[ ] Tributary: International (specify country) Share information and expertise on how and where to create the tributaries to supplement existing Waystone networks.
I think I've mentioned this before but it's been a while, so I'll reiterate: giving Kislev the ability to create tributaries using their own internal resources is an incredibly high value deliverable and also there's serious value in giving out that deliverable either first or in the first wave.
They're the closest to the chaos wastes so magic has to get past them to get to everyone else to an extent, they're semi-regularly under siege from chaotic forces and storms so an increased radius of relative safety around their cities is very useful, and they've already got a direct use case for any extra magic they take in in the form of ice magic.
And while prioritizing them may cause some grumbling in the empire, it's a very strong signal to Bretonnia and others that we're serious about addressing the needs of contributing allies and that there are real benefits to joining the project. It's not a mandatory pick but I think we should seriously consider this option, optionally paired with distributing tributaries to Stirland or other high priority areas.
You mean Shadow Warriors? Because Shadow Warriors flat out aren't assassins. They're fantastic guerilla fighters, but the two skillsets aren't the same. Especially in regards to faking the assassination as the work of someone else.
I mean shadow walkers, the ulgu-using elites of that bunch, they tend to be assassins since they get sent after high value targets sometimes behind enemy lines.
TBH, as memorable as would be to get our own Nine Black riders, I think that the Handmaidens would be much more useful for Mathilde's fighting style...
Handmaid are useless to us mostly because everything that they can do we can do better. We want a pokemon to fight with not spy for us.
Red riders are great for when we are rumbled and want to quickly throw out a pocket knight. Also easier to control just point at target and let it's instincts do the rest.
You do realize that wasn´t any sort of opinion ding from him, just sort of incredulous disbelief this is even possible.
People are not going to go "Oh you pioneered a new approach entirely dependent on researching unknown phenomena" and go "fuck you for keeping it to yourself until it was ready".
I mean shadow walkers, the ulgu-using elites of that bunch, they tend to be assassins since they get sent after high value targets sometimes behind enemy lines.
Not sure where you get the idea they're used as assassins? Total War just has them be Shaow Warriors +1 basically. Experience, loyal vets. Better at the same things, not with a different skillset. Which makes sense as outside of Total War, they're just unit champions.
I like Mathilde musing on how Swamp Town is doing, given the recent talk that was had on paths not taken. Anyway, here's my idea.
[] Plan Codifying and Swords
-[] Overwork: Yes
-[] COIN: The Gambler
-[] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it. (The Gambler)
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them. (Hand-switching)
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them. (Double-tap)
-[] Waystone: Capstone (Hatalath, Thorek, Elrisse, Egrimm, Max, Johann, Aksel)
-[] Waystone: Leyline Prototype (River) (Sarvoi, Cadaeth, Baba Niedzwenka, Elrisse, Tochter)
-[] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Baba Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max)
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Nuln; use KaK Metalsmithing Guild Boon)
-[] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual (FADED)
-[] Eike Actions: Branulhune training, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Study Petty spells
Pros of this plan:
+Everyone in the Project is kept occupied with important things.
+We finally start codifying RoW.
+We finally finish our sword style and go up to Master in our Greatsword skill, which will come in handy if any evil fate birds pop up or if we go looking for the Iron Orcs next turn.
+Roswita and Niklaus would probably auto-clear the tributaries, and Mathilde has recently helped out the Council of Manhorak, which would be a good choice for spreading the Water Spirit tributaries (which itself is probably the one best suited for Stirland). After doing so, other Elector Counts will hopefully be more inclined to think 'hang on, I want one of those too!' and smooth over future negotiations.
Cons of this plan:
-The amount of people on Capstone may or may not be overkill as with the Rune action, we don't really know how hard it will be.
-I went with the Leylines action because I felt it is important, but I put Aksel and Zlata in it because I'm not sure where else to put them and I wanted everyone to contribute in some way. They might be a bit clunky. By comparison, I feel like Sarvoi might really shine here, and so might Niedzwenka if we end up poking the spirit near the Tarn of Tears portal.
-We've doubled up on actions with WEB-MAT and members of the Project before without any trouble, but I will still note that Max and Niedzwenka are doing two actions this turn. Max is probably fine with it, hopefully so will be Niedzwenka.
--I know that a lot of people would rather negotiate with Ulthuan for the passphrases instead of doing the River Leylines action, but I really think the answer would be an immediate and very strong 'no' unless we either negotiated with some very strong cards up our sleeve ("hey we already have a prototype waystone, we're asking as courtesy"; possibly using The Gambler), or if we trick them by implying it's only Laurelorn that's asking. In light of that, I would rather try out the Rivers at least once.
I'm going to bed, so I won't be able to answer any responses for a while.
Edit: Modified the plan in accordance to some people's ideas.
Well, that's great for our action economy and bad for my plans, because it means doing the Iron Orcs should happen on a father turn. Damn it. @Boney I think you said you were going to put Eike's character sheet in the turn plan near the Eike section, right now the only way to see it is to go to turn 40 part 1 (and it's outdated since Eike learned some stuff in turn 40 part 2)
Well, that's great for our action economy and bad for my plans, because it means doing the Iron Orcs should happen on a father turn. Damn it. @Boney I think you said you were going to put Eike's character sheet in the turn plan near the Eike section, right now the only way to see it is to go to turn 40 part 1 (and it's outdated since Eike learned some stuff in turn 40 part 2)
[ ] Plan: Fast and Hasty
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them (4/5).
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them (5/5).
-[ ] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Damsels)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it. [GAMBLER]
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Sarvoi, Hatalath, Elrisse, Thorek, Cadaeth, Niedzwenka, Egrimm, Zlata, Aksel, Tochter)
-[ ] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek)
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Negotiate with Nuln for Books (Metalsmiths Boon)
-[ ] SERENITY: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands (with Egrimm?)
-[ ] Eike Actions: EIC, SERENITY
-[ ] Eike Study: Continue Magic Lessons, Sparring sessions with the Undumgi
Thoughts: Ditched WEB-MAT, there's not a lot of benefit it it this turn (I know I've argued extensively for only doing the capstone as a web-mat action, but the efficiency bonus isn't worth much if there's nothing to spend it on). Double swording into Iron Orcs sounds good, and recruiting the Damsels is technically a waystone action, so we're keeping our pattern of doing three of those. Everything else is pretty standard, and probably going to be very similar to everyone else's plans.
Concerning Eike, I think sending her to spar with the Undumgi as her martial training will be beneficial—not only does it introduce her to a new group of people to befriend, but the Undumgi's main responsibility is guarding trade routes. It also mirrors Mathilde sparring with the Greatswords—she needed to learn to fight, and they were the best fighters in the area. I've put her on the windfall paper as well so we can gain insight into her windsight—could be interesting.
Thorek Ironbrow doesn't spend much time at Karak Eight Peaks of late, but he does pass through it quite regularly as he travels to every corner of the extant Karaz Ankor to establish his status in person. Your status as Loremaster means you're able to secure a meeting with him when next he passes through, and he spends some time inspecting the vial.
"The undifferentiated substance of the Polar Realm," he says slowly. "It can be contained safely?" You hand over your design for a runic array to keep it suspended and isolated, and he spends even more time studying that. "And division can be reliably induced. If the repellent fields could ensure a specific amount is dropped onto a catalyst..."
If those secondary characters are irreplaceable assets that are absolutely necessary to realize our main goal, we should absolutely be extremely cautious. I don't call risking what we're trying to do « living a little », I call that « being not cautious ».
And let's not overstate the risks, such a powerful adventuring party would probaly be the stuff of legend, each of the member probably have quite a bit of survivability even on their own considering they did survive hundreds of years or even millenias on a deathworld AND they'd be with other heavy hitters AND we have the SoR.
Are those big shots likely to die? No, of course. But the risk isn't worth taking anyway, because as a I said some are completely irreplaceable and necessary for the Project to continue, while their death would be a massive political shitshow.
Concerning Mathilde being in danger, she's the protagonist of the quest and has multiple advantages that no one else has to protect herself, and we have direct control of her which isn't the case for the other members.
The first would be a major fucking win but it will probably still hurt in case we are wildly succesfull and it turns out we could, in fact, have used the nexuses the same way the aethyric shunt is used. Or like, any other cool use of the network.
No they don't? The Asur don't really do assassination. The Druchii do, they have probably the best assassins in the world, but the Asur never seem to have developed that capability, possibly because of association with the Druchii, possibly because of association with Khaine.
Asur politics are rarely decided by assassinations, but it happens sometimes. And many real-life historical polities practiced political assassinations without a dedicated order of ninja.
The Asur also have to deal with foreign enemies leading armies, so they very probably have people very good at sneaking and murdering. I bet there's plenty of elves with the same skillset as Mathilde, especially among the Nagarythian. Those guys don't care about honor, I'm pretty sure they have dedicated assassins to kill Druchii commanders protected by magic.
Now I don't think the Asurs would try to kill us, but they certainly would be able to make a good try.
Ok, so I've had to quickly revise my plans for two reasons:
1. The fact that the Iron Orcs action is baked into the recruitment of the Damsels means we'll want it in a Father turn, which means it cannot happen this turn because this turn we are codifying RoW with the Gambler (non-negotiable)
2. The fact that tributary roll-outs are one action per tributary per province means it is going to be a royal pain in the ass to keep everyone in the project busy with a small (3) number of actions, and this is going to be a continuous problem. In particular, actions that involve a small number of project members (such as Bugman's Brewery, which should probably involve only 1) will be a nightmare to work into plans.
In light of this, here's my original plan, which in a dream world in which our project members are fine chilling in our HQ for months is still what I'll vote for.
[ ] Plan Lore and Metal
-[ ] Waystone: Mapping (Tilea, Estalia) (Johann)
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Cloak of Flashy Escapes (Shadowcloak + Dazzling Brightness)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
-[ ]SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
[ ] Plan Lore and Metal, Keeping Busy Edition
-[ ] Waystone: Mapping (Tilea, Estalia) (Johann)
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Cloak of Flashy Escapes (Shadowcloak + Dazzling Brightness)
-[ ] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[ ] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundaries)
-[ ]SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[ ] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windherding enchantment, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[ ] Contains Overwork
This is basically my original plan, but I've removed Bugman's Brewery (which hurts my soul) in favour of rolling out water spirits tributaries, and added Sarvoi to the capstone. I'll explain my reasoning for most of my plan in detail soon, but since I've already talked about that before I just want to discuss the idea behind the changes.
Plan Lore and Metal, Keeping Busy Edition attempts to strike a balance between doing personal projects and self improvement action and keeping as many project members as possible busy. Not using a project member now forces us to use them in the near future - specifically, in the followingtwo turns - so any plans that utilize less project members force our hands in future turns, in all likelihood forcing us to take a large number of personal (non WEB-MAT) Waystone project actions.
Therefore I have added Sarvoi to the Capstone, not because I think he's definitely going to be a huge help but because he might and since his house is set to build our Waystones it's not unreasonable to have him study a Waystone component. Instead of Bugman's nexus, I've decided to roll out the Water Spirit tributary in Stirland, as this is both an objectively good first candidate for a tributary roll out and one we can get a decent number of project members working on. So why did I put all those people on the Water Spirit tributary?
Niedzwenka is obvious. Zlata is there because the arcane language the ritual uses is Scythian, the language used by both Ice Witches and Hags. Distributing the ritual will involve getting teachers to teach that language to potential casters, which the Ice Court could be helpful for. Max is there because he's the Imperial Wizard who was involved in developing the ritual. Tochter is there because this is the first implementation of a ritual based on her translated druidic rituals so it'll be impolite not to, and I think it's likely that the Jades are going to be the main College to provide casters willing to learn a Waystone related ritual involving nature spirits. Cadaeth is here for her insights on nature spirits? Look I'll be honest she's probably not going to be much help, not with Niedzwenka involved, but I can kind of make the argument that she might free Niedzwenka to do other stuff, maybe. The real reason is to keep her involved in something.
This gets every project member except Aksel doing something. I can't think of any easy solutions to this. I guess we can shove him into the water spirit tributary roll out because Hedgewise have some insights into spirits? I dunno.
I'm not sure what this would mean in practice. Is the idea that the spirit wrangler can just get the spirit to the right place and have it stay put and someone else can take over doing the actual ritual or something?
I'm fairly sure the Asur wouldn't try to assassinate Mathilde because of how much she has helped the dwarves. She restored two whole holds to them and has the gratitude of the leaders of those holds. If the assassination is traced back to them who knows how the dwarves react? Not to mention the Empire who would be dragged along into any conflict with the Elves by virtue of their alliance and the chance to have another go at Marienburg. It would probably also crash relations with Laurelorn which would see the Asur trying to stop them from improving their home.
Is there anything in particular you want Eike to get out of studying the Lustrian Rubbings? You were the one who convinced me we should keep her actions low so she could study more, so it seems especially out of left field as a fourth action.
Is there anything in particular you want Eike to get out of studying the Lustrian Rubbings? You were the one who convinced me we should keep her actions low so she could study more, so it seems especially out of left field as a fourth action.
It's a research action to which Eike can actually contribute, which is a rarity, as most of our research involves magical stuff that Eike isn't remotely qualified to work on. For most research actions Eike tagging along means Eike just gets to watch others working, but this will give Eike a chance to experience research and give Mathilde a chance to assess Eike's research skills. Regarding specific skills, I think the study of the Lustrian rubbings will involve some linguistics (the rubbings are of plaques IIRC) and that's something that Mathilde has particular skill in which she could hopfully impart on Eike.
What are the mechanical effects of having a magic stat higher then 7?
It needs to be 7+ in order to cast Fiendishly Complex spells reliably and to cast battle magic at all, but what mechanical advantage would Mathilde with her magic stat of 9 have over someone with a magic stat of only 7?
@Boney I hope I'm not being too pedantic, but I believe the last draft of the ritual required merely the presence of a water spirit?
I'm not sure what this would mean in practice. Is the idea that the spirit wrangler can just get the spirit to the right place and have it stay put and someone else can take over doing the actual ritual or something?
You're right, fixed. The exact details of the literally spiritual requirements are lost on Mathilde, being untutored in the finer details of spirit wrangling.
What are the mechanical effects of having a magic stat higher then 7?
It needs to be 7+ in order to cast Fiendishly Complex spells reliably and to cast battle magic at all, but what mechanical advantage would Mathilde with her magic stat of 9 have over someone with a magic stat of only 7?
Having more magical oomph is an advantage for prolonged casting, casting in suboptimal conditions, and in contests of raw magical power if someone attempts to dispel you with brute force.
An anti-demon item would serve as preparation for Liminal Realm research. A prudent precaution given what has been experienced so far. Something like the Thurible for example to ward away and otherwise weaken demons in an area could do much to assist in the event that they need to be kept at bay while more the realm is reinforced against them.
[] Plan Codifying and Swords
-[] Overwork: Yes
-[] COIN: The Gambler
-[] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it. (The Gambler)
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them. (Hand-switching)
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them. (Double-tap)
-[] Waystone: Capstone (Hatalath, Thorek, Elrisse, Egrimm, Max, Johann)
-[] Waystone: Leyline Prototype (River) (Sarvoi, Cadaeth, Baba Niedzwenka, Tochter, Aksel, Zlata)
-[] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Baba Niedzwenka, Max)
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Nuln; any library that doesn't run fast enough when Mathilde rolls into town; use KaK Metalsmithing Guild Boon)
-[] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual (FADED)
-[] Eike Actions: Branulhune training
-[] Eike Study: Study Petty spells, continue learning about Old World Economics with Wilhelmina
Elrisse should be on the river leyline action. She's the one who suggested the idea in the first place, because this is apparently something the Nehekharan network did.
...and if we put Elrisse on the river leylines we might want to reconsider putting Aksel on it, I'm kind of worried about those two sharing a room. otoh it's not clear what Aksel can do otherwise, so???
Zlata should be on the Water Spirit tributary, as part of implementing that is teaching Scythian to the casters which will implement the tributaries, and the Ice Witches know Scythian.
If there a reason Eike isn't on the EIC action? You have her study economics with Wilhelmina so it seems you'll also want her to actually experience economics. Unlike the spice trade, which was mainly a diplomatic effort, I think charcoal trading will require some non-trivial logistics, making it a potentially educational Stewardship action.
We should probably nail down a standard phrasing of the Nuln deal, and it should be probably be something other than 'any library that doesn't run fast enough'. That's funny and all, but not all voters read the thread religiously and a lot of them haven't read about the Nuln deal is and will have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
When a tsunami comes the first sign at the shore is the water receding, ebbing away, as all the water is pulled into the giant wave rising out of the ocean in the distance.
In this case it means all of the chaos warbands and such are heading up to the wastes for their tournament and all the cults are focusing on prep work. So less raiding and scheming for a few years or decades then all of that trouble hits at once.
I'm in favor of the Ithilmar trade. The EIC's doctrine of preferring steady sustainable trade over big windfalls is just that - a preference of one over the other. There is no steady sustainable alternative to the Ithilmar sale, we either take the opportunity and reap the windfall or allow someone else to take it leaving us nothing.
Out of everything on the EIC's plate, I really do not think anything justifies the opportunity cost of letting this expire.
To what end? More money is not useful for us and a one-time trade will not improve our position in the future. If Wilhelmina wants to organise it she is more than welcome to do so. But for us the EIC is a tool for supporting an information network, not a money generator.
. That said, outside of Sniktch himself, I'd generally rate the Khainites as better than Eshin on average.
