I do not like that choice of words in the context of birds.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
well, as Kratos and Atreus put it best.
'We do it because it is right, not because it is written.'
no point getting knickers in a twist, all we really can do is keep trucking and trying to make the world better than we left it.
and if we do so, even if a big bird sits in a corner saying shit like 'all according to plan'
we can respond honestly with 'ya, my plan.'
'We do it because it is right, not because it is written.'
no point getting knickers in a twist, all we really can do is keep trucking and trying to make the world better than we left it.
and if we do so, even if a big bird sits in a corner saying shit like 'all according to plan'
we can respond honestly with 'ya, my plan.'
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- Location
- Who knows?
Well. That was absolutely fucking Brilliant Boney. I'm in awe and my brains are scrambled.
side note, i think the books note Teclis' sword is bathed in thr blood of Demons so this might track.
side note, i think the books note Teclis' sword is bathed in thr blood of Demons so this might track.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Please fill in the blank with a word from the post fragment I'm currently quoting:No, I said it wouldn't be an explosion.And there wasn't!
"The most recent update triggered a _________ of discussion."
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
The fact that the interruption happens immediately after this thought is telling, I think. An implicit clue to Mathilde of what chaos wants (to break) and how they might be ultimately defeated.
I'm thinking of that noble we killed in her bed for being on the list of lamian assets. We killed, and a lot died, for suspicion and involvement with proscribed gods, not even chaos or vampires knowingly. And then we boosted someone who spent a dozen years as a literal vampire lady into the throne.
I think this is, at very least, a good reminder of double standards- the code Mathilde enforces vs embraces.
On the other hand, the demon being aware of that murder implies that it was justified more than we knew.
Interestingly enough, the actual answer here seems to be "determine it doesn't matter, so accept the statement at face value and don't think any deeper". But keeping an eye on the ball is how you cut through stuff like this, right?
Explicit "this is what's going on, and it's ramping up" statement. Also, unfortunately, impossible to call a lie because it is always happening, except when an everchosen is currently crowned.
As was pointed out in thread, the question of "when" is very open to interpretation. But it's another good example of how the demon mixes factual statements that we know are factual statements in to prevent everything from being dismissed as lies.
Like this. I actually think this is a lie- flattery to set up the tension in calling out other candidates, but also the sort of thing that will weaken Mathilde, if she believes herself more effective than her potential opponents.
The interesting thing here is that the demon specifically calls out two light college Lord Magisters, who would not have been identified by any of the standard checks until they were VERY far down the party of everchosen.
The implication that she could get away with it too is there, as well as the question of how much detail the chaos gods gets through surveillance of the colleges. (So either he's watching all the time everywhere, or those two really did give him a reason to care about them specifically.)
Another true line. Although very much meant ironically, I think, in the "by the time you realize you shouldn't have done this it'll be too late" sort of victim blaming gloating demons are known for.
This one I think is another lie. The panic and disarray on the demon side when we cut off the power and everything crashed back into reality strongly suggests that there was never any intention of letting any of the dwarves born there go. So this would be the demon flattering Mathilde about her value again, while putting a happy face on what was a pretty serious loss. Chaos god egos demanding a loss be spun into a "we meant to do that" story.
- Location
- Who knows?
Oh hey look at how fast this thread is moving! Ugh, I think we really really ought to confide in someone since isolation is always step 1 in emotional manipulation, but who and in what order is still???? To me.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
A good thing to remember in these trying times. Tzeentch is an unfathomably massive deity who can think In a billion and one directions without even trying. Boney, however, is an entirely limited mortal who can only be so clever, and he's the one who wrote this. (Not to say Boney can't be really clever at times, but there is a limit)
Since, you know, you're thinking on the meta level anyways.
We can get even more paranoid than that. The demon drew our attention to the people we were already suspecting in Mathilde's orbit. Why might he do that? Well, obviously, it sows more distrust. But more than that? It gets us to focus on the named people and ignore everyone else. Could another threat be hidden among the people it didn't name?
Maybe the empress with a dark secret, who'd do anything to protect her son? The ice crone who came into possession of a powerful Chaos artifact? Maybe the prideful dragon-riding Elven lord with a taste for combat? (Ok, probably not, Deathfang would eat him.)
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
If you feel like answering / can answer (since it is possible the research tree hasn't been defined), will our next turn's AV research actions be the Orbs of Sorcery possibilities + weaponization, or have we unlocked a followup? For that matter, is the weaponization still there as an option, or has it disappeared the way other things have when we've cleared out associated research?
Just trying to gauge how close we are to being able to write the book.
Unrelated, but this has big "there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance" energy, and I am here for it.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
An observation: Given that the process of creating AV isn't some grand act of magic, that it's just pushing on it. Pushing perfectly evenly, perhaps, but just a simple push on a substance not connected to to the wizard doing so.
You know what else does that? Runelore. And the greatest of all Runelords are also the ones with the best capacity to do that pushing.
I think this, absent the daemon, is the result Kragg would have gotten from AV experimentation.
No wonder the Daemon was trying to psyche us out of telling them.
You know what else does that? Runelore. And the greatest of all Runelords are also the ones with the best capacity to do that pushing.
I think this, absent the daemon, is the result Kragg would have gotten from AV experimentation.
No wonder the Daemon was trying to psyche us out of telling them.
Whirlwind
- Location
- Canada (eh)
I see even Mathilde is engaging in some career cushioning in case this research chair position doesn't work out. But can anyone blame her after getting laid off from her last two positions?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Interesting possibility for weaponization- there might possibly be a way to make a Pit of Shades out of this?
Though I don't think we'd want to experiment far enough to get there.
- Location
- Oklahoma
I took that differently- its not about whether or not Chaos cared about us pulling Vlag back in, but rather about how many dwarves still lived (uncorrupted) in Vlag when we did.
