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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Sinsystems said:
So fun fact, historically during the Muslim golden age apparently one of the things they did was pay their scholars for translating books the weight of the book they translated in gold.

Now obviously we aren't paying our scribes that much but it puts things into perspective.
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... Actually, aren't we? Gold is heavy, while books not too much (relative to their size, I know there are some doorstoppers out there that can be used as murder weapons).

Like, we hear "its weight is gold" and we assume that is a ginormous sum, but depending on the text per page ratio and the worth of gold, the wages of a scribe would not necessarily be less than that.

This is a genuine question, btw, I have not done the math for this.
 
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storryeater said:
... Actually, aren't we? Gold is heavy, while books not too much (relative to their size, I know there are some doorstoppers out there that can be used as murder weapons).

Like, we hear "its weight is gold" and we assume that is a ginormous sum, but depending on the text per page ratio and the worth of gold, the wages of a scribe would not necessarily be less than that.

This is a genuine question, btw, I have not done the math for this.
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Well one thing to keep in mind is what books are made of in this time period. In modern times an average book is something around 143 grams, but that is with modern printing technology and paper that likely vastly reduces the weight.
 
storryeater said:
... Actually, aren't we? Gold is heavy, while books not too much (relative to their size, I know there are some doorstoppers out there that can be used as murder weapons).

Like, we hear "its weight is gold" and we assume that is a ginormous sum, but depending on the text per page ratio and the worth of gold, the wages of a scribe would not necessarily be less than that.

This is a genuine question, btw, I have not done the math for this.
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A +1 library bonus is 50 gc. Each gc is approximately 1 ounce in the WHF RPG, so that's three pounds of gold (for the sake of argument, let's assume we're buying dwarf books with dwarf coinage, since dwarf coinage is purer than Imperial).

However, each +1 library bonus does not represent the same number of books.
Boney said:
Each +1 is at the very least one massively detailed honker of a tome and more typically somewhere between an armful and a shelf of books.
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So Esoteric's +1 might be a single book with crucial insights (like the "only Esoteric" +1 for Chaos Dwarves we have from the skaven, which comes entirely from the anatomy book), while Extensive's +1 might be literally a dozen or more books. Both cost the same under this abstracted system, and as anyone who has ever moved knows, paper is surprisingly heavy. As a result, I think we can say that most of Mathilde's books are worth significantly less than their weight in gold.
 
Boney said:
Then they go into an ossuary, where the bones of all of those that are properly resting in Morr's embrace reinforce the sanctity of the Garden. A Garden that's been a Garden for a long time has a lot of outbuildings and sublevels. Most Morrites consider cremation a blasphemy in most circumstances.
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Question: why is cremation blasphemy for Morrites? Like, what's the reasoning? Especially given how necromancy is a thing, wouldn't the notion that a desecration of a old body would in any way affect the soul of someone who has long passed on into Morr's afterlife make Morr invalid by default--since it's mortals that would be doing all the work of providing safety in death rather than Morr?

What if someone writes a will (prior to their death) that states that they want their corpse to be cremated like, a year after burial, while stating their devotion to Morr? How would the Cult of Morr handle that?

Given the Empire has long had a problem with necromancers, it seems like a reasonable thing to come up.
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
Question: why is cremation blasphemy for Morrites? Like, what's the reasoning? Especially given how necromancy is a thing, wouldn't the notion that a desecration of a old body would in any way affect the soul of someone who has long passed on into Morr's afterlife make Morr invalid by default--since it's mortals that would be doing all the work of providing safety in death rather than Morr?

What if someone writes a will (prior to their death) that states that they want their corpse to be cremated like, a year after burial, while stating their devotion to Morr? How would the Cult of Morr handle that?

Given the Empire has long had a problem with necromancers, it seems like a reasonable thing to come up.
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If I remember correctly, Morrites believe that by placing a body into a properly consecrated garden or Morr, it gives Morr a stronger ability to guide souls to the proper afterlife. However if the body is destroyed (such as through cremation), then the soul is thrown into the Aethyr at random, and it's down to chance whether it makes its way to the proper afterlife, or gets snatched up by Chaos.
 
previous WoB on the subject:
Boney said:
The position of the Cult of Morr is that for a person to have the best chance of reaching Morr's realm safely, their body should be kept inviolate and ideally within a Garden of Morr. After a certain amount of time their journey is no longer in danger, but their corpse could still be used to bother them in the afterlife or even yank them back out entirely. After a longer amount of time, this danger has passed too, and the only danger left is the body being used as raw materials by necromancers - and even then, with the soul so thoroughly absent they can only be made into basic animated skeletons. At this point if the Garden is still in active use the body is uninterred and transferred to an ossuary and the grave plot or tomb is reused, and if the person was of significance to one of the Cults part of their skeleton might be turned into relics, and if they made allowances for it some (but never all) of their bones might be used as materials for certain carefully-vetted esoteric purposes - most commonly this is those in the Cult of Morr donating their bones to the Cult of Morr, and Amethyst Wizards donating theirs to their Order.
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I suppose the taboo over cremating the body after enough time has passed for the soul to be completely safe might just be the taboo against doing it sooner leaking over.
 
Boney said:
Draconic reactions to other races using dragon bones is generally "I would simply not be killed and have my bones turned into decorations so I don't see how this is my problem".
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I just realized that the only draconic lair Mathilde has visited featured a perfectly preserved orc leader kept in a corner. Dragons give as good as they get when it comes to corpse-based decoration !
 
A few corrections from an older threadmark.

Boney said:
the Gong Farmer's factory
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I'm thinking this might work better as "Gong Farmers' factory" if it's discussing a collective of gong farmers rather than a singular individual.

Boney said:
the civil war brewing between Middenland and Norrland
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Nordland

Boney said:
Good, he replies, because you won't need it.
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Should these be left as they are because they're paraphrasing Algard, or are they his words verbatim and therefore need quotation marks?
 
StormySky said:
Should these be left as they are because they're paraphrasing Algard, or are they his words verbatim and therefore need quotation marks?
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I think perfect grammar would dictate it should use quotation marks, but that would require breaking it into a separate paragraph because it's a new speaker, which would slow down the pacing of that section. The fast pacing there is meant to convey the abrupt information dump that was inflicted on Mathilde.
 
picklepikkl said:
So Esoteric's +1 might be a single book with crucial insights (like the "only Esoteric" +1 for Chaos Dwarves we have from the skaven, which comes entirely from the anatomy book), while Extensive's +1 might be literally a dozen or more books. Both cost the same under this abstracted system, and as anyone who has ever moved knows, paper is surprisingly heavy. As a result, I think we can say that most of Mathilde's books are worth significantly less than their weight in gold.
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I think it would be closer to paying books weight in silver?
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Question: why is cremation blasphemy for Morrites? Like, what's the reasoning? Especially given how necromancy is a thing, wouldn't the notion that a desecration of a old body would in any way affect the soul of someone who has long passed on into Morr's afterlife make Morr invalid by default--since it's mortals that would be doing all the work of providing safety in death rather than Morr?

What if someone writes a will (prior to their death) that states that they want their corpse to be cremated like, a year after burial, while stating their devotion to Morr? How would the Cult of Morr handle that?

Given the Empire has long had a problem with necromancers, it seems like a reasonable thing to come up.
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The common thought is you need a body, properly buried under Morrite Rites, to ensure the safe passage of the soul to the afterlife. Destroying the body with cremation before its time risks this process. People are reasonably sure souls+afterlives exist, and definitely know nasty gribbles that like to eat souls exist. Risking someone's eternal afterlife to make temporal life easier is seen as the height of selfishness
 
A_Somebody said:
The common thought is you need a body, properly buried under Morrite Rites, to ensure the safe passage of the soul to the afterlife. Destroying the body with cremation before its time risks this process. People are reasonably sure souls+afterlives exist, and definitely know nasty gribbles that like to eat souls exist. Risking someone's eternal afterlife to make temporal life easier is seen as the height of selfishness
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Then we have Kislev where everyone is given their funeral well they are still alive. I suppose that if you then live your life dedicated to your gods that might negate the need for a long travel time after you are dead.

After all the most effective way to sacrifice your life has always been to do it one day at a time.
 
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Sounding like a sort of bird or wild animal call that causes pain and/or mental damage? I'd say Ghur.
 
Word of Pain - As the caster utters a forbidden name word, the enemy find their limbs wracked with crippling pain.

It's Dhark magic... but it's perfect.

A Druchii sorceress who goes around saying "Ni!" to people.
 
allmightytoaster said:
Mathilde Weber, lounging in her decadently polstered skull throne and reading a forbidden book on forbidden magic: "I swear I have no idea why chaos thinks I would make good everchosen."
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Mathilde Weber Everchosen Theme Song:

View: https://youtu.be/sSW-PoZ3570?si=-LTvdGwp-Sxntrjf
Weber !
She'll enchant you with her dream of power and wealth.
Beware of Weber!
Her twisted twin obsessions are her plot to rule the world
And her students' health.
She'll welcome you into her lair
Like the dame welcomes her guest
With free magical care and a stock plan that helps you invest!
But beware of her generous pensions
Plus three weeks paid vacation each year
And on Fridays, the lunchroom serves bratwurst and sauerkraut and beer!
She loves Dwarven beer!
 
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allmightytoaster said:
Mathilde Weber, lounging in her decadently polstered skull throne and reading a forbidden book on forbidden magic: "I swear I have no idea why chaos thinks I would make good everchosen."
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... I mean, reading the Liber Mortis unironically makes Mathilde a much worse Everchosen candidate for the Chaos Gods - it's a lot harder to hook someone on your supply of Show Them All Unlimited Power when they've got another dealer they can turn to if your demands get too onerous, after all.
 
Redshirt Army said:
... I mean, reading the Liber Mortis unironically makes Mathilde a much worse Everchosen candidate for the Chaos Gods - it's a lot harder to hook someone on your supply of Show Them All Unlimited Power when they've got another dealer they can turn to if your demands get too onerous, after all.
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Ah, but critically Chaos doesn't know that, and Sigmarites often wouldn't make the distinction except for combat tactics. :p
 
Godwinson said:
Ah, but critically Chaos doesn't know that, and Sigmarites often wouldn't make the distinction except for combat tactics. :p
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Tzeentch: "I've done it! The foolish Weber has become the webbed - you have no choice now! Either turn to our worship, or these amassed armies I have manipulated into place will DESTROY your precious Karak Eight Peaks, and Stirland as well!"

What Mathilde Actually Does:

View: https://youtu.be/n_qbGJuxCYY?si=utVleRXe7swsPfHd
 
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