Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Emperor Dieter cost the Empire... too much. Entirely too much.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
if the Waystone commands are incorrect, they just won't work. They aren't grand rituals that shake the foundations, they're minor cantrips that are essentially asking the Waystone to do something, and the guiding intelligence can intervene if you haven't disconnected it entirely - and we already know the disconnect command. It's really not the same thing as Manipulating The Spooky Energies With Your Soul, Ariel.
It's entirely possible that any supplemental knowledge could have traps, but we have plenty of other sources for that. We'd be pretty stupid to just take those at face value.
And again, if Morathi cared so much, she could have come over and broken the network at any point in the last few thousand years.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
But they said they wanted to help eliminate Dhar!
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
The gods didn't cause Magnus to happen.
Magnus started on his own, the gods just told people to listen to him.
If there had been no Magnus himself, I don't think the Empire would have survived.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Yeah. If the United States are backing your enemy, can you afford to deny all support from the Soviet Union?
He shut down the colleges for 20 years, empowered corrupt nobles, and sold a single city to some merchants. Hardly a devastating state of affairs.
We are right now IRL seeing some shithead speed-run destroy your own nation any% because he has supreme power, it's not "Great Man of History" theory to recognize the amount of influence and power someone sitting on top of the hierarchy has. Naggaroth as a polity is literally based on the belief that Malekith is the one true Phoenix king; saying that he can't control his nation despite the fact that it only exists to serve his own ends and is repeatedly willing to throw again and again more lives for his own vainglory (WRT the repeated attempts at conquering Ulthuan) is flying in the face of actual evidence.
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and im guessing franz is also "a outlier". it seems kinda suspicous that excellent emperors show up when the empire needs them...
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
We knocked him out then gave him to a Shadow Warrior.
What does that have to do with Dwarfen relations with Naggaroth?
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- Location
- Leeds
Technically we can, we've been doing it for years and the High/Dark elves are not the world super powers that the US/USSR were.
I just wanted to point out how silly that argument was. Especially since it overblew how much the Asur actually support Marienburg against us.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
The options aren't deal with them, and shun them forever. There's also betraying them first in a vast variety of new and exciting ways, ranging all the way up to having the Empire ride to Marienburg's rescue across an 'impassable' swamp after their military is helpfully gutted while Mathilde's 14ish try to heist the supporting Black Ark. Just to optimistically plan out the Cultivation path of five generations of chickens from now.
Less grandiosely, we have the Deceiver or the Night Prowler as suits our needs. Slave revolts should be trivial to set off, and an all out civil war not beyond the realm of possibility.
Granted this might be incurably optimistic on my part.
Less grandiosely, we have the Deceiver or the Night Prowler as suits our needs. Slave revolts should be trivial to set off, and an all out civil war not beyond the realm of possibility.
Chiselhands. They can't use it themselves without crippling themselves, they can't use it on their slaves without empowering their slaves in excitingly unpredictable ways. And yet it would provide such intriguing possibilities if only one oh so special and superior druchi could just make it work.
Granted this might be incurably optimistic on my part.
Excellent point, I retract all previous objections.
(they actually didn't even say that, the project wasn't even mentioned, no offer for keyphrases or anything of the sort was made, the whole idea that they would want or be able to help the Waystone project is pure speculation on our part)
This is literally standard Tzeentch gambit 9, where an obviously shady personage who may or may not wear their dark magic usage on their sleeve approaches you and straight up offers to give you that piece of ancient lost knowledge you've always wanted, in exchange for something you don't actually care about and might even do for free.
Admittedly, most people do not rate someone coming all the way from Naggaroth to mess them up, but that only shows we really are all that.
And yes, we will check that it isn't a trap. At first, it will look like we're getting away with it because that is just how these things work, but we're not winning this game against Tzeentch, not when he's playing to win and even calling in favors from Slaanesh to get the help from Morathi.
Admittedly, most people do not rate someone coming all the way from Naggaroth to mess them up, but that only shows we really are all that.
