] Marry them...
[X] Stay single. Marry for love.
[X] Court Wizard

I wouldn't hate being married to Anton, but we live in an AP-Desert and throwing 'love our husband' into there just wouldn't be right, unless he got to tag along with our other stuff the same way Wolf does.

Actually, @BoneyM, that's as pretty good question; is Mathilde's normal life outside of the actions we undertake going to be including him if he wins, or will he have to complete with the snake juice if we want more than the bare minimum?
 
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I vote for what i think will create the most challenges to overcome and the most interesting scenes.

Therefore the struggle of cultivating a long distance relationship, whilst being the first ever dwarf court wizard, appeals to me on a deep fundamental level.
surely being a Steward of a freshly made three race polity while trying to research things and maintain a long distance relationship would be more of a struggle?
 
[X] Court Wizard
[X] Marry them...
- [X] Reinhild Gerber
[X] Stay single. Marry for love.

Just noticed my last vote was incomplete.
 
I can see that. Thought people would want to have a position that would allow Mathilde to keep a really close eye on the non-Dwarf populations.
Steward would have the direct most hand and eye on their lives for sure, but we do live in the same Karag they do and we're pretty natively paranoid and the other options are either intrigue or wizarding so its definitely not impossible to keep a really close eye with the other options. Less than steward, and harder by a little bit, but doable.
 
Yes but that fails at being interesting.

Economics is my sworn enemy.

I refuse to aid the hydra in anyway.

How is a relationship with Anton going to be particularly more interesting? Given the tone of things, I'm predicting it'll be good for one or two scenes of them being quietly pragmatic about things.
There might be a decent quest chain to find him a mistress Math approves of, I suppose.
 
The more I think about this, the more upsetting I find it. In particular, I find the idea that Anton is secretly in love with us but proposed the way he did because he think's we're practical to be icky. As it is he made an honest suggestion where both parties would be aware of what they were getting into. If your interpretation is correct and he does have romantic feelings for Math then his offer turns into a giant fucking red flag.

Why don't we take things at face value: Math and Anton are not in love with each other. Math explicitly states that she doesn't love him romantically.
Anton proposed the way he did because he's in a place he doesn't want to be confronted by a choice where he isn't particularly keen on any of the options. Marrying Math is the least undesirable option.
Their relation has explicitly been described as being like brother and sister.
Then I think where we disagree is the idea that love is a binary Yes/No, with a checklist of things that must be true before two people can be in love. I think the Greeks were on to something identifying love as four overlapping types.
A red flag for what? I suppose it would be deceptive of him to conceal that - IF he knew he felt that way.
Seems more likely to me he was testing the waters by proposing a marriage, and his deluge of apologies afterwards were covering for Mathilde's complete non-attraction to him. But he isn't aware that she isn't attracted to anyone at all, not just him.
Attraction is not love. All of Mathilde's understanding of love comes from cheap romance novels. She has no understanding of having a family that wouldn't want to burn her at the stake.
All face value statements that she does not love him that way and that they're like brother and sister are made entirely from her perspective, and come from those preconceptions.
She could be right about herself. She could also be wrong.
 
Voting for
[] Marry them... without any specific target seems like spite voting to me. I don't want to anger anyone or insult anyone, but voting for the sake of another vote not winning, not because you like what you vote seems just spite voting.

As a player, I have no interest in seeing the marry me play out, this just doesn't interest me as a plot, so I voted for literally anything else.

ICly, this also just seems like a horrible idea to me: leaving aside the fact that a jumped up peasant marrying high into nobility is going to create problems for everyone involved and would be a time and action sink as well as the difficulties in a long distance relationship, Mathilde would also be expected to birth an heir, a likely magical heir and so automatically punted to the Colleges, seems like a failure to think long term to me. Additionally the kiddies, even if not magical, will need to be birthed and raised and god forbid being pregnant in fucking K8P or raising them in any kind of normal way in an active warzone. Moreover, the future is K8P and thus fucking Skavens, cutting things off cleanly and not having any exploitable weakness or relationship susceptible to assassination/subversion/kidnapping plots seems to me to be just common sense in this situation and the best thing someone could do for their friends and loved ones in order for them to not be involved in said plots. The shares already give an "in" in the EIC if we want to keep an eye on it, going further would just be overkill.
 