They're saying that they didn't just overwhelm Vlag and drag them all off because they wanted the dwarves within to surrender willingly. Which was already suspected.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
IIRC the vampires were pretending to be chaos worshippers. Assuming the bird didn't just read Mathilde's mind for relevant memories, it's possible they had drawn legitimate attention by accident.
…I mean, Gazul made an afterlife.
So, dissecting the lies here, because there are some pretty good ones, and some pretty mediocre ones, too.
And comparing her to Alberich is also clumsy - he was in the end stages of a murderous ritual of dedication, had already taken many steps down that path, and was clearly not redeemable.
*Well, he was at one point, but I'm pretty sure that being declared "dead or worse" means you lose the legal title.
To quote Lois McMaster Bujold: "The one thing you can't trade for your heart's desire is your heart."
Now, going to the competition, killing all the others, then flipping off Chaos and walking off would be a major power move, but I suspect that would result in getting smited by all Four.
So, yeah. Very little useful information, and a bunch of deception that someone with Mathilde's Intrigue would probably be able to parse out quicker than I could. Which actually seems exactly right for a minion of the Plotter.
And here we have the first lie, and the most pervasive one- that there is no escape from the plots and plans of Chaos, that their power and ability is so great that it's impossible to truly defy them. Some of the decisions here are worse, and some are better.
Sure, they've worried, they probably worry about every wizard who achieves even a fraction Mathilde has. And yes, they can distinguish between being exposed/tempted and being ensnared - Mathilde proved it herself on the way back from Karak Dum, with Barbitus. It didn't even take more than talking, and a bit of logic. Clumsy, there.
And comparing her to Alberich is also clumsy - he was in the end stages of a murderous ritual of dedication, had already taken many steps down that path, and was clearly not redeemable.
Blah, blah, garbage, I have good taste in hats, blah. Sure, it might tickle The Plotter's fancy for the irony there, but otherwise it's back to the first lie. The response to the unknown does not need to be indecision.
And here's another probable lie, by stating a truth in a way that implies more value than is known. Sure, the time when a new Everchosen approaches, hour by hour... as it has been since the last one was killed. And actually, that Mathilde has removed more than anyone else of contenders suggests that the winnowing process is still very much in the early stages. (Assuming that's not a more blatant lie.) Still, the flattery is nice.
Meh. It's always possible Egrimm is hiding something, but at least just as possible that his ruffled feathers are actually soothed, not just as a show. I don't know enough about Drycha to say, but... well, Athel Loren. As for Alric... meh, handling him is Other Peoples' Job, and this might be a bit of misinformation along the lines of "he's really a very low-probability candidate". And Alberich was not an Elector Count*, he wasn't demanding respect for the title, and the Van Hal dynasty only usurped him in his deluded fantasies.
*Well, he was at one point, but I'm pretty sure that being declared "dead or worse" means you lose the legal title.
Who should it be given to? Ljiljana and her gods? That would also be fair. They sound like a bunch of grumpy kill-stealers.
And, yet another lie - or at least, it's a promise of power with the not-too-hidden threat that if the Four ever felt like it, they would take the world anyway. Becoming too "boring", or whatever other failure they thing qualifies, and... yeah.
Back to the first lie. Sure, the souls who willingly went to Chaos were likely considered more prized, but the idea that they let Mathilde pull Karak Vlag back... it's the usual bit. Yes, they could have done more to try to stop her, but at what cost to their other endeavors? And would it have been enough anyway? (I suspect the answers are "a lot", and "probably not".)
The lie: "And once they have you, anything they give you is still theirs."
To quote Lois McMaster Bujold: "The one thing you can't trade for your heart's desire is your heart."
Becoming the Thirteenth Everchosen is not a weapon. It is a betrayal of all of Mathilde's loyalties.
Now, going to the competition, killing all the others, then flipping off Chaos and walking off would be a major power move, but I suspect that would result in getting smited by all Four.
So, yeah. Very little useful information, and a bunch of deception that someone with Mathilde's Intrigue would probably be able to parse out quicker than I could. Which actually seems exactly right for a minion of the Plotter.
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The only possible follow-up Mathilde can think of would require a sturdier reality to perform it in, so the tech tree can be considered complete and all the theoretical research a book would require is done, and weaponization is off the table. That said, having successfully morbed and created a bird-free liminal realm would make for a better read.
You could make a pit, but then it would just be a pit and the people that fall in would just be inside of it, possibly mildly bruised from the fall.
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- Location
- Brazil
Daemon: I can say literally anything, and you will screw yourself over regardless. I love my job.
Thread:
-> Immediately proposes suicide.
-> Proposes pilgrimage of fingers, which would 100% force Mathilde into burning every single bridge she has as Ranald makes sure she depends wholly on him.
-> Wants to confess, aka suicide with more steps.
I can't even.
Thread:
-> Immediately proposes suicide.
-> Proposes pilgrimage of fingers, which would 100% force Mathilde into burning every single bridge she has as Ranald makes sure she depends wholly on him.
-> Wants to confess, aka suicide with more steps.
I can't even.
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Guile
Having a really great time right now
No no, we want to become a Necromancer.
We're not crazy.
On the other hand... we could have a Mammoth.
so, to be clear, the last two possible actions (that mathy can think up) for AV is:
morbs
and building a fence for the pocket realm.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Oh, Gazul burned it into materiality, but I think the real question is: Did the Glittering Realm even exist before Thungni got there?
(And, just as much: How much of it was made by the Ancestor himself, and how much of it was expanded upon by His descendants?)
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Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
So what you're saying is, we need to find a way to make reality more sturdy.
I suppose Runesmithing isn't quite up to the task?