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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Honestly, if Laurelorn undercut Marienburgs tolls and tariffs, they probably *could* a relatively significant chunk of shipping. But they'd probably need to invest heavily in infrastructure and be accepting of significant numbers of humans visiting, and both of those might be dealbreakers.
 
Tobtorp said:
Maybe just don't try to throw her at the elf's? Infiltrating middenland with the hochlander is much easier while not having a great fallout if it happens.
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This would be an EIC action with "Eike Action: EIC" accompaniment. The context of the back and forth on the elves was using the "Eike Study" slot for solo work.

My point is that given how wildly wrong I was about the difficulty of the task I'd thought of, I'm a lot less confident now about my ability to evaluate the difficulty of other solo tasks.
 
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Tobtorp said:
There is currently no blockade, there was the threat of one but nothing came of it. If there was an actual blockade war might actually have been on the table. And building up eonir trade infrastructure would be a much heavier Initial cost then just using Marienburg further...
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Okay, but the cost of building Marienburg up further is that... more trade goes through it making us more dependent on it. Which is the literal opposite reason of why we would rather have an Imperial city, or at least multiple foreign trade ports.
DragonParadox said:
Oh it is plenty xenophobic, pogroms of Imperial dwarfs are a thing, most elves in places outside the large cities would be well placed not to show their ears.
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And merchants are well known for coming from small villages rather than large towns? Or are we afraid that people will think goods transported this was have picked up some kind of contagious magic? Seems like a problem that merchants could fix by just lying and saying that it came in some other way.
Wiggy said:
Honestly, if Laurelorn undercut Marienburgs tolls and tariffs, they probably *could* a relatively significant chunk of shipping. But they'd probably need to invest heavily in infrastructure and be accepting of significant numbers of humans visiting, and both of those might be dealbreakers.
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They're already expanding the city limits, those dealbreakers are passed until the expansion is complete. this would basically just be changing where the new lines on a map go.
 
Dark as Silver said:
And merchants are well known for coming from small villages rather than large towns? Or are we afraid that people will think goods transported this was have picked up some kind of contagious magic? Seems like a problem that merchants could fix by just lying and saying that it came in some other way.
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Well for one thing, progroms arent just happening in the small villages, iirc we have heard plenty of racism against halflings in nuln, the only town widely ok with magic is altdorf and that's through extreme exposure therapy.

So yes, merchants from big cities can absolutely be racist. Hell the biggest problem I see is that merchants confuse the eonir with the asrai...
 
Tobtorp said:
So you do actually expect the very tiny population of laurelorn to take over wast swathes of empire shipping to other nations... That's certainly ambitious. Good luck with that idea.
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I mean, if it's a manpower issue, the EiC started out shipping other people's goods. I imagine they'd be thrilled with the opportunity to come transport the goods from laurelorn out to the wider empire.
 
Wiggy said:
I mean, if it's a manpower issue, the EiC started out shipping other people's goods. I imagine they'd be thrilled with the opportunity to come transport the goods from laurelorn out to the wider empire.
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Oh absolutely, but that again would involve at least basing both trade and wolfships in laurelorn with whatever manpower is needed to service both.
Not a great look.
 
Tobtorp said:
Oh absolutely, but that again would involve at least basing both trade and wolfships in laurelorn with whatever manpower is needed to service both.
Not a great look.
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Yeah, they'd need to be a *lot* more comfortable with significant numbers of humans in their forest than they currently seem to be. But hey, open up the middenland trade route and see where they are in a decade.
 
Dark as Silver said:
And merchants are well known for coming from small villages rather than large towns? Or are we afraid that people will think goods transported this was have picked up some kind of contagious magic? Seems like a problem that merchants could fix by just lying and saying that it came in some other way.
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The most extreme forms of xenophobia can be found out in the boonies where they have not seen an elf or dwarf in generations, you do not want to be a non-human in Sylvania alone for instance, but there is plenty of it to go around in more cosmopolitan parts of the empire, it is just not as bad. So whereas Jeorg the peasant thinks that elves are immortal because they drink the blood and youth of humans infants whom they steal away, his distant kinsman Karl the Aldorf merchant is convinced elves use illusion magic and trickery to be so successful because otherwise how could they be this successful and not his much more worthy self.
 
Tobtorp said:
And trade in the sea of claws without escorts is a great way of gifting norscans new shiny things!
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They can have escorts, the trade ships can be escorted to the mouth of River Schaukel, pick up or drop off cargo there, then got to some other port with their escorts. And that's assuming the trade ships aren't themselves armed heavily enough to deter pirates or the route is profitable enough to engage in despite the risk of piracy.
 
NexusEye said:
They can have escorts, the trade ships can be escorted to the mouth of River Schaukel, pick up or drop off cargo there, then got to some other port with their escorts. And that's assuming the trade ships aren't themselves armed heavily enough to deter pirates or the route is profitable enough to engage in despite the risk of piracy.
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So you want to build an imperial port at the mouth of the Schaukel? Because "dropping off" cargo is not quite as easy as just dumping charcoal. And loading is much worse...
 
Mopman43 said:
There's already a town there that could operate as a port, though that'd require Nordland being on board.
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And building up port facilities and stationing people there. And then not getting "raided" by mysteriously well equiped pirates coming from a Marienburg direction.

There is a reason why the empire hasn't switched to ostland or Nordland for trade and it's not because they don't like those provinces.
 
Tobtorp said:
So you want to build an imperial port at the mouth of the Schaukel? Because "dropping off" cargo is not quite as easy as just dumping charcoal. And loading is much worse...
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They already allow a town at the mouth of the River Demst, they could allow another at the mouth of Schaukel or set up their own and staff it with forestborn.
 
Mopman43 said:
There's already a town there that could operate as a port, though that'd require Nordland being on board.
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Got the Shaukel confused with the Demst.

Don't really see why they wouldn't use the Demst, though, it gets much closer to Laurelorn.

Then again, there's no town at the mouth of the Shaukel, so it might be easier cutting Nordland out.
 
Mopman43 said:
Got the Shaukel confused with the Demst.

Don't really see why they wouldn't use the Demst, though, it gets much closer to Laurelorn.

Then again, there's no town at the mouth of the Shaukel, so it might be easier cutting Nordland out.
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What do you mean by "closer to Laurelorn"? Both rivers are in Laurelorn. Did you mean closer to Tor Lithanel? Because the Schaukel goes directly to Tor Lithanel, while the Demst only passes by a road ~20 miles east of Tor Lithanel. As Eike found out when doing the charcoal action human traffic on the Schaukel isn't currently a possibility, because the Eonir don't want foreigners in their city:
Boney said:
A route up the Schaukel from the Sea of Claws would also be possible - I understand that is the planned route for imports of stone - but the Eonir vessels that will be making those trips aren't built yet, and they're still leery about foreign visitors to their city.
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mathymancer said:
What do you mean by "closer to Laurelorn"? Both rivers are in Laurelorn. Did you mean closer to Tor Lithanel? Because the Schaukel goes directly to Tor Lithanel, while the Demst only passes by a road ~20 miles east of Tor Lithanel. As Eike found out when doing the charcoal action human traffic on the Schaukel isn't currently a possibility, because the Eonir don't want foreigners in their city:
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You know, it didn't click with me until now that the blue line on Boney's Laurelorn map is the Schaukel being expanded to go all the way to Tor Lithanel.

I was going by the non-edited Winds of Chaos map where it's much shorter.
 
This whole discussion really needs to be had starting from "what can we offer the elves?" And not "what can the elves offer the empire?"

I mean, unless we want to take Nordland's runefang and give it to the queen, get them Nordland's seat at the electoral council.
 
Glau said:
This whole discussion really needs to be had starting from "what can we offer the elves?" And not "what can the elves offer the empire?"

I mean, unless we want to take Nordland's runefang and give it to the queen, get them Nordland's seat at the electoral council.
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If we wait for the trade deficit to become big enough they'll be forced to start considering what they can offer the Empire so they still have money to buy stuff with.
Boney said:
Trying to convince the Eonir to part ways with their luxury goods for non-ruinous prices would be much harder than letting the growing trade deficit bring them to the bargaining table on their own initiative, after they burn through centuries of accumulated precious metals.
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Glau said:
This whole discussion really needs to be had starting from "what can we offer the elves?" And not "what can the elves offer the empire?"

I mean, unless we want to take Nordland's runefang and give it to the queen, get them Nordland's seat at the electoral council.
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I mean, they're already buying stone and charcoal and spices and we have an ore optionas well. Eventually their stocked up silver will run out and they'll need to do *something* to pay for more.
 
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