Then I think where we disagree is the idea that love is a binary Yes/No, with a checklist of things that must be true before two people can be in love. I think the Greeks were on to something identifying love as four overlapping types.
A red flag for what? I suppose it would be deceptive of him to conceal that - IF he knew he felt that way.
Seems more likely to me he was testing the waters by proposing a marriage, and his deluge of apologies afterwards were covering for Mathilde's complete non-attraction to him. But he isn't aware that she isn't attracted to anyone at all, not just him.
Attraction is not love. All of Mathilde's understanding of love comes from cheap romance novels. She has no understanding of having a family that wouldn't want to burn her at the stake.
All face value statements that she does not love him that way and that they're like brother and sister are made entirely from her perspective, and come from those preconceptions.
She could be right about herself. She could also be wrong.

Its a red flag because it implies asymmetric awareness of the basic assumptions of the relationship being proposed.

You can't spend very much time actively involved in the poly community without picking up on at least some of the various flavors love can take. However, this:

I'm not sure how to feel about all of this; best approximation would be "extremely flattered". Physical attraction doesn't even factor into it. Mathilde been avoiding the romance novel side of things because Reality Does Not Work That Way, but the living breathing romance novel is standing right there. And neither can see it because they both think the other is too practical for that sort of thing.

Does not, in fact, match any of the evidence we've since we met Anton.
If people were voting for marrying Anton because they wanted to see a marriage of convenience between two friends, that would be one thing. As I said, I wouldn't mind a questline where we found him a suitable mistress.
I can't say I'm particularly thrilled with the idea of producing an heir and a spare (edit: this is unrelated to the mistress thing, just me pointing out a reason I don't want to see Math in a marriage of convenience with a noble).

But the idea that this would be the foundation for a romance? No. Nope nope nope nope nope.
 
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Sure. But most people are not voting for the Marry Me Now option, either.

And frankly I see it as second best to letting the situation develop over time, to see what happens.
I could actually get behind keeping a close friendship with Anton and seeing what might develop, and if something arises I wouldn't be opposed, but right now I'm not seeing it.
 
Vote Tally.

The Marry Me faction is at two votes behind second place again.
Adhoc vote count started by Sinsystems on Oct 3, 2019 at 3:05 PM, finished with 1681 posts and 311 votes.
 
Steward would have the direct most hand and eye on their lives for sure, but we do live in the same Karag they do and we're pretty natively paranoid and the other options are either intrigue or wizarding so its definitely not impossible to keep a really close eye with the other options. Less than steward, and harder by a little bit, but doable.
True. Most people here probably want to go deeper into reclaiming K8P for the Dawi and the court wizard position would probably be more involved in that than the steward.
 
Whew. What a difference sleep can make. So. Anton. This vote wasn't sitting right with me so I did some digging and... may have got a bit overzealous. Bear with me here, the quotes jump around in time a bit.

The two times we've visited him in the middle of holding court, he's immediately postponed everything to chat with Mathilde.

The first time that happened, the talk lasted until well after sunset.

That's something he doesn't have with any of his prospective suitors. The closest is the one who likes talking about guns, and Wilhelmina herself is obsessively focused on economics.

And when Mathilde went off on the Karak Eight Peaks expedition, the only reason he could come up with not to run off to war with her was his responsibility to Blutdorf, where his father was training him to be the next Baron.

So he towed her around for half the day to find a going away present.

We're looking at this as a practical thing. "Who should Anton settle down with so he can be happy?" But we've kind of missed the forest for the trees. Why are we assuming he'd be happy settling down like traditional Baron at all?

He went to Ostermark for mercenaries. He came back with an elf riding a dragon. He's content and happy settling peasant disputes and doing stewardy things in Blutdorf, but he goes back to being genuinely vibrant whenever Mathilde rolls around to throw some curve balls at him.

Imagine his answer if asked the question, "Hey, you want to ride a gyrocopter down to Karak Eight Peaks, stay for a season? Just to see the sights?"

It's weird to think about in a Quest Mechanics sense, because as Mathilde we definitely should have the freedom to make the big choices. Anything else would be 1) QM railroading, 2) super creepy, and 3) not fun.

But as far as Anton Quest is concerned, the Marry for Love option is right there. And half the questers are busy yelling at each other that they're going ruin their platonic friendship with asexual-aromantic-Mathilde forever and Blutdorf will fall into ruin and she'll run off to fight Skaven deep beneath the earth to avoid the awkwardness, and then the Mods have to step in...

Sorry. Too real for a second there.

But Anton is very charming. Of course he would frame marriage as a practical thing, because he thinks Mathilde is a practical person. Almost no one knows how many cheesy adventure and romance novels she's read, let alone currently owns. But again: his response to her "I'm going to war!" declaration was basically, "Me too!... wait... I guess I can't. Darn it." At which point Mathilde obliterated his spine with a hug.

