... But maps are incredible useful, especially in the current technological "era" whf is set in. There is no easy way to make terrain maps. Armies had whole cartography Attachments just to get some shoddy maps together...
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Sure but it takes knowledge of the terrain to make a correct map (which is not something the MAP spell provides) and then it takes a good commander to take advantage of that knowledge.
Mathilde made everything look exceedingly smooth because she's simultaneously an excellent scout; great commander and superb wizard so she could use MAP to its full potential - random journeywizard with MAP assisting an average commander is certainly useful but not in the same way that Mathilde directing troops using the MAP was.
... And you don't need to be a good commander and have a good scout and good maps to use row why?
Like one of these spells enables any wizard to do some scouting and then relay exactly what they have seen by visualizing with magic... The other makes terrain passable for a short stretch.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
This would be a fairly interesting thing to try and resolve if we'd taken that "become a larger, greener Matty" vote back when we interrupted the ritual at K8P. I don't know that even Tzeentch would have a backup plan to address a rogue magister with the the power of Gork and Mork backing her. After all, what are the chances of that happening?
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The difference is in how unique capabilities of each spell are.
MAP can be substituted by good maps and a commander with good visualization skills particularly on a battlefield that's relatively flat as most Empire field battles tend to be. It is really good and really useful but it is just one layer of a sandwich.
Now RoW: if a regiment needs to cross a marsh or artillery has to be moved fast through rocky terrain or if a cavalry charge has to happen on muddy ground then the options are either RoW or bust. It'd still take a good commander to use RoW effectively - that's true even for the most straightforward spells like Penumbral Pendulum - but it adds a new capability; a RoW capable force can flat out do stuff that a force without RoW can't.
A) most of the empire is Forrest's. Not flat terrain. So row or map doesn't help there. B) row absolutely can do stuff that you couldn't without, like move troops over a marsh, or explode.
Like, if mathy could only have invented one of the two i would take map more often then not, because it's a) reliable and b) Multi-Wind castable.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Reikland: Reikwald to the north, Skrag Hills to the north, Hagercryps to the south, Grissenwald at the southern border, Marshes on the northern border, mountains and rocky terrain on the western border to the Grey Mountains, Vorbergland between the mountains and hils, being a nice area of plains. Marshes around the River Reik, particularly around Altdorf, which also includes the Bloodpine Woods and the Amber Hills.
Wissenland: A valley between the rivers Sol and Reik where most inhabitants live, incredibly rocky/hilly around the north, west, south and southeast as it approaches the Grey and Black Mountains and the Vaults.
Averland: Primarily plains and lowlands. Primary cavalry base where many horses are grazed and raised with a good environment for them. Lots of farmland, surrounded on three sides by rivers and one by mountains with a pretty wide pass as a result of volcanic activity. Has a few hills as it transitions into the other provinces.
Stirland: Primarily hilly land, with two major hill ranges in the form of the Stirhugel in the West and the Hunter Hills in the east. There are also smaller hills in the south in the Moot and one in the north around central stirland. Has a couple woods and smaller forests around the northern edges, primarily in Central and Eastern Stirland. Has lots of wetlands in Eastern Stirland (Sylvania). Turns mountaineous as it approaches the World's Edge on the south/southeast.
Ostermark: Has great plains for raising horses known as the Veldt, which is their flatest and most arable area. Otherwise, Ostermark is bordered by the World's Edge on the east, thick forests to the west/northwest/southwest in the form of the Dead Wood and Gryphon Woods, which transitions into the Shirokij in Kislev which it borders. The centre is largely dominated by hills in the form of the Bleak Moors and Eerie Downs.
Ostland: Mountaineous around the southwest as it approaches the Middle Mountains, which is where a great deal of Ostland's towns and settlements exist. Has a small connection of hills to the south around the River Talabec. Primarily forest until it transitions into plains which could perhaps be described as a Steppe between the border of Nordland to Kislev, which then transitions into the rocky coastline of the Sea of Claws.
Nordland: Southeast borders the Middle Mountains and is therefore mountaineous. Has lots of hills, although many of them are actually controlled by Laurelorn. 2/3rds Laurelorn forest. A good portion of the eastern border is part of the Forest of Shadows. What's left is largely hilly with some flat spots until it hits the coastline. Marshes exist between Nordland and Mddenland, although it would be more accurate to say between Laurelorn and Middenland.
Middenland: Marshes to the north, rocky/mountaineous around the northeast as it transitions into the Middle Mountains. Both the southeast and southwest is hilly with the Howling Hills and Midden Moors, which also happens to be pretty marshy, respectively. A great portion of it is forested, split between Drakwald and Laurelorn.
Hochland: Very hilly and mountaineous around the north, forested for the rest of it, and a good portion of the centre-east is dominated by the Weiss Hills. Flattest portion is around the rivers bordering the province.
Talabecland: Three giant hilly portions in the centre from left to right with the Barren, Farlic and Kolsa Hills. Most of the rest, including all of Talabecland's borders leading to the rivers, is the Great Forest. Some marshland exists here.
My geography primer for the Empire, outlining broad strokes of what it looks like.
I am very late to the party, so apologies if I'm retreading old ground - I've only very breifly skimmed the twenty something pