We don't know nearly enough about ulrican faith, the schism or the current politics of the conclave to do anything like that I feel...
Last edited:
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
What makes Mathilde the person who can make this happen?
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Access to the Conclave (if that's possible) and being 'technically' a dwarf giving pull with Sigmarites (something we'd definitely reveal if we are going to come out as a Ranaldian) and the knowledge this is needed. Oh, and our positive relationship with the Emperor because of Heidi also giving some pull.
Last edited:
We knew about it because they literally sent us a letter with the proclamation. And given that Roswita knew about it when we talked to her after the fact, it's at least publicly available, if possibly not exactly widespread.
We still actively don't like the sigmarites... Which is a tad of a problem there...
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
That is expressed as us doing bad when we are in charge of an organization. We put in some work there, IIRC. We can work with Sigmarites (Roswita being a big example of this, but also we respect the hell outta Kasmir), just not in our institution.
The pomp and ceremony of the Conclave is invite only, but the actual business gets done behind closed doors and just about anyone can and often does get involved in some way or another. The 'technically a Dwarf' thing would be trivial to dispute or dismiss if Mathilde tried to get any mileage out of it. And the knowledge that the schism 'needs' to be papered over is open to debate, considering that at its core it's a movement to make the Cult of Ulric less racist, less sexist, and less prone to meddling in politics, coming on the tail of the Ar-Ulric ordering the execution of thousands of citizens of the Empire for political gain.
The problem is that that would involve not picking any of the other shiny new traits laying around and that's a hard ask for a quest...
Last edited:
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'd only really choose it if there's something that makes it make sense narratively.
Namely, working closely alongside Sigmarites/a Sigmarite institution for a bit to positive end.
Outside of Kasmir and Roswita and maybe Starke, I think that the only Sigmarite that Mathilde has interacted with in well over a decade is that Witch Hunter she had a heated conversation with about Alberic.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
My own position on that for a while has been wanting to actually have it come into play as a focus for a little bit: It's come up here and there, but I want to see Mathilde forced to confront her disdain after interacting with Sigmarites, or Sigmar, before it changes.
That or having someone (demon, cultist, etc.) learn of Mathilde's disdain and try to take advantage of it.
Just... something to force her out of her current comfort zone.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
I really like the Sigmar trait characterwise. Its a clear flaw that makes Mathilde more interesting. I'd have to see in character reasoning for the change, not just get it as a shiny.
- Location
- Washington
The disdain for sigmar trait Owns, Actually.
- Location
- Australia
It's a character flaw but it's no longer one that makes her more interesting. Now it's just a relic.
The idea that Mathilde should have some positive interaction with Sigmarites first is one I supported in the past, but it's honestly not really a good argument. Mathilde's entire disdain for the god came because a divine caster failed to save a life once. There was no ramping disdain building up to it, the Roswita incident has long been resolved, and there's been no other negative Sigmar-related things that have impacted Mathilde on a personal level. All that there's been in terms of Sigmar-related personal stuff is a continuing positive relationship with Roswita and Kasmir.
There is no reason for the trait to continue to exist.
EDIT: And yes I do want to make it very clear, character flaws are not inherently interesting just because they're flaws.
Last edited:
In the Stacks
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
In the Stacks
Panoramia was vexxed. Yes, vexxed was the proper word- less aggressive than irritated, more shades of puzzled than annoyed, and altogether softer and more refined than the brutish pissed.
She had gotten up early, feeling the last hug of ulgu as the mists burned off and she wove gyrhan into the crops, talking... lecturing? No... Declaiming. Declaiming to Sophie about urea and how you wouldn't think it'd be that hard to source a bunch of urine with nine whole cities ringing the fields but no! Gunpowder had first claim! As if food mattered less and ok yes this was only really important as bed preparation for the beans and alfalfa that were the next step in a long chain towards healthy soil but still!
And thus passed her day. She waved Sophie around noon and told her to go work on her own garden (it had been a thought sparked from a conversation with Max of all people- he'd said the phrase 'artistic control' about one of his own projects, and that germinated, so she decided to try to give her 'apprentice' another area of life to control) but it was only mid-afternoon when she wandered off to get cleaned up.
The thing that actually vexxed her was that it was now well after sunset and she had just gone and climbed the entire mountain of Karag Nar only to be told that Mathilde was *here*, halfway up a different mountain. Her formerly well-groomed appearance was a fond memory, and as thus she stalked into the eerily silent halls of Kron-Azrul-Ungol. (Normal librarians just shushed people. The We also shushed people, but filled much of the ceiling with webs to proactively cut down on noise.)
Of course, that made the sound of her... Mathilde used paramour, but Panoramia was a bit too self-conscious of the similarity to use the wordplay in her own head... partner was too generic, lover too transient, wife a bowlful of snakes she had no desire to poke, and mate was too primal... beloved. That she liked, at least for herself. Although that made the sound of her beloved's voice stand out even more, for the head librarian was not shushed, she did the shushing.
"...have to take into account the fact that the collection is growing by leaps and bounds, so we need a plan that'll take us through the growth in the physical sciences we're still dealing with, accept the next load of elf books, and then be able to immediately pivot to the new selfmade stuff we'll have coming in from Nuln. We don't even know what we are going to have to fit in from them- BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE USES A RATIONAL SYSTEM- and cats cross my path but we'll have exactly the most awkward shipments to accommodate..."
If she didn't know better, she'd think that her beloved didn't notice her approaching. If she didn't know better, she might have read the shift in tone on the last word to be worry about the books and the shelves and the rest.
So she came to a stop, silently, staying well back from both where Mathilde was looking and her shadow.
And began tapping her toe, as if impatient, without ever making contact with the floor.
It was fun to watch the tiny, guilty flinches in Mathilde's shoulders at the bottom of every stroke.
Finally the We and the two dwarves that Mathilde had been speaking to took pity. It was actually the spider who broke first.
"Well, this-We must be going; oh it is a pleasure to see you magister Panoramia, let me just..." And the spider was gone, straight up to the ceiling. The dwarves looked jealous. Mathilde tried to put a good face on it.
"Pan? Oh I'm sorry, time must have gotten away from me, I hope I didn't keep... you... waiting..." The genuine-ish grin she led with when she turned around began to flake like cheap paint at the corners. The awkward fact that they were here, in Kvinn-Wyr, and not where they'd agreed to meet, in Karag Nar, sat there. Between them. Unspoken.
The dwarves looked at eachother. One coughed. They began striding for the door.
"Best we not keep you then, Head Librarian."
And then there were two. (The few scribes working late and the audience of curious spiders in the ceiling didn't count.)
Panoramia managed to hold her stern face for another ten seconds while Mathilde gave her a desperate smile.
Then they both collapsed into gales of laughter.
"Oh cats they are TERRIFIED of you-"
"-looked like someone had died- did you hear the We? 'Must be going'; going where, the same room? And-"
"-but I am very sorry I lost track of time. It's just that it's such an interesting problem! But I shouldn't have made you climb to the penthouse-"
"-and I'll make sure that you feel as much pain as I do, later. I can't hold it too much against you though, I'm trying to get a similar thing going for Sophie."
"You are making her arrange books?"
"Well, no, a garden actually, but I just gave her one of the small valleys I had been using to keep the test cattle in and told her to make something that made her happy. Trying to give her a space that is her's and she can control, you know?"
"Ah, my clever and beautiful paramour, are you saying you worry about me having an addiction to books?"
Panoramia opened her mouth, and then closed it. And lifted an eyebrow at the space around them.
Panoramia was vexxed. Yes, vexxed was the proper word- less aggressive than irritated, more shades of puzzled than annoyed, and altogether softer and more refined than the brutish pissed.
She had gotten up early, feeling the last hug of ulgu as the mists burned off and she wove gyrhan into the crops, talking... lecturing? No... Declaiming. Declaiming to Sophie about urea and how you wouldn't think it'd be that hard to source a bunch of urine with nine whole cities ringing the fields but no! Gunpowder had first claim! As if food mattered less and ok yes this was only really important as bed preparation for the beans and alfalfa that were the next step in a long chain towards healthy soil but still!
And thus passed her day. She waved Sophie around noon and told her to go work on her own garden (it had been a thought sparked from a conversation with Max of all people- he'd said the phrase 'artistic control' about one of his own projects, and that germinated, so she decided to try to give her 'apprentice' another area of life to control) but it was only mid-afternoon when she wandered off to get cleaned up.
The thing that actually vexxed her was that it was now well after sunset and she had just gone and climbed the entire mountain of Karag Nar only to be told that Mathilde was *here*, halfway up a different mountain. Her formerly well-groomed appearance was a fond memory, and as thus she stalked into the eerily silent halls of Kron-Azrul-Ungol. (Normal librarians just shushed people. The We also shushed people, but filled much of the ceiling with webs to proactively cut down on noise.)
Of course, that made the sound of her... Mathilde used paramour, but Panoramia was a bit too self-conscious of the similarity to use the wordplay in her own head... partner was too generic, lover too transient, wife a bowlful of snakes she had no desire to poke, and mate was too primal... beloved. That she liked, at least for herself. Although that made the sound of her beloved's voice stand out even more, for the head librarian was not shushed, she did the shushing.
"...have to take into account the fact that the collection is growing by leaps and bounds, so we need a plan that'll take us through the growth in the physical sciences we're still dealing with, accept the next load of elf books, and then be able to immediately pivot to the new selfmade stuff we'll have coming in from Nuln. We don't even know what we are going to have to fit in from them- BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE USES A RATIONAL SYSTEM- and cats cross my path but we'll have exactly the most awkward shipments to accommodate..."
If she didn't know better, she'd think that her beloved didn't notice her approaching. If she didn't know better, she might have read the shift in tone on the last word to be worry about the books and the shelves and the rest.
So she came to a stop, silently, staying well back from both where Mathilde was looking and her shadow.
And began tapping her toe, as if impatient, without ever making contact with the floor.
It was fun to watch the tiny, guilty flinches in Mathilde's shoulders at the bottom of every stroke.
Finally the We and the two dwarves that Mathilde had been speaking to took pity. It was actually the spider who broke first.
"Well, this-We must be going; oh it is a pleasure to see you magister Panoramia, let me just..." And the spider was gone, straight up to the ceiling. The dwarves looked jealous. Mathilde tried to put a good face on it.
"Pan? Oh I'm sorry, time must have gotten away from me, I hope I didn't keep... you... waiting..." The genuine-ish grin she led with when she turned around began to flake like cheap paint at the corners. The awkward fact that they were here, in Kvinn-Wyr, and not where they'd agreed to meet, in Karag Nar, sat there. Between them. Unspoken.
The dwarves looked at eachother. One coughed. They began striding for the door.
"Best we not keep you then, Head Librarian."
And then there were two. (The few scribes working late and the audience of curious spiders in the ceiling didn't count.)
Panoramia managed to hold her stern face for another ten seconds while Mathilde gave her a desperate smile.
Then they both collapsed into gales of laughter.
"Oh cats they are TERRIFIED of you-"
"-looked like someone had died- did you hear the We? 'Must be going'; going where, the same room? And-"
"-but I am very sorry I lost track of time. It's just that it's such an interesting problem! But I shouldn't have made you climb to the penthouse-"
"-and I'll make sure that you feel as much pain as I do, later. I can't hold it too much against you though, I'm trying to get a similar thing going for Sophie."
"You are making her arrange books?"
"Well, no, a garden actually, but I just gave her one of the small valleys I had been using to keep the test cattle in and told her to make something that made her happy. Trying to give her a space that is her's and she can control, you know?"
"Ah, my clever and beautiful paramour, are you saying you worry about me having an addiction to books?"
