Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Hell I think belegar would hate the idea of a civil war, because that would definitely isolate k8p again, and he doesn't want that.
He just wants answers and he hopes they are good answers...
And Thorgrim has good answers! We know this but we the reader can't say.
So if thorgrim just tells belegar what the magic is actually used for belegar would be happy with it, I am sure of it.
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- Finland
Sure, but that knowledge is for High King + heir only, and we all know how reasonable dwarves are in sharing secrets.
We'll see how it goes.
Do we know this? Because the thread has "concluded" it's a generational secret but I haven't yet seen a post that states that.
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- Germany
Nah.
The point of the whole thing is that we need the information for our Project, so it can't stay between two dwarves, it must come with a permission to share it, or not at all.
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- Earth
This is all we have on that.
Everything else is extrapolation and guesswork.
Even if that is true which as @Tobtorp points out it might not be that leaves Thorgrim with two options that are not civil war:
- Declare Belegar his heir then tell him
- Break his oath in order to tell Belegar than go slayer
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This option includes swearing Belegar to secrecy as well, so it won't be shared with the project.
"never known to more than two living Dawi"
Hell, there's a third way. Thorgrim breaks the oath and doesn't go slayer because he realizes that it's no shame to save his kingdom by breaking an antiquated oath...
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- Utrecht
Even if Belegar is sworn to secrecy, Mathilde knows Belegar well enough and can get a good read on him.
It would be enough to draw the conclusion of "yes, we would like that energy very much."
Well yeah, it would be a failure for our purposes, but a political win for Belegar and not civil war
True, I do not think it is likely though. Thorgrim is... a bit of a stickler for his oaths even by dwarf standards.
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4th option: Thorgrim tells Belegar nothing at all in the belief Belegar will take any option but a Civil War. After all he knows the energy flows for good reason and truly that ought to be enough.
Roll for Belegar composure.
Well yeah assuming we do nothing but ask the question, but it should be noted Mathilde is not a dwarf (no matter what the Council of Ancestor priests decided to salve their pride), she is more than capable of implying: "Answer or there will be Civil War." Does Thorgrim trust his understanding of Belegar enough to call the bluff of a 27 intrigue Grey Magister?
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I expect dwarf stubbornness to win against any whiff of coercion.
Boney actually confirmed a while back that the second dwarf to know the secret of the waystones was the Heir.
I don't, dwarfs are not toddlers, it's not 'I won't tell you since you're trying to make me' they are obsessed with personal and social honor, telling us and then going slayer would be the sacrifice of personal honor to maintain so higher ideals. I very much think that push comes to shove Thorgrim is going to break before he becomes the king that broke the Karaz Ankor.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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- Vermont
Though it is still an open question of if 'No one other than the High King and Heir may know' is custom or Oaths, and what exactly falls under the Oaths if there are any.
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- Finland
After thousand years, i suspect the difference is very much academic.
Thorgrim is extremely unlikely to just tell anyone, under any circumstances, other than their chosen heir.
But if he does tell, there's no really telling how much will come out once flood gates open.
Thorgrim is extremely unlikely to just tell anyone, under any circumstances, other than their chosen heir.
But if he does tell, there's no really telling how much will come out once flood gates open.
I wouldn't be so certain about it. If it's not an oath, it's more a tradition and thorgrim knows traditions need to change I'm pretty sure. Also the circumstances changed, before now the knowledge about the energy and the runes of valaya would have been another nail in the coffin of the karaz ankor, while now it's the beginning of something better.
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- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So the best way for us to learn the secret is...
Well. We are a dawi, ain't we?
Well. We are a dawi, ain't we?
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- Utrecht
Hmm, there has probably never been a High Queen.
The Gospodawi will return to their ancient prominence.
If that happens, it'll make this Egrimm quote strangely (and suspiciously) prophetic:
Are we sure he isn't a Tzeentchian cultist?
Karag Dum's knowledge of the waystones implies it is custom. The creation of the waystones would have been a mega-project during the Golden Age. It would be impossible for the Karaz Ankor to muster the dwarf-power to create the waystones without it being common knowledge.
It should have been easy to guess that the waystones were being used to power the relics of the Ancestors too. There are so many Runelords that Karaz-a-Karak and Ulthuan would have needed to lie to that it's all but impossible for it to have been a secret. It would also be difficult to get the Kings of the Karaz Ankor to agree to the nexuses being built unless they have a good idea of what it does too.
The most sensible explanation here is that they forgot it during the Time of Woes. It still seems odd though.
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- Finland
Karag Dum knowing does not necessarily mean it is custom.
It shows that Karag Dum knew, but then every hold, every king, and every Runelord presumably knew at one point.
And Karag Dum were known to be radicals (and the information never spread beyond Karag Dum for whatever reason).
But knowledge gets lost, people die before it gets passed on, or the apprentice is judged unworthy, or any number of other reasons why something like this gets forgotten when it is not written down, or even if it was written down but the writings were lost when the mountins got re arranged.
It shows that Karag Dum knew, but then every hold, every king, and every Runelord presumably knew at one point.
And Karag Dum were known to be radicals (and the information never spread beyond Karag Dum for whatever reason).
But knowledge gets lost, people die before it gets passed on, or the apprentice is judged unworthy, or any number of other reasons why something like this gets forgotten when it is not written down, or even if it was written down but the writings were lost when the mountins got re arranged.