Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Ideally I'd want pure leyline and pure riverine designs that are cheap and spammable, using the current, more complicated and expensive (but higher quality) design to move the magic between rivers and leylines.
Agreed as well. Pure leyline has the advantage of being cheaper and easier, which makes it undeniably better for all parts of the network that aren't on a river. And pure riverine has the advantage of not needing a connection to the existing network at all, and thus being possible to set down in the middle of stone-less places that really need it without having to crawl from the edges.

(And the dual one takes advantage of Caledor's awesomely powerful leyline-building abilities to create a section of the network that can function afterwards even while disconnected. Hm. Some potential for rerouting into separate networks there?)
 
To distract from the rolls, a thought about what we learned from Boney about the Sylvanian Waystone network (and possibly others that were upstream of Mordheim).

We know there are little orphaned sections of network there, pumping magic downstream until it hits a blockage and starts building up in an unlucky Waystone, essentially sucking up the Winds and ambient Dhar in one location and producing even more, possibly a lot more than in the Waystone at the end of the chain.

Some of those surviving Waystones may be in the middle of nowhere, but others will be inside castles that used to belong to the old evil Sylvabian aristocracy.

Now, it sucks for the people who live there, but those Waystones may do a lot more good if they're removed from where they are and deployed somewhere else. That way they'd stop making a worse problem somewhere else, and stop charging up Dhar time bombs. This is something we can do know we can reconnect Waystones. As many of those castles are in rivers, if we can make a cheap mass production riverine design then we might not have to leave them unprotected for long. The pre-Vortex elves and humans survived for centuries or millennia with no Waystones at all, so while it's not a great scenario it's something that can be lived with for a while on a triage basis.

Thinking more broadly about this,we could do this elsewhere, replacing Waystones at then end of chains that are on rivers with a riverine Waystone and removing any Waystones directly downstreamof them that are in low population density areas.

With the Golden Age Waystones freed up by this we can do some of the things that Boney mentioned like purifying Mordheim or the Black Water.

if we have a functioning dual transmission design then in many places we may be able to be more efficient in our use of Waystones. If we need to install a line of leystones Waystones to reach some where we can do that with the recycled Golden Age ones, then install the set of Waystones to cleanse the city in question. If we use a dual transmission Waystone as the final step in the connecting line, after establishing all the leyline we can then remove the rest of the Waystones in the connecting line.

Essentially, we should start thinking about our options to rearrange existing stones to where they'd be most immediately valuable rather than where they've happened to survive, and consider the options to 'trade up' Waystones when considering existing designs.

If we are going to move stones I think it would be less of a political hot potato to do so from places no one cares like the Badlands, no one lives here but Greenskins.
 
[X] Plan Building A Better Future (With reverse engineering)

Edit: Did not see the vote closed but surprised to win.
 
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Another thought looking at the rolls. It seems to make designing pure riverine Waystones without any storage a lot more attractive, as there are fewer rolls so a lower chance that something goes badly wrong.

If we are going to move stones I think it would be less of a political hot potato to do so from places no one cares like the Badlands, no one lives here but Greenskins.

Sylvania has the advantage that we've already conquered the place. Also, the functioning off-Network stones there are actually manufacturing Dhar by sending the Winds to a blocked Waystone where they're converted into it.

In terms of the total amount of Dhar in Sylvania, they're currently a net negative.

In some ways, knowing what we do now, leaving them active is also a bit problematic. Particularly with Stirland, trying, I think, to resettle previously unoccupied land having Waystones that clean one area by making it a worse problem somewhere else may be more of a problem than it was before. Those sites where Dhar is spilling out into the environment seem like the kind of places that would often create problems rather than just sitting there passively being toxic.

They're also easy to find, as we know many of them are in castles so we can just start from there and look for leylines. In the Badlands it would probably be much harder to find them.
 
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Honestly, if it turns out that we don't get a working prototype this turn, rather than delay the Elfternship or immediately trying again, the thing I'd be interested in doing next turn is exploring the Kislev network to see if we can figure out whether or not we can hook into their leylines. If yes, fantastic. If no, then we can invest in optimizing our next Waystone design for their use case: I care very much about healing Eastern Stirland, but the faster we start pushing back the frontier, the more depth Kislev has to defend itself with in the next war. So it's worth us figuring out what we're working with in Kislev, and whether a mass-produced leyline model will work.
 
Speaking of the badlands, I was thinking of the haunted rocks idea people had with the apparitions, and it would be *very* funny to airdrop a bunch of monoliths full of apparitions programmed to hunt greenskins into the southern badlands every decade or so and watch all the Waaaghs flow south since they hear there's a high quality fight down there.
 
I wonder if Laurelorn's piece of the network can be interfaced with using the Leyline password or if they have their own? They certainly don't use the riverine method, considering what they brought to the table when we did that action.
Laurelorn's network isn't different to the rest of the network as with the Karaz Ankor network. It's definitely not an entirely different network, like with Nehekhara. Tor Lithanel feeds into Fort Solace. I don't what it fed into before Fort Solace was created, but it indicates the High Elves can reorientate their nexuses, which are probably far more secure than waystones.

Shame I can't actually find the comment right now.
Here is the comment. There's context surrounding it, but Boney said you could pick a forest to do it in.

And every Elector Count would support a fourth claimant that has the ability and the desire to actually take and hold that land from whatever gribbly currently calls it home.

I would imagine that Learning stat would be added to the rolls, and I doubt that any Grey Lords have that low.
Ulthuan sent help too! Though if they sent the Archmage equivalent of Zlata I swear I will personally break the Vortex.

So it's worth us figuring out what we're working with in Kislev, and whether a mass-produced leyline model will work.
That seems like a good idea. Though I'd like to investigate rune alternatives with Zlata before we start poking Kislev for what we need to help them. Their contribution is just kinda sad. Maybe this time it will work.
 
Honestly, if it turns out that we don't get a working prototype this turn, rather than delay the Elfternship or immediately trying again, the thing I'd be interested in doing next turn is exploring the Kislev network to see if we can figure out whether or not we can hook into their leylines. If yes, fantastic. If no, then we can invest in optimizing our next Waystone design for their use case: I care very much about healing Eastern Stirland, but the faster we start pushing back the frontier, the more depth Kislev has to defend itself with in the next war. So it's worth us figuring out what we're working with in Kislev, and whether a mass-produced leyline model will work.

Worst case, we could always superimpose the actual Kislev and Vortex networks, if we don't know how to connect new waystones to their network
 
Does Drakenhof(town or castle) have a nearby river? It'd be pretty satisfying to drop our first waystone there.

Gotta keep putting nails in that coffin, the vampires keep trying to get out.
 
For a Kislev optimised model, I'd say the locations of the Lynsk and the Tobol and their tributaries, plus the pre-existing relations the Hag Witches should have with their river spirits strongly suggests that a mass produced pure riverine spirit design would probably meet their immediate needs best.

To be confident of best results we'd need to know a bit more about how river spirits define their rivers. If a rvver can have multiple channels and stay the same river, as when there are islands in the river, then it may be possible to dig such a channel in Eremgrad that flows over the Waystone there and a river spirit can just deposit the Dhar on top of it. The Ice Witches may not like that though.

Another option I don't know if we've considered before is if you could just build a Waystone directly on top of an existing leyline and have it inject Dhar into it without needing a code. The command we just learned is to grow a new leyline to a Waystone, but that may be unnecessary if there's already a leyline present.

The reason I mention that is because Erengrad is north of the Lynsk river, and Kislev city is south of it, so the leyline must cross the river. That means if we can do the above and we can just put a new or recycled leyline Waystone on the banks or at the bottom of the river and have a river spirit drop the Dhar on top of it.

Even if we can grow new leylines from the Kislev network I think the river spirit design is superior for their current needs.

And even if we can't channel the riverine Waystones into the Kislevite network I think it's better on the Sea of Claws than on Kislev.
 