And yes, we will check that it isn't a trap. At first, it will look like we're getting away with it because that is just how these things work, but we're not winning this game against Tzeentch, not when he's playing to win and even calling in favors from Slaanesh to get the help from Morathi.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
If tomorrow Marienburg became strident Imperial Loyalists they'd continue to support them just as much, as far as I can tell.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Wait you pointed out some silliness? I thought you agreed with me?
And Marienburg supported Marienburg more than they supported us while fighting against a literal everchosen. That's quite a statement
- Location
- Great Khanate of Scotland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm amused by the Druuchi being left baffled by our chiselhands technique, and at the Colleges still being upset about dad never coming home from buying cigarettes.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Good point.
...But we decided that famously duplicitous president of the Dhar fanclub wanted to help with our Dhar elimination project!
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Tzeentch isn't really involved with the Dark Elves, canonically.
i better hope the milk run hes doing is of epic proportions.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, my thoughts;
FUCK THE DARK ELVES.
Also Harathi is the kind of person I'd love to talk to, he'd know so much! If he he's not older than the Chaos Incursion, he've grown around people that were, he'd know so much! @Boney could he be a social option?
Going back to my previous point, my thoughts are;
FUCK THE DARK ELVES.
Also Harathi is the kind of person I'd love to talk to, he'd know so much! If he he's not older than the Chaos Incursion, he've grown around people that were, he'd know so much! @Boney could he be a social option?
Going back to my previous point, my thoughts are;
- Pretty much anything we can get from the Delfs we could get from the Helfs. This is just the easier option, and I think there is a saying about that.
- Work with Delfs like this is, in my opinion, only a dozen or so steps below working with Skaven. Hell, we'd be better with Skaven, we have experience with them.
- What would Eike think? And don't say we could stop her finding out, she's a Grey Apprentice, working out what their masters are up to is practically part of their training
That's what He wants you to think.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- It/Them
Huh, new target for the Elfcation acquired?
- Location
- Leeds
I have no interest in really joining that war. The empire is just not equipped to join the pissing battle between the worlds two predominant naval powers.
I want to use the threat of us siding against them to force the Asur to make some concessions. I do not trust the DE to be involved with the Waystones however I do think there is a possibility of gainful trade.
And correctly me if I'm wrong, but three guys was still three more than the DE offered.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nnnnot quite. The Second Secret of Dhar is still using Dhar, even if it is to destroy other Dhar. It is still unambiguously a breach of Article terms:
It's been brought up a lot as a point of contention because of the way it's phrased, but it's still using Dhar and there is very strong historic opposition to it.
You know, I think this idea is worth actually putting on practice.
Pros of dealing with Druchii
++Possibility of learning Druhir, developing Druchii Diplomacy skill. This are the least objectionable gains we could get.
++They would do anything to spite Ulthuan and that can include potentially giving us Waystone information.
+Assorted knowledge, probably some juicy gossip. Possible magic knowledge.
+Fuck Marienburg.
+BOOKS.
+Luxury goods, probably.
Cons of dealing with Druchii
---It would mean interacting with incredibly morally bankrupt people, heinous in the extreme. Mathilde would need to taint herself by even pretending this is worthwhile. They are also very infamous for their backstabbery and we'd need to watch our backs.
---They would do anything to spite Ulthuan and that can include giving us faulty Waystone information to taint the project/the Vortex.
--How does it look from the outside to safely interact with such people of our own initiative? Ulthuan would flip its shit. If the Nagarythians ever find out we'd be given the stink-eye.
--Elves always think long-term: even if nothing went wrong for the next ten years, we would be possibly opening ourselves and the Empire up to future temptations, which would be an untenable risk compared to short-term gains.
-In an exchange of knowledge, we'd need to give up some secrets and knowledge too, which as a Grey Wizard feels painful. Asides from the Golds' apparition-binding technique, Mathilde has gained most of her cool forbidden-knowledge-which-is-just-short-of-illegal without needing to give up much in return. I'd much rather steal from the Druchii than learn from them.