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Another thought:

The Aetheric Vitae is specifically noted as burrowing down into the wall between Reality and the Aether, where it sort of... exploded into not-spacetime before it got there.

Supposing you managed to you keep that motion going, kept it from exploding as it passed the barrier, and instead drilled all the way down into the aether and just kept it going and going indefinitely as more and more magic followed it in...

Was this part of how the Great Vortex was made?
 
You know what led to Archaon becoming Everchosen?
Finding out that he was supposed to be the Everchosen, but it's not the knowledge that did it, it's the fact that he decided to go with it. once Sigmar didn't answer one of his prayers.
"Oh if this is my Fate then there's no fighting it."

This feels like the opposite of what Mathilde's reaction would be, even if Ranald failed her, she feels far more like a "Rage against the dying of the light" kind of person.
And I seriously doubt Ranald would refuse to answer her like that, if anything he would like it, a chance to steal a potential everchosen.
 
It's not an entirely awful idea. We don't know what the ??? marks are, but it would be important to find out. It could be something as simple as 'we can hear the bird again', or as bad as 'the bird is going to take the opportunity to start teaching us evil baking recipes'.

If we get into a fight with a chaos sorcerer before we know, we could be risking disaster. Actively seeking out a small, safe example and then poking it in a safety room with safety equipment, is an actually smart option. It doesn't need us to use Dhar personally, and if Arcane Marks can get votes on the basis of 'knowing ourself better', then this should definitely qualify.

If it's just the bird talking to us more, then we know, and we can fight Chaos sorcerers slightly more comfortably. If it's the bird doing something else, then we know, and we know to avoid casting around Chaos sorcerers.
Honestly, it probably doesn't even qualify as studying the dark lores, since we're just testing our magic around it. Granted, I highly doubt anyone would listen to that excuse if they had any idea we were doing anything other than just destroying a Dark artifact, but still.
You need to get the body out of the way so the Vitae can be where the soul is.
Ah, I was meaning a more humorous "I doubt being disembodied will help stop her from feeling strong emotions or casting magic." You know, like fear, or instinctive reactions to fear. Or even just basically the only thing she could do as a disembodied soul.
 
So besides storage what can we use a liminal realm for? There are the well forest realms which have Forrest spirits. So maybe ulgu spirits.
 
You know what led to Archaon becoming Everchosen?
Finding out that he was supposed to be the Everchosen, but it's not the knowledge that did it, it's the fact that he decided to go with it. once Sigmar didn't answer one of his prayers.
"Oh if this is my Fate then there's no fighting it."

This feels like the opposite of what Mathilde's reaction would be, even if Ranald failed her, she feels far more like a "Rage against the dying of the light" kind of person.
And I seriously doubt Ranald would refuse to answer her like that, if anything he would like it, a chance to steal a potential everchosen.
It wasn't even that Sigmar refused to answer, Tzeentch was explicitly and deliberately cutting his divine telephone lines to Dietrich Kastner so he couldn't tell him otherwise.
 
...Do we want to secure a pocket fence around a Liminal realm we make before writing the book? I'm all for the Morbs before the book, but the picket fence sounds like an unknown amount of actions to drop there.

I mean, I'm all for it, but I really want to just finish that damned book before jumping to anything else.

Sidenote, I'm very glad that the people speculating AV didn't have weaponization and who pushed for doing all the research first were right.
 
Ah, I was meaning a more humorous "I doubt being disembodied will help stop her from feeling strong emotions or casting magic." You know, like fear, or instinctive reactions to fear. Or even just basically the only thing she could do as a disembodied soul.

It actually might help with the strong emotion. It is possible to think an emotion, but without all the glands and instincts of a body it's a lot easier to avoid doing so.
 
Tlanxla is both the name of an Old One and a Temple-City; the Old One is a warrior who is noted to ride around in a sky chariot, and the Temple-City also has associations with the heavens and sky.

Why the daemon brings it up in reference to Mathilde is less clear; from context it likely that "you and yours who have so wonderfully usurped the Sword of Tlanxla" means either the Grey Order in specific or just those of the 'Order' factions in general. The implication would either be that tlanxla had some association with Ulgu/paranoia/Secret Police-y things or the tendency of those on the good side of things to get so bent out of shape by the words of daemons, looking for landmines in every word a daemon speaks and in doing so inventing more dangers than the daemons could ever actually plant. I like the potential of Tlanxla possibily being a Ulgu/Secret Police Old One for simplicity, but don't know of much in canon to support it (not that i'm very well read in Warhammer canon, I just hyperfocused on Lizardmen lore for a while for a quest I ran).

The Sky is a place of liminality, an edge that depicts Darkness and Light, more importantly Twilight.

Ulgu is the Shadow, is the Light, is the Eclipse.

The Sword cuts in all ways, but makes more vectors.

Change is similar to the Flux and Edge Case that is Ulgu and is tied to Ranald and his Deific Family.

The Liminal Realm created by the Vitae was not Hell/Chaos itself, it was adjacent to it.

Betwixt and between the Realms.

Just a shame about the Timing and the Feather Fooker being near enough to sow doubt.

Pocket Realities would be amazing to make use of.

I guess next time we need a Rune Lord there to help lay Claim and Ward it against the Four Cankers.
 
Honestly, it probably doesn't even qualify as studying the dark lores, since we're just testing our magic around it. Granted, I highly doubt anyone would listen to that excuse if they had any idea we were doing anything other than just destroying a Dark artifact, but still.
It doesn't even have to be us doing something other than just destroying a Dark Artifact. Just go find a place where some guys have one, mess around a bit to figure out what's going on, and then toss the artifact into the bonfire we've made of the rest of their house, or whatever.

If the spells we cast around it are stuff like taking out some remaining bad guys or knocking people out, it would basically be impossible to see a difference between what we would normally be doing in that situation and what we would be trying to do.

@Boney, can we get an option such as this to investigate our new trait next turn?

(Finding and rooting out a specific flavor of cult on short notice is a bit much, but I think I recall the Templars having the option to call on the Colleges for help, so maybe they have a request board or something? That could be one sub-option.)
 
If we get into a fight with a chaos sorcerer before we know, we could be risking disaster. Actively seeking out a small, safe example and then poking it in a safety room with safety equipment, is an actually smart option. It doesn't need us to use Dhar personally, and if Arcane Marks can get votes on the basis of 'knowing ourself better', then this should definitely qualify.

If it's just the bird talking to us more, then we know, and we can fight Chaos sorcerers slightly more comfortably. If it's the bird doing something else, then we know, and we know to avoid casting around Chaos sorcerers.
The problem is that "something else" might mean a beak popping out of our forehead or such.

It should also be noted that we're not just dealing with potentially dangerous magical radiation; we are dealing with the attention of a malign God. If we try this, Tzeentch will know and be able to respond due to its power being present. This is not the sort of problem that can be gamed through careful laboratory procedures.
 
So besides storage what can we use a liminal realm for? There are the well forest realms which have Forrest spirits. So maybe ulgu spirits.
If it has to be stationary? Not really sure. It would take a long time to build up enough AV for anything very big, unless we can get Hatalath to spill a more reliable method for getting it.
It actually might help with the strong emotion. It is possible to think an emotion, but without all the glands and instincts of a body it's a lot easier to avoid doing so.
…You're really not making this less tempting. :V

More seriously… has there been a method for temporary disembodying mentioned before? I imagine Hatalath could probably manage it, and unless we want Mathilde doing this to herself would probably be the guy we want doing it anyways. Still seems stupidly dangerous though, though having a pocket dimension in our soul would be hilariously awesome.
 
The problem is that "something else" might mean a beak popping out of our forehead or such.

It should also be noted that we're not just dealing with potentially dangerous magical radiation; we are dealing with the attention of a malign God. If we try this, Tzeentch will know and be able to respond due to its power being present. This is not the sort of problem that can be gamed through careful laboratory procedures.
If we incur a mutation, it's better that that happens somewhere with no witnesses and nobody trying to kill us than in the middle of a high-stakes battle against the forces of evil.

We are going to be exposed to bird magic again. That's because the bird is a bad guy and it will not politely stay away from us just because that might be an inconvenience to us.

All we get to choose is whether we're at home or in a fight. (I exist in the state of having advocated for both locations, but a fight we picked ourselves is much less suspicious, you do have to admit.)
 
Hey, I wonder, is that which grants inertia to reality related to the Glittering Realm that runecraft supposedly draws power from?

Because it kind of sounds like it.
 
Hmm. Random thought, but I wonder if the combination of doing Waystone research, creating Orbs of Sorcery, and making a Liminal Realm would be enough to get Teclis' attention, assuming we somehow managed to get word of all three to him. That's a lot of tricks he probably never really expected humans to figure out, let alone one person in quick succession.
 
I still feel like one of, if not the main, moves by this asshole is to force us not into paranoia but into secretiveness. That is, not to inspire "Should we doubt our allies? Should we doubt ourselves? Should we kill ourselves (which is crazy)?" but instead to make us go "We can't tell anybody about this."

Because, like, although it could be the case that the next update or two will confirm "Actually there is no more liminal realm there anymore; it vanished in a puff after you drained it" and thus we no longer have to worry about it? It could be the case that we do have to worry about the liminal realm and thus also "Is there a birdbrain watching it, or near it, or doing something to it, or capable of acting if somebody enters or expands the liminal realm or...?"

... I mean, probably not, because I think liminal realms die if they aren't fed magic, so... And there is no more magic fed into this place, so. But it's still something that can be checked or ought to be checked. And which would require the Grey Order or whatnot.

Not like we necessarily need to tell everything. But, just... gah. Don't want to overcorrect in the other direction either.

Mgh. The Grey Order -- all the Colleges, really -- have liminal realms. They must know how to keep them safe, no. They might know how to fumigate them or secure them. Or collapse them, if need be, maybe? I wonder if the Hedgewise, or Krupfer (Kupther?) might have any relevant knowledge too. Laurelorn likely does, but, well.

... Hopefully this is 'just' a "You were tempted and word-gamed by a Daemon" thing. i.e. We don't have to worry about the liminal realm, or the place we conducted this experiment in, or etc.
Which means that the Winds can't be born of the mere inertia of what already is. Reality is being imposed upon Chaos by something other than reality.
The fact that the interruption happens immediately after this thought is telling, I think. An implicit clue to Mathilde of what chaos wants (to break) and how they might be ultimately defeated.
Perhaps it might be that "no, the Aethyr isn't inherently 'the Realm of Chaos'; the Aethyr is instead 'the Realm formed by the Great Machines.' It's just that the 4 Chaos Gods are the 4 immortals that are squatting over the Polar Gates and thus having a level of influence over the stuff to some extent."
Why do you think you were able to pull back so many of the generations born in Chaos from the Desolation Hold? Because the sweetest of victories was not those bludgeoned into submission and dragged off in chains, but those that would forge the chains themselves.
This one I think is another lie. The panic and disarray on the demon side when we cut off the power and everything crashed back into reality strongly suggests that there was never any intention of letting any of the dwarves born there go. So this would be the demon flattering Mathilde about her value again, while putting a happy face on what was a pretty serious loss. Chaos god egos demanding a loss be spun into a "we meant to do that" story.
While I think it's a lie from a "I meant to do that!" perspective, I think it's a half-lie half-truth from a "We want willingly-damned souls because it's more fun (and for no other reason, honest)!" perspective.

The real reason to favor focusing on people who can resist you over people who can't resist you is; prioritization. People who can resist you, can stop you or defeat you. They're the ones you need to bribe. People who'll do your bidding forever, you don't need to focus on as much. However. Obviously, it is only loyal people who will be granted real power and responsibility or authority. That's just sensible. Not-fully-committed people will be tempted and bribed and threatened and blackmailed tho'.

Also, by setting up a "We do it for the pleasure" theme, they can then further advance that by going "You can depend on the Four to not want to be bored." Even going "You'll be able to keep the whole world! ... So long as you amuse us."
 
More seriously… has there been a method for temporary disembodying mentioned before? I imagine Hatalath could probably manage it, and unless we want Mathilde doing this to herself would probably be the guy we want doing it anyways. Still seems stupidly dangerous though, though having a pocket dimension in our soul would be hilariously awesome.
Shyish has a spell just for taking someone's soul out, The Animus Imprisoned, and an Amethyst or a Morrite can put it back. However, all wizards within 5 miles can feel the spell taking place and obviously Amethysts are EXTREMELY careful about learning or casting it.

I don't want to encourage this nonsense but I'm just laying out the facts for you.

Edit: Also the person who has their soul extracted gains a good number of Insanity Points from the harrowing experience.
 
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More seriously… has there been a method for temporary disembodying mentioned before? I imagine Hatalath could probably manage it, and unless we want Mathilde doing this to herself would probably be the guy we want doing it anyways. Still seems stupidly dangerous though, though having a pocket dimension in our soul would be hilariously awesome.
There's also the Celestial Project Spirit and Hedgewise Hedgewalk spells, which are astral projection.
 
Seriously though, I really want to go up to Hatalath next turn and just randomly ask "hey, how did you stop the Daemons from getting into your realm?" Even just asking it would probably hint that we know how to make one.
Mgh. The Grey Order -- all the Colleges, really -- have liminal realms. They must know how to keep them safe, no. They might know how to fumigate them or secure them. Or collapse them, if need be, maybe? I wonder if the Hedgewise, or Krupfer (Kupther?) might have any relevant knowledge too. Laurelorn likely does, but, well.
Teclis made those, not the Orders. Unless they need regular upkeep and he left instructions despite the fact that his trip home was supposed to be short, they might not know.
Shyish has a spell just for taking someone's soul out, The Animus Imprisoned, and an Amethyst or a Morrite can put it back. However, all wizards within 5 miles can feel the spell taking place and obviously Amethysts are EXTREMELY careful about learning or casting it.

I don't want to encourage this nonsense but I'm just laying out the facts for you.
Thanks. And yeah, I'm not actually suggesting this, honestly trying to figure out how hard it would be so I can beat other people over the head with what would need to be done.
 
@Boney, can we get an option such as this to investigate our new trait next turn?

(Finding and rooting out a specific flavor of cult on short notice is a bit much, but I think I recall the Templars having the option to call on the Colleges for help, so maybe they have a request board or something? That could be one sub-option.)

Sure. Remind me if I forget.

More seriously… has there been a method for temporary disembodying mentioned before? I imagine Hatalath could probably manage it, and unless we want Mathilde doing this to herself would probably be the guy we want doing it anyways. Still seems stupidly dangerous though, though having a pocket dimension in our soul would be hilariously awesome.

There's a bunch of ways using necromancy. Outside of that, the Amethysts have a spell called The Animus Imprisoned that removes the soul from the body and stores it inside something, though it renders the soul helpless so you'd need someone else to do the squeezing part. It's also not a fun time for the subject.
 
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