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I mean if the prototype doesn't work you just try again? A lot of things we use nowadays, very much did not work 'on the first try'.
 
[X] Plan Building A Better Future (With reverse engineering)
-[X] [CAPSTONE] Stone Flower
-[X] [RUNE] Dwarven
-[X] [STORAGE] Reverse-engineered
-[X] [FOUNDATION] Grey Lord
-[X] [TRANSMISSION] Both (Jade Riverine)
 
Thread madness is growing on me. We can try to dominate the greenskins through the We.

Make an expendable army to take over other threats.

Interesting
Yeah, creating a fanatical army of 'heretic' goblins worshipping the We and fighting for control of the forests from... everything... would be fun, but the Feaster is a rather unpleasant god so I'm not sure it would actually work out. Maybe if we actually did get a wizard-we, so it could murder an arachnorak with magic and take it's place?
 
Yeah, creating a fanatical army of 'heretic' goblins worshipping the We and fighting for control of the forests from... everything... would be fun, but the Feaster is a rather unpleasant god so I'm not sure it would actually work out. Maybe if we actually did get a wizard-we, so it could murder an arachnorak with magic and take it's place?

We are an invisible gun witch with a cannon sword

The We doesn't need to do anything but pose menacingly while we murderize the thing.
 
Just another thought I had about spirit based riverine Waystones.

The way they work is that they dump the Winds and any Dhar into the river.

Then, using the spirit's ability to teleport anything in the river to any other point in the river, the Dhar is moved to where it can be safely drained away by a leyline Waystone.

Does this mean, if you make the right deal with the spirit, that the river can serve as one enormous battery?

If you're standing in/on the river and you know how to ask the spirit in the right way, they can teleport large amounts of the desired Wind(s) of Magic into the water around directly beneath you and keep it there long enough to tap it. It also seems likely that a river spirit could churn their waters strongly enough in that location to release the saturated Winds.

It would almost certainly cost more, but if the Colleges go north to Kislev to fight the next Chaos invasion, then this option could well be be very useful to have, and we'll worth it even if it's expensive. With enough prep time you could even have boats or items to use on them built to indicate to the spirit to concentrate the Wind then suck it up and supply it to wizards on board. The enemy would be able to do the same as they wouldn't have the deal with the spirit.

Some of the non-standard options may have benefits beyond what the standard Waystones had.
 
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Just another thought I had about spirit based riverine Waystones.

The way they work is that they dump the Winds and any Dhar into the river.

Then, using the spirit's ability to teleport anything in the river to any other point in the river, the Dhar is moved to where it can be safely drained away by a leyline Waystone.

Does this mean, if you make the right deal with the spirit, that the river can serve as one enormous battery?

If you're standing in/on the river and you know how to ask the spirit in the right way, they can teleport large amounts of the desired Wind(s) of Magic into the water around directly beneath you and keep it there long enough to tap it. It also seems likely that a river spirit could churn their waters strongly enough in that location to release the saturated Winds.

It would almost certainly cost more, but if the Colleges go north to Kislev to fight the next Chaos invasion, then this option could well be be very useful to have, and we'll worth it even if it's expensive. With enough prep time you could even have boats or items to use on them built to indicate to the spirit to concentrate the Wind then suck it up and supply it to wizards on board. The enemy would be able to do the same as they wouldn't have the deal with the spirit.

Some of the non-standard options may have benefits beyond what the standard Waystones had.
"If you make the right deals with the right spirits, you can become incredibly powerful" is not exactly a new revelation. The Hag Witches of Kislev in general, and Baba Niedzwenka in particular, have definitely been making the point more salient recently, but it remains a trickier thing for some magical traditions to arrange than others.
 
"If you make the right deals with the right spirits, you can become incredibly powerful" is not exactly a new revelation. The Hag Witches of Kislev in general, and Baba Niedzwenka in particular, have definitely been making the point more salient recently, but it remains a trickier thing for some magical traditions to arrange than others.
*cough* Chaos Mathilde and the Lord of Change...

Does apparition binding not count?
 
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