Yeah, the Gambler is looking pretty clutch right now.
I actually kind of wonder if any other gods might be sticking their oars in for this one.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Yeah, the Gambler is looking pretty clutch right now.
I actually kind of wonder if any other gods might be sticking their oars in for this one.
Yeah, but then what do we put the coin on? Gambler to hopefully fix the stone or Protector for the druchi-killing?
Right, I hadn't considered the Coin. I'd still wait first to see the specifics, but I really want to have the Protector on the Elfcation...
28 isn't very unlucky IMO, sub-10 is very unlucky. We rolled mediocre across the board with individual highs and lows more or less mirroring each other. If we had known what the dice would be this is pretty much what we should have assumed we would roll.
10
20
28
52
52
60
72
78
92
Taking them in pairs
10+92 = 102
20+78 = 98
28+72 = 100
52+ 60 = 112
52 +N/A = 52
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- Location
- Russia
Sub-10 isn't that unlucky. With 9 dice there is 1-0.9^9=60%+ chance to get 10 or less at least once.
Fair enough, it's not very unlucky, it's just unlucky that it was on a very difficult component.
Yeah I think we are pretty much going to have to shelve that and go for one of the others. Really it's impressive that we managed to reverse-engineer one part of the Golden Age stone, the rune, so even if I'm right I do not think we should be too down on it. When drowning few people complain if the bucket you hand them is not as good as their legacy bucket from the Before Times.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
but i just accepted an order for 5000 chicken nuggets.
we're breaking ground on the farm next week!
well, we're applying for planning permission for the farm next week.
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Depends on if this is a lasting effect that would impact on future designs.
Otherwise we could try to make other designs with the reverse engineered storage but another part switched.
It depends on the trade offs involved. For example, we could try a similar design with a Collegiate foundation and it would be pretty similar in terms of functionality and even easier and cheaper to make at the cost of potential political issues.
Similarly, depending on whether next design round we can get some clarification on what Baba Niedzwenka's comments about what spirit deals may cost meant and whether the deal is per Waystone or a one off for a river, we could reconsider that method of transmission. It's not the option I'd have first picked, but it would still very likely be overall cheaper than a high cost runic storage design, and at worst probably equally as expensive if the spirits all demand a high cost.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Ah, I see this may be less a matter of "what does your ideal Waystone look like" and more "what can you get working, at all?"
Me: Yeah I think we are pretty much going to have to shelve that and go for one of the others.
You: The thread is doomposting.
Or is the only acceptable amount of reading into the rolls 'not at all'?
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There may be more dice rolls. There may be the opportunity to fix up problems or even swap out components. We just don't know yet.
- Location
- Argentina
Exactly, that too. I think that we will have even more dice rolls next to figure out how to fix these problems, and oh, boy, we will have a damned lot of people rolling dice to fix these things.
I am cautiously optimistic.
Excuse me for exaggerating for humorous effect, god damn. Wasn't trying to single you out, just laughing at the initial panic over the low rolls.
Boney explicitly said this is just the start of the process so it's very possible anything that went wrong can be salvaged.
Fair enough, I was just trying to work though what a worst case scenario would look like in terms to AP next turn and the world where we have to take it from the top is the one that gives us the most trouble.
Honestly, there's probably gonna be a solid push to get a pure leyline or river waystone that can be made more cheaply around these more central dual waystones even if it *works*, so AP hell is as it ever is.
To distract from the rolls, a thought about what we learned from Boney about the Sylvanian Waystone network (and possibly others that were upstream of Mordheim).
We know there are little orphaned sections of network there, pumping magic downstream until it hits a blockage and starts building up in an unlucky Waystone, essentially sucking up the Winds and ambient Dhar in one location and producing even more, possibly a lot more than in the Waystone at the end of the chain.
Some of those surviving Waystones may be in the middle of nowhere, but others will be inside castles that used to belong to the old evil Sylvabian aristocracy.
Now, it sucks for the people who live there, but those Waystones may do a lot more good if they're removed from where they are and deployed somewhere else. That way they'd stop making a worse problem somewhere else, and stop charging up Dhar time bombs. This is something we can do know we can reconnect Waystones. As many of those castles are in rivers, if we can make a cheap mass production riverine design then we might not have to leave them unprotected for long. The pre-Vortex elves and humans survived for centuries or millennia with no Waystones at all, so while it's not a great scenario it's something that can be lived with for a while on a triage basis.
