- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
...this is a really good idea, actually, and I think I support it above establishing the charcoal trade. That's not particularly time sensitive, whereas intel might be.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
In canon, high elf nobles do assassinate each other sometimes. Concerning the Nagarythians, those guys have in quest canon an entire Ulgu tradition. That they don't train at least some as assassins makes no sense, given the lack of care for honor they have. And Druchii armies not falling apart when their leader is killed hardly mean infiltration and assassination are useless. Loosing an experienced and politically powerful general that can herd his cats is still a hard blow, just like killing a powerful sorceress.
Ulric's Cult has very little presence in the southern provinces - the north and south Pantheons are called that for a reason.
The EIC has minor presence in Middenheim, and moderate presence in Talabecland which does have some Ulric worship, but are we seriously going to try and spy on one of the biggest Cults in the Empire and risk pissing off our largest political ally and one of the two biggest players in this whole mess?
Establishing presence in Middenheim to get a general idea of where the wind is blowing, that I can see making some sense, but again the EIC presence there is minor. Of course, we can increase it through trade. The charcoal trade won't do it right away, but once there's a road between Middenheim and Tor Lithanel I think it's very likely that at least part of the charcoal trade will move there.
I get that Nordland did a thing and now everyone's worried, but not every single problem can be solved by us. The EIC has other good and useful and sensible things it can do for the current situation, let's focus on that.
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I think it's safe to assume that there are some people trained assassins across the Ten Kingdoms, however their use and deployment is not a traditional aspect of Asur military or political doctrine.
They are very much a "speak softly, but carry a big stick" culture (except that they don't really have a stick big enough to wack the Empire with, which forces them to resort to carrots and arrogance as their main weapons).
They are very much a "speak softly, but carry a big stick" culture (except that they don't really have a stick big enough to wack the Empire with, which forces them to resort to carrots and arrogance as their main weapons).
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Choarcal trade might be solidfy Middneland support for the Eonir alliance especially if we couple that with RoW bridge as nobles and traders alike sees more gold and benefits which can translate to groundswell support.
But I do agree that getting somebody in on the Cult of Ulric might be usefull. If nothing else knowing how Ar-Ulric is going to react might give us time to act. So I am ambvient which one we do first.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
That'd require said Charcoal trade to go through Middenland though, which probably isn't possible until the Fog Road is built.
So I don't think it hurts too much to wait.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I wonder if we could do something similar with Marienburg's libraries as we are with Nuln?
Right now they're apparently very worried about their relations with the dwarves, on account of how they might be responsible for murdering hundreds of dwarves by way of a Chaos cult. And along comes Mathilde, representing the library of a dwarven king, looking to enter an agreement with the Great Library of Verena, who have for decades been snubbing anyone from the Empire who'd like to take a look at their books.
We might not even have to use any kind of boon - entering into such an agreement with Karak Eight Peaks might be enticing enough for Marienburg as-is.
Right now they're apparently very worried about their relations with the dwarves, on account of how they might be responsible for murdering hundreds of dwarves by way of a Chaos cult. And along comes Mathilde, representing the library of a dwarven king, looking to enter an agreement with the Great Library of Verena, who have for decades been snubbing anyone from the Empire who'd like to take a look at their books.
We might not even have to use any kind of boon - entering into such an agreement with Karak Eight Peaks might be enticing enough for Marienburg as-is.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Counterpoint - and I make this not because I'm hugely invested either way - indeed I find EIC info stuff much much more interesting than EIC monies stuff - but as an openly Socratic-style attempt to help us decide on the 'best' course of action/vote option;
1. Would visibly (to the Enoir) creating a charcoal trade link sooner not help shore up the 'pro-interaction' position more quickly?
-1. a. Do/will Thorek's efforts already provide (most of) this benefit?
2. Intel is good. More for me; intel is tasty and I liek it. But do we think that there is high likelihood of us attaining intel from this expansion of the network that Mathilde could act on?
-2.b. note, 'act on' does not nesicarrly mean 'spend AP', it could just be a background conversation she would have with relevant parties she has access to.
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[to me, it's not a question of 'what do we do' as much as 'in what turn sequence do we do these?'... and on that note, as one beautiful* poster pointed out above, building trade links in a given region is how we set up an information network via the EIC, otherwise we just send the Hochlander to go out to do his 'sexily skilled spyccrafting' through forests, probably with a bit of mud in appealing patterns over exposed skin..... ahem. anyway.
Cult interaction/spying probably won't be much aided by setting up a charcoal trade network but, any broader/long term 'what's the general vibe? what are rick folk saying?' action would be.]
*Yes. They are beautful, whoever they are. And so are you dear reader. And so is this wine.
Edit:
Also this!
I was assuming it meant a general and mostly unobjectionable 'just try to get a general vibe of the cult of Ulric situation and keep an eye on things', but:
1. That limit on the scale of what is to be attempted is not conveyed in the suggestion as written, and I have a problem with that I'd rather risk ignorance than risk causing offence/being caught.
2. How would the Hochlander even set up for long term observation as opposed to a once-and-done investigation?
3. Would we be able to learn useful things that would not be quickly learned by other grey-college-aligned parties?
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Unless there some sort of positve long term relationship that the Hochlander/EIC can set up with the cult of Ulric that I'm not seeing; then your post has resulted in me currently strongly preferring 'charcoal' over 'Ulric investigation'
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- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Every time anyone suggests putting the EIC to use in intelligence gathering—which was the primary purpose it was set up for—there's a crowd saying it's too risky.
If we can't use it on the peripheral players because they're generally remote or inconsequential enough that we have no in-roads for expansion (the complaint against Nordland), and we can't use it on the major players because we don't want to risk drawing attention (the complaint against the Cult of Ulric), why are we keeping the organisation around rather than handing it off to become a passive income stream and reclaiming the half-action per turn?
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Another option would be to insert agents to Middneland nobles. They will be rather involved in the dispute one way or another but will be one degree seperated which is to be fair double edgged sword since less info but also less blowback since that looks more like bussiness as usual. Especially since EIC always made a point to have such relationships with nobles in the past.
The obvious buyer for charcoal is House Miriel. Thorek is trying to sell them metal, but he's having a hard time making it happen without a road, so I dunno. They're isolationists, so it might be good to double down on those efforts.
Don't forget the other side of the coin here: the sellers in the Empire will become more pro-contact. If we source charcoal from Ostalnd for example (and iirc last time I stared at maps for a while I thought that Ostland is likely to be the main source of charcoal until the Mist Road happens) maybe Ostland will be more in favour of peace.
That's a good point. Mathilde doesn't really have an in with the Cult of Ulric except for the way in which her working with the Eonir makes her broadly aligned with the Ar-Ulric. But we can't exactly go to the Ar-Ulric with information we got from spying on his faction, can we?
Because our apprentice is set to inherit it, and because the trade actions which the EIC can currently do are really useful to our goals, and because a half-action won't give us an extra action anyway unless we also give up on the library.
We used the EIC for intelligence gathering when we spyed on Alric, that was perfectly fine and useful. We might use the EIC to insert agents into Middenheim at a later point where EIC presence there increases, I'm not 100% sold on that being super helpful but that's definitely something we're capable of doing at a later point. There are less opportunities like that then we might like, but while "I wish the EIC intelligence network had more opportunities to shine" is an understandable sentiment it's simply not an argument for why this particular course of action is a good idea.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I'd be ok with us using it to spy on the cult of Ulric as long as our write-in communicates to Boney that our intention is to not risk anything that beyond what the cult of Ulric would accept as 'the cost of doing business' as existing as a power structure within the Empire.
Shit is going down in the cult? People are gonna ask the cult's members 'what's up?' The cult just has to accept that.
On the other hand, I'd not be ok with letting the Hochlander think that breaking in and rifling through drawers is on the table.
Unless he has mud and dirt on his face in attractive patterns while doing so as a result of sneaking through forests, of course, Then it's worth the risk.
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...basically, I'm ok the sort of action that risks drawing attention, as long as the thing we are doing that might be noticed is stuff the Cult [or sub groups within the cutl] probably won't be able to make significant hay about to the higher positioned non-cult-of-Ulric members of the Empire's hierarchies, as they would respond with 'well, yeah. everyone who does any investigation at all does that at minimum. I'm ok with people doing this to your group.'
If it's the sort of investiation action where that person might respond with 'yeah, that's a bit fucked up', then I'd not want to risk the EIC/Hochlander being caught doing that action.
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- Location
- Finland
The kind of investigative action that i would be ok with would also hapen with a generic area surveilance.
Send spies to a province/city to find out what the mood is and all that.
Like, i get wanting more of EIC spy network, i really do.
But it is not a one size fits all tool, and there are places it is not going to be helpfull, like major cults of the empire, and areas where EIC does not already have a presence.
Problem is that we have kinda moved away from areas where EIC is active, so using them as asource of information is less effective.
Send spies to a province/city to find out what the mood is and all that.
Like, i get wanting more of EIC spy network, i really do.
But it is not a one size fits all tool, and there are places it is not going to be helpfull, like major cults of the empire, and areas where EIC does not already have a presence.
Problem is that we have kinda moved away from areas where EIC is active, so using them as asource of information is less effective.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Edits the plan mostly in accordance to suggestions
Aksel does not strike me as particularly helpful for the water spirit tributary action (he probably wouldn't know the language like Zlata, or have particular social expertise in Stirland), so I'm keeping him on the River action. But I think Elrisse is professional enough to not rock the boat immediately in regards to Aksel, particularly not if he's being helpful in general.
My general idea with putting Eike on studying Old World economics with Wilhelmina was that finishing the skill should boost her Learning, which is always good (particularly when hers is currently about as good as Mathilde's was when she first started the quest as a Journeywoman!), but I suppose the EIC spice trade can only be done once, and she can always study with Wilhelmina later. I'm not really sure I want to also put her on the water spirit tributary action, as picklepikkl says, she probably can't contribute to that, and I think she might learn better if she has less things to split her attention on.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Money can be exchanged for goods and services that support an information network, improving our future position.
Like so.
So, someone brought up the charcoal trade as a way to try binding Nordland and the Eonir a bit since it would have to go through there for now, and, I just kinda wonder how the optics of that are gonna be when, a very short time later, we get the fog bridge up and suddenly nordland gets cut out as the trade moves to the better route. That just sounds like kind of a hilarious bait and switch that's likely to just piss them off more than make them like Laurelorn more.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I'm 100% with pickle on putting Egrimm on the windfall paper. I'd appreciate if someone put together a plan variant with that in it.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Haha no. Nordland is so pissed at the moment they are liable to cut their own face to spite their nose and would not allow any trade to pass. Any choarcal trade will happen other ways most likely.
I mean, you're not wrong, but the middenland route is a swamp. So unless someone's planning to find a port to send ships to laurelorn with there's not a lot of alternatives.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
If we do that, can we use our Serenity action on it or does involving Egrimm prevent that?
We'd need it to be a webmat action to have Egrimm involved. Serenity would be doing it ourselves.
Man, we need to either do some adventuring or study some artifacts, once we knock out AV sometime in the next couple turns all we have left for papers are various historical coins. Which, would not be out of character for Mathilde's academic history, but still. We can do better.
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Kurgan weapons and shrine is right there. And Kurgan weapons might be important if next Everchosen comes along with a Kurgan army. Plus Vampire skulls are there as well there might be something there.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Speaking of Nordland, I had an idea but I'm really not sure how viable it may be.
Is it a good idea to offer Nordland the Dreaming Wood tributary? It would be offering them a tangible benefit of the alliance with the Eonir, and putting them in a difficult position: if they say yes, they have to accept the Eonir alliance isn't all that bad. If they say no, they would be very directly acting against their own benefits and possibly having their peer provinces raise their eyebrows at them for not taking the very direct benefits offered to the Empire.
The problem is, I could very easily see them refusing out of spite, and then we might eventually, in the future, have to offer them a different tributary option. Do you guys think there is a way to improve this, twist their arm somehow, make them want it? Maybe spreading tributaries to Middenland, Hochland and Ostland first, so Nordland might feel jealous first?
Is it a good idea to offer Nordland the Dreaming Wood tributary? It would be offering them a tangible benefit of the alliance with the Eonir, and putting them in a difficult position: if they say yes, they have to accept the Eonir alliance isn't all that bad. If they say no, they would be very directly acting against their own benefits and possibly having their peer provinces raise their eyebrows at them for not taking the very direct benefits offered to the Empire.
The problem is, I could very easily see them refusing out of spite, and then we might eventually, in the future, have to offer them a different tributary option. Do you guys think there is a way to improve this, twist their arm somehow, make them want it? Maybe spreading tributaries to Middenland, Hochland and Ostland first, so Nordland might feel jealous first?
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MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
With Swamp Town brought up. I once again feel the great need to repost this
(Loud)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idm4ASlBrUU
LUSTRIA
NOT EVEN ONCE
(Loud)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idm4ASlBrUU
LUSTRIA
NOT EVEN ONCE
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