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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Fouredged Sword said:
It's the boarder princes. You can conquer them with a sternly worded letter.
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Exactly my point. It is a matter of holding it being the problem and Boney once commented that you need to have understanding with Empire, Barak Varr, Brettonia and Tilea before beating the exiting princes to a line and purge the gribblies in order to take over the Borderlands and keep it.

We got a Great Deed from the Empire and Barak Varr has offered fall back points in the Verenka hills. We have ourselves and we can probably whistle up an army to both intimidate the princes and purge the gribblies. All that is left is some favors from Brettonia and Tilea to make sure they don't interfere and we become the next Elector Count of the Empire.

We can cribb from the Fedsuns of Battletech and name ourselves the First Prince even. Imagine how fun it would be. We could be the ones that kick the door to music of "X gonna give it to you" in the Elector Meet.
 
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Boney said:
"No, use the rivers themselves. The..." He frowns, and says a few words in Was Jutonian. "World habit? These are old rivers, there's been constant movement of water along those paths for thousands of years. You sort of," he makes an indecipherable motion with his hands, "tie it onto that."

"Oh, yngra elthrai," Sarvoi says.

"Induced correspondence," you translate.

"Quite literally 'as above, so below'," Elrisse says with a little smile.
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I like the little translation chain going on here. It's yet another way you're making this multicultural research megaprojects feel like one every time it's on screen. :)
 
Boney said:
Correct. The major limitation with it is that it needs rivers to function, so while it'd work fine for Sylvania it wouldn't be much help to the Drakwald.
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What about Kislev? I was looking at the maps in Collection of Important Information, and it seems like large stretches of the northwest and the east are nowhere near major rivers. Is that accurate (implying a different solution needed for Kislev) or is the map scale just not showing the smaller rivers that run there?

(Obviously the river solution wouldn't work for erecting new Waystones in the Badlands, but "erecting new Waystones in a land populated primarily by goblins and orcs" seems like a difficult proposition anyway and not worth prioritizing compared to parts of the Old World inhabited by people we like.)
 
K von Carstein said:
No shit. But if we flood Marienbourg with Shar and they're not lying, there's a new Mordheim st the mouth of the Reik. And it still doesn't explain how that would convince them to give us the codes.
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Presumably they do not want a new mordheim at the location of the Exarchate of Sith Rionnasc, so if giving us the codes is the only way to convince us they aren't lying, I think they will weigh up things rather differently vis a vis passcodes.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
You do realise the Duke was lying out his rear end when he said "we don't need assistance", right.
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Yes I realize he wants assistance, but he was not begging for it on his knees or offering half his realm in recompense as is traditional :V

Seriously if he were desperate he would have asked his liege, that is what the king is there for. That he thinks he can endure on his own is a pretty good sign that this is not a problem than endangers the whole of the kingdom. Monfort is not the most powerful duchy by far.
 
picklepikkl said:
What about Kislev? I was looking at the maps in Collection of Important Information, and it seems like large stretches of the northwest and the east are nowhere near major rivers. Is that accurate (implying a different solution needed for Kislev) or is the map scale just not showing the smaller rivers that run there?
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Update did say Kislev could use it for 2-3 places but I have not looked to the maps myself. SO it probably is not total covarage but still useful I gather.

Edit: There are alot of rivers in the Troll country. If Kislev wants to take that over it would be great asset to them.
 
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Some scattered comments on contributions of our project members while I catch up with the thread:
  • Practically zero friction so far. Hatalath and Thorek are civil to one another, Elrisse didn't bat an eye at Aksel, I think basically everyone is getting along (at least so long as Mathilde is in the room)
  • Some of the Grey Lords seem not to care much about concepts such as "scalabitily", "feasibility", and "basic common sense". If we ever need an impractical and over-enginnered solution to something, Lords Mal and Turuquar are our go-to.
  • Were Hatalath and Johann talking about magnetic susceptibility here?
    Boney said:
    Cloudier?"

    "What do you mean, cloudier?"

    "Like... less lodestone-y?"
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  • Good showing by Johann, though it sadly seems like it'll go to waste because getting Titan-metal is impractical.
  • Fantastic showing by my boy Aksel, replicating the work of Eonir archmages with some rocks and a dead trout. Eat shit, elder races!
  • Also by Tochter. The Jade Order's solution seems better, but it might be harder to make/require more expensive materials. I guess we'll see when we get around to building Waystone prototypes.
  • Absolutely disgraceful showing by the Light Order. Neither Egrimm nor Elrise manage to contribute diddly-squat to the study of the capstone or the river leylines - and those are both things that we know the Nehekharan network uses! For shame.
    • We might want to look into Nehekhara's network sooner rather than later, if only to see what it is the Light Order actually knows.
    • This:
      Boney said:
      "Induced correspondence," you translate.

      "Quite literally 'as above, so below'," Elrisse says with a little smile.
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      Is a reference to a basic concept in Hermeticism - 'as above, so below'. Hermeticism is (one of?) the tradition(s) Boney drew inspiration from for the founders of the Light Order, which we know because Tahoth Trisheros is very clearly a Hermes Trismegistus expy.
  • Cadaeth didn't help any either, but seemingly only because a superior spirit wrangler already solved the problem, so I'll let it slide.
  • Sarvoi reached out to House Nienna for advice on the induced correspondence thing. Nienna are Cothiquan Morai-Heg worshippers, so I wonder why they have any insight into this matter. Maybe this is an underworldy thing because we're literally inducing some sort of symbolic resonance with stuff underground, and so the underworld Goddess has some insights? Or is it because water is involved, and Cothique is Ulthuan's water level?
 
"Mathilde, you can't just 'solve the waystones'! It's a magical conundrum built during the golden ages of the most powerful nations in history, and has puzzled the greatest geniuses for thousands of—wait, what's that you've got there?"

"Three types of tributary, three capstone replacements, three leyline alternatives, a nexus, and an identification of the runes and materials used to make waystones."

"..."

"I'm worried I'm working too slowly, I might have to sacrifice some of my personal research projects to complete this in a timely manner."
 
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I think the idea of being better prepared for the Elfcation is both a brainworm and a legitimate concern. I have written an omake on this exact topic. The Elfvacation in general has a good number of reasons why we can continue to put it off without concern.
  1. It's not pressing at all. We were literally told the invitation was "between now and when the world ends". And there will always be Naggarothi raiders dumped into Nagarythe by Malekith periodically.
  2. Nagarythe is the most cursed land in all of Ulthuan. Both sides of this war are extremely bitter and angry and have honed their killing skills against each other for literal millennia.
  3. There's still a few things in the backburner - AV, Apparitions, a few of the artefacts we can still study.
  4. We as a thread generally try to calculate our risks vs our rewards quite a bit, and while the risk can be mitigated more as we get more experiences or firepower, due to the Protector face of the Coin, the rewards can also get better the more we impress people.
Finally, as picklepikkl says, we likely want to do it on a turn with Overwork. Turn 44 is definitely the earliest I can see people going for it, but personally I'd assume it'll be closer to Turn 47 or so.

NavySeel said:
Belegar is at 20 and Kazador at 15

Mathilde is kind of crazy.
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Their traits do the heavy lifting for them. We know Belegar has a Duelist trait, and he smacked the hell out of a Black Orc Warboss in a 1v1 when we first arrived at Eight Peaks. Kazador, meanwhile, reached Martial +45 during the Battle of the Caldera while leading his own Throng and using the Master Rune of Dismay. Boney also said that if he'd been fighting Greenskins it'd have been even higher.
 
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Romv said:
It's not a magical soul-destroying daemon ritual; his sanity survived being a tree for a century or whatever.
As for understanding it, he (or another Gold) could at least try?
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The spell shows forging and creation. It doesn't go all the way back to ore. And Golds are taught to be leery about being the first recorded Gold Wizard to ever expose their brain to an entirely new kind of artefact.

picklepikkl said:
What about Kislev? I was looking at the maps in Collection of Important Information, and it seems like large stretches of the northwest and the east are nowhere near major rivers. Is that accurate (implying a different solution needed for Kislev) or is the map scale just not showing the smaller rivers that run there?

(Obviously the river solution wouldn't work for erecting new Waystones in the Badlands, but "erecting new Waystones in a land populated primarily by goblins and orcs" seems like a difficult proposition anyway and not worth prioritizing compared to parts of the Old World inhabited by people we like.)
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You wouldn't be able to achieve anywhere near full coverage in Kislev using river leylines alone, but Kislev doesn't need full coverage, just better coverage than they have now.

mathymancer said:
  • Sarvoi reached out to House Nienna for advice on the induced correspondence thing. Nienna are Cothiquan Morai-Heg worshippers, so I wonder why they have any insight into this matter. Maybe this is an underworldy thing because we're literally inducing some sort of symbolic resonance with stuff underground, and so the underworld Goddess has some insights? Or is it because water is involved, and Cothique is Ulthuan's water level?
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The Eltharin words for induced correspondence mean something like 'to imprison within fate', which is Morai-Heg's bailiwick.
 
mathymancer said:
  • Fantastic showing by my boy Aksel, replicating the work of Eonir archmages with some rocks and a dead trout. Eat shit, elder races!
  • Also by Tochter. The Jade Order's solution seems better, but it might be harder to make/require more expensive materials. I guess we'll see when we get around to building Waystone prototypes.
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There is one important difference in my view- Aksel's requires upkeep (a trout or salmon killed on top of the stones every week) where Tochter's doesn't, as far as presented.
 
I honestly just want to get to brasstacks and just bulldoze our way through the waystones, so i am definitely for putting off the adventure for some time. Turn 44 sounds lovely, and is not very far away.
 
mathymancer said:
Absolutely disgraceful showing by the Light Order. Neither Egrimm nor Elrise manage to contribute diddly-squat to the study of the capstone or the river leylines - and those are both things that we know the Nehekharan network uses! For shame.
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Elrise at least made that canal comment. My impression based on this and vague past memories is that she is a valuable voice to have even in her Order is bullshitting just because she has a useful practical perspective on stuff.
 
picklepikkl said:
That's actually a Skill and not a Trait.

Here are Mathilde's Traits, for reference:

(Plus Branarhune, which the Character Sheet does not yet possess.)

I don't think any of the last block, which are titles, would be eligible options. The second block is Familiar stuff, and while obviously she can't copy the specific things we get from Wolf, she might easily get a Familiar herself in imitation of us.

Windsage (or its earlier version, Windreader) would be obviously amazing. Warrior of Fog or Avatar would also be very cool possibilities. Less "holy shit" but still strong options include Laconic, Polyglot, and Unseen. Let's hope she doesn't get Disdain for Sigmar, though!
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If nothing else I very much hope she'll eventually get Grey Wizard. :p

DragonParadox said:
Yes I realize he wants assistance, but he was not begging for it on his knees or offering half his realm in recompense as is traditional :V

Seriously if he were desperate he would have asked his liege, that is what the king is there for. That he thinks he can endure on his own is a pretty good sign that this is not a problem than endangers the whole of the kingdom. Monfort is not the most powerful duchy by far.
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I'm not aware of any particular reason to think he didn't ask the king and get told "You're not actively being overrun. I have more important shit on my plate to assign a Damsel to.", assuming that the king can in fact order Damsels around relatively casually when their role as something closely equivalent to priests makes that a somewhat dubious prospect.


Parabola said:
Nagarythe is the most cursed land in all of Ulthuan. Both sides of this war are extremely bitter and angry and have honed their killing skills against each other for literal millennia. Can you really
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I think you missed something here?
 
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LadySerpentine said:
I'm not aware of any particular reason to think he didn't ask the king and get told "You're not actively being overrun. I have more important shit on my plate to assign a Damsel to.", assuming that the king can in fact order Damesels around relatively casually when their role as something closely equivalent to priests makes that a somewhat dubious prospect.
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I'm pretty sure the King absolutely cannot.

Him getting Damsels assigned would be him asking the Fey Enchantress, and as far as that goes, it's a very short walk for the Duke from Carcassonne Castle to Morgiana's tower.

I mean, we've talked to a Damsel about this and they didn't seem to think they could solve the issue.
 
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LadySerpentine said:
I'm not aware of any particular reason to think he didn't ask the king and get told "You're not actively being overrun. I have more important shit on my plate to assign a Damsel to.", assuming that the king can in fact order Damsels around relatively casually when their role as something closely equivalent to priests makes that a somewhat dubious prospect.
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I mean OK... that means he is not actively being overrun. We have no indication that Bretonia as a whole is distressed, we have one duke who was willing to trade some favors for some help. To me that says 'local problem, not something for people who live halfway across the continent to worry about for its own sake'.
 
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Personally, I want to get to the point where the Bretonnians have to make concessions to get onto the Waystone Project, rather than the reverse. And then after that we go and find the Iron Orcs, to extract more concessions, either for the Waystone Project or something else. I'm sure Bretonnia has lots of very impressive libraries.
 
Boney said:
"It's Titan-metal," Johann reports to a reconvened table. "It shows up in Ogre weapons from time to time."

"Samples recovered by Karak Azorn Rangers two thousand years ago confirmed the Titan Holds as the source of the metals, hence the name," Thorek says.

"Lord Turuquar will be pleased to hear that," Hatalath says. "All he knew of it is that it came via the Gates of Calith, and his inability to give a better answer clearly vexed him."
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A quick note but you know who would probably be a good person to ask about Titan Metal if we do pursue that route? The man who traveled to Cathay and would have gone through the Mountains of Mourne along the way. Dragomas would probably be our best source for any information on if we can get Titan Metal even if it is only 'Yeah Cathay can make that but don't sell it to outsiders'. Probably not reason enough to see him alone but we will probably speak to him another time regardless given all our current projects.
 
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One thing to consider is that in canon, Carcassone can't find the Iron Orcs, which means that they can't bring evidence of them existing to the King and the other duchies, and the opinion of the other duchies is that Carcassone has invented the threat in order to justify paying fewer taxes. The King can't move to aid Carcassone without upsetting his other vassals, who think that Carcassone doesn't deserve the special treatment.

Now yes, the Damsels seem to know of the threat too (or at least the one we spoke to at the wedding did), but that still suggests that the other dukes are reluctant to lend Carcassone any assistance at all regarding a threat that they can not prove exists.
 
mathymancer said:
Any guesses as to who's the social interaction initiated by others? I would say it's probably one of:

-Cadaeth, to tell us that our Wayshard is ready
-Francesco, to tell us that spider silk is finally happening
-Wilhelmina, to tell us that the canals are completed
-Marienburg, to say that they're sorry about the Skull River thing and here's their library by way of apology
-Belegar and Roswita, to tell us of their engagement
-Teclis, who is back from buying milk and very proud of us

Any other plausible ideas?
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So uh apropos of nothing, surprisingly prescient here!
 
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