Panoramia opened her mouth, and then closed it. And lifted an eyebrow at the space around them.
Last edited:
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
There was a bit-namely, Abelhelm's flagging faith in Sigmar and the Cult of Sigmar as an institution (Kasmir initially being there just to play politics, meddling, not sending any support for the Sylvanian purge, etc)
- Location
- Washington
If we get rid of the disdain for sigmar trait without ever having the "Reinar Starke probably wants to turn the grey college into a sigmarite institution" matter come to a head first I will start a fucking riot. THERE'S a reason for the trait to continue to exist, it'll make the matter of the next grey college patriarch WAY more narratively engaging whereas the reason you've got for it to go away is basically "eh I feel like it's been enough time."
Humans don't necessarily just revert to a neutral state on a position simply because time has passed. So personally I don't really agree with your position that it's time for it to go away just because some years have passed, one could equally say the passing of years has actually embedded the belief more deeply into her as a core worldview.
Last edited:
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I can't explain why but I find this incredibly cute. We have two systems of information keeping: Books, and spiders. ❤️
Mathilde has, intentionally or not, dedicated her life to becoming Sigmar 2.0. Her grudge (secretly) defines her and has motivated many of her major life decisions after leaving Stirland. The trait doesn't get the spotlight because Mathilde avoids Sigmar organizations and institutions like the plague. (Including kinda-sorta-accidentally helping to make a Ranaldian the heir to the Emperor.) The trait doesn't go away until Mathilde meets Moor.
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
Isn't Reiner Starke a Sigmarite? Er, wait, somehow I missed that name in the quote box...
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Yeah, at this point the trait is fairly calcified in her mind.
I think it would take something to push her out if that mindset at this point.
I really enjoyed the amount of care and concern Panoramia has for selecting the precisely right words for things. It felt similar to Mathilde's own tendency, but not quite, as Mathilde tends to be more playful and exploratory when doing so, while Panoramia is more careful precision and satisfaction.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It is not our job to solve everything that catches Mathilde's perceptive sight. Our job is the Waystone project, and in itself it helps out relations between the Eonir and the Empire. I'm sure there's lots of people in Laurelorn and Middenland which have their finger more on the pulse of the Ulric thing. For starters, we don't even have our Ulric skill up to Basic! Speaking of which...
I don't think Mathilde would blame Sigmar the human. Her beef is how in the one moment that he was needed most as a god, he was unable to heal someone who really needed it.
It represents a very dark moment of her life, it's not something that can just be abandoned because it's inconvenient. It will represent actual effort.
I think I'd be up for this, but I will second Mopman - it'd make more sense if we worked alongside Sigmarites for some common purpose. But maybe we could go find Kasmir and confide in him in this regard, help us try to find some peace with it, maybe learn more of him as a man than as a god. Maybe raise that Sigmar skill up to Basic, though I don't think she'd gain Piety from it so much as understanding for now.
I don't think Mathilde would blame Sigmar the human. Her beef is how in the one moment that he was needed most as a god, he was unable to heal someone who really needed it.
This, I heavily disagree with. The Drakenhof campaign was a traumatic incident for Mathilde, and lashing out against Sigmar is how she dealt with it. She had the options to think of it as a senseless and pointless tragedy, blaming the Colleges, blaming the Empire, blaming Morrites, blaming the Sylvanian populace, thinking that she personally failed Abelhelm, disdaining infantry in general, thinking of magic as a curse, thinking that the gods can't help us period, turning her back on how there's always mysteries and that they shouldn't be opened, thinking you can't trust anyone to have your back, thinking she'll never meet anyone as worthy as Abelhelm, or taking up drinking.
It represents a very dark moment of her life, it's not something that can just be abandoned because it's inconvenient. It will represent actual effort.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
There is no such matter. Everything we know about grey wizards in Divided Loyalties tells us that they're too sensible to ever get up to those kinds of games common in other factions. Starke will only ever be a grey wizard who worships Sigmar, not some supremacist reformer.