I'm not sure how to feel about all of this; best approximation would be "extremely flattered". Physical attraction doesn't even factor into it. Mathilde been avoiding the romance novel side of things because Reality Does Not Work That Way, but the living breathing romance novel is standing right there. And neither can see it because they both think the other is too practical for that sort of thing.

So yeah. Having seen it all laid out like that, I think I can finally settle confidently on:

[] Marry me...
- [] Soon.
[] Stay single. Marry for love.

One is direct. The other indirect, with a chance that he'll find someone else in process. But letting him know that she is in favour of marriage for love is basically letting all the cats out of a bag she didn't even know she was holding.

Because it looks to me like the Anton Compass points in exactly one direction, no matter how many powerful and influential women throw themselves at him. Even if he is easy to charm, hah.
(Sneak Edit: Okay, maybe the Anton Compass is bad metaphor because it wobbles a lot in the presence of flirting. I meant romantically! Commitment! Other words!)

(I can't even decide on an advisory position anymore, even the possibility that Anton might just pick up and spend some time in K8P totally upended my ability to even make a decision on that end)
All very well and good, except that even if Anton is interested in Mathilde that does nothing to obligate Mathilde to return or act on that interest unless she would naturally, and there is not one single moment in any previous update I can think of in which she's thought of him in romantic terms or shown an interest in him beyond friendship. To me this kinda comes across as saying 'Mathilde should marry Anton because I think he's interest in her' without taking into account what Mathilde might feel about him, and the only reason she's even considering it is because the topic being brought up has made her concerned about her own prospects. Or to put it another way, Mathilde saying 'marry me' would kind of come across as her going 'oh crap, I'm single' and marrying literally the first person to catch her eye; if the topic of Anton getting married hadn't come up? The idea of her marrying him likely would never have crossed her mind.

Not exactly a solid foundation for a relationship.

And then you have the issue that, while Mathilde and Anton are unquestionably friends, they have very different views on the world and how they approach things. Mathilde will torture someone for information, slit their throat, and then perform an autopsy on their corpse- not hyperbole, she has done all of those things- if she feels it is necessary. Anton, on the other hand, literally has two traits listed as 'Kind' and 'Honest'. If Anton is genuinely interested in Mathilde, then it suggests to me he either doesn't realise the sort of things Mathilde will do and has done, or does but hasn't properly internalised what it actually means. In either case, it means Mathilde either won't be able talk about her work at all with him- and keeping having something as big as that as a 'can't talk about this ever' topic is a good way to undermine a relationship- or will end up clashing with him over it.

And lastly, there's the obstacle that the two of them would be living in completely separate cities/provinces. Yes, they would be able to visit one another via gyrocopter contact, but building a strong relationship will be a lot harder for a couple that only sees one another once or twice a week. Long-distance relationships frequently fall apart in real life, and that's with access to communications like phones or email and with pre-existing romantic connections. Trying to build a relationship up from scratch in a situation when the two parties involved have even less contact seems doomed to failure and frustration.

Basically, if Mathilde marries I want it be because she decided to naturally, not because it's for the good of the other person and the topic got bumped to the forefront of her mind, and I want it to be to someone she can build a strong relationship with and share the whole of her life with rather than just 'safe' topics on scattered days here and there.
 
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The idea that Anton left Roswita and spent a day talking and having fun with us because he secretly loves us has deeply unpleasant implications.

It implies that he wasn't leaving because he is a man of principle and refuses to work for someone who mistreats his friends. It implies that he spent a day talking with us not because we are friends and spending enjoyable time with a friend who expects to leave on a long journey is how good friends behave, but because he "loves us". It implies that he does not have the spine and decency to be honest when he asked for us to marry him. It implies a lot of very negative things that I don't think are true, at all.

Men can be friends with Women.

Mathilda's motivation for marrying him is not particularly great either. She doesn't love him, explicitly. Instead, she is willing to settle for him because she fears that she will not marry otherwise.
As if one day when she lounges on a mountain of gold, having made the empire safer for everyone, brought the Dwarves back into prominence, revolutionised magic and ended the threat of Silvania for another generation she will look back and despair because she didn't marry a man and pop out children. As if these accomplishments and she with them are worthless because she didn't marry someone.

Mathilda's worth is not defined by having married an eligible bachelor. Fear of missing out does not mean she should settle.
 
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