Thinking more broadly about this,we could do this elsewhere, replacing Waystones at the end of chains that are on rivers with a riverine Waystone and removing any Waystones directly downstreamof them that are in low population density areas.
With the Golden Age Waystones freed up by this we can do some of the things that Boney mentioned like purifying Mordheim or the Black Water.
if we have a functioning dual transmission design then in many places we may be able to be more efficient in our use of Waystones. If we need to install a line of leystones Waystones to reach some where we can do that with the recycled Golden Age ones, then install the set of Waystones to cleanse the city in question. If we use a dual transmission Waystone as the final step in the connecting line, after establishing all the leyline we can then remove the rest of the Waystones in the connecting line.
Essentially, we should start thinking about our options to rearrange existing stones to where they'd be most immediately valuable rather than where they've happened to survive, and consider the options to 'trade up' Waystones when considering existing designs.
We know there are little orphaned sections of network there, pumping magic downstream until it hits a blockage and starts building up in an unlucky Waystone, essentially sucking up the Winds and ambient Dhar in one location and producing even more, possibly a lot more than in the Waystone at the end of the chain.
Some of those surviving Waystones may be in the middle of nowhere, but others will be inside castles that used to belong to the old evil Sylvabian aristocracy.
Now, it sucks for the people who live there, but those Waystones may do a lot more good if they're removed from where they are and deployed somewhere else. That way they'd stop making a worse problem somewhere else, and stop charging up Dhar time bombs. This is something we can do know we can reconnect Waystones. As many of those castles are in rivers, if we can make a cheap mass production riverine design then we might not have to leave them unprotected for long. The pre-Vortex elves and humans survived for centuries or millennia with no Waystones at all, so while it's not a great scenario it's something that can be lived with for a while on a triage basis.
Thinking more broadly about this,we could do this elsewhere, replacing Waystones at the end of chains that are on rivers with a riverine Waystone and removing any Waystones directly downstreamof them that are in low population density areas.
With the Golden Age Waystones freed up by this we can do some of the things that Boney mentioned like purifying Mordheim or the Black Water.
if we have a functioning dual transmission design then in many places we may be able to be more efficient in our use of Waystones. If we need to install a line of leystones Waystones to reach some where we can do that with the recycled Golden Age ones, then install the set of Waystones to cleanse the city in question. If we use a dual transmission Waystone as the final step in the connecting line, after establishing all the leyline we can then remove the rest of the Waystones in the connecting line.
Essentially, we should start thinking about our options to rearrange existing stones to where they'd be most immediately valuable rather than where they've happened to survive, and consider the options to 'trade up' Waystones when considering existing designs.
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Ideally I'd want pure leyline and pure riverine designs that are cheap and spammable, using the current, more complicated and expensive (but higher quality) design to move the magic between rivers and leylines.
Something like Flower/Inductor + Wizard Rune (or carved if we really want to make it as cheap as possible) + Grey Lord + Cheap Material + Leyline would have 1 Moderate difficulty, 2-3 Simple and 1-2 Trivial components and have very few potential bottlenecks; and the cost would be 2-3 Low, and 2-3 Trivial/Negligible. A similar river variant would have the transmission be possibly more difficult/costly, but make the Foundation easier and cheaper, and wouldn't require a storage component at all, so the end result would be similar.
For context, the current design has 2 Very Difficult designs (one of which will eventually get easier), 1 Moderate, 2 simple, with some more potential bottlenecks; and the costs are 1 Moderate, 3 Low, 1 Negligible.
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Time For A New Edition
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Time For A New Edition
[Excerpt from 2491 Edition of A Guide to the Major Dwarf Holds of the Karaz Ankor, taught in the University of Altdorf]
...after almost two centuries of a well-concealed malaise about the decline of the Karaz Ankor, recent years have seen a sudden reversal. The stunning success of the Karak Eight Peaks Expedition saw the partial reclamation of a major hold lost thousands of years ago. But with more than half of the eponymous eight peaks bristling with enemies and an underground connection with another nearby old hold filled to the brim with greenskins, there were doubts about whether this success was a fluke of luck rather than a sign of things to come. But a handful of years later saw the shattering of such doubts with the decisive reclamation of the rest of the hold and the utter destruction of the million-strong Waaagh that sallied from Black Crag to crush the newly-reclaimed hold the day after.
As Karak Eight Peaks secured its position, Everpeak sent forth a large army of craftsdwarfs and various experts not to war, but to rebuilding. At a pace that would seem uncharacteristic of any dwarven project, the large Karak was restored from millenia of greenskin occupation in mere years. Shortly after that, the expedition all the way into the Chaos Wastes to ascertain the fate of Karag Dum discovered the magical trickery that had abducted and trapped Karak Vlag in the realm of Chaos for almost two centuries. Lady Magister Mathilde Weber uncovered the nature of the grand spell and devised a way to undo it, bringing the lost Karak back into reality and sending the daemons besieging it scrambling for a means to sustain themselves. The Expedition was ready for them, however, and after a great battle total victory was had. Astonishingly, most of Karak Vlag's population had survived untainted, bolstering the Karaz Ankor yet further.
Though the Karag Dum Expedition returned with the grim news that Karag Dum had resorted to some kind of desperate means to spite Chaos as much as possible before its eventual fall, the fact remained that the Karaz Ankor had achieved a much better outcome than it had ever imagined possible.
Today, the two "new" Karaks are remarkably different from the norm, but no less interesting than the others.
Karak Vlag was forced to adopt extreme wariness and practicality to survive an impossible siege, but rather than being morose, they seem stubbornly defiant of the pressures and dangers they face. With Karak Kadrin being rather far to the south, Karak Vlag finds its closest ally and connection in Kislev, a country which is all too happy to have a dwarf hold watching over High Pass and as a prized trading partner.
Karak Eight Peaks is a crossroads, a hub, and a reflection of its nature as a newly established hold built on the ruins and legacy of an ancient, prestigious hold. Thousands of humans and thousands of halflings proudly call it home, as do a newly-discovered species of highly-intelligent giant spider. Even a number of wizards dwell here, with a number of wizard towers clearly visible to those who look for them. Travelers and traders pass through here from many directions, including south to Karak Azul, west to Barak Varr, and east towards the Dark Lands and Cathay. Goods and people travel through Death Pass while watched over by the Winter Wolves of Ulric, passing through an ancient dwarven tunnel before boarding dwarven steam vessels to travel down a river towards Barak Varr. From there, the newly-established canal allows for ships to travel to Zhufbar and Stirland and beyond via rivers, or to board a sailing ship and venture out into the ocean in the west. And with the establishment of a major branch of the Imperial Gunnery School in Karak Eight Peaks and steady growth of farmlands worked by diligent halflings in the Eastern Valley between the mountains, the message Karak Eight Peaks sends is that it is here to stay.
The canal project spearheaded by Karak Kadrin and Ostermark only reinforce the impression that rather than decline, the Karaz Ankor is becoming more connected and lively than it has in living memory...
---
Regimand closed the book, sighing in amusement and satisfaction. He never would have imagined that his former apprentice would have taken her bold new direction in life with the dwarves to such extremes. Knowing her, she probably ended up there partly by accident. Still, that she wasn't content to rest on her well-earned laurels just yet was nice to see. Tackling such an ambitious and infamously impenetrable mystery as the Waystones was just like her, he thought. Though he wasn't sure what would be worse: that she might end up genuinely upset that she had failed like so many others before her (including the likes of elven archmages, no less), or that she might end up actually succeeding, and feel like she had to keep performing miracles just to meet the expectations she and others would place on her.
Perhaps she'd take a break from such absurdity and try to solve the mystery of creating Orbs of Sorcery? Regimand couldn't help but snort in amusement. Yes, she'd take a break from banging her head futilely against one wall to bang her head against another, slightly less absurd wall.
He sighed wistfully. She really had come such an incredibly long way from the scared, wide-eyed ten-year-old girl who all but latched onto him as they rode away from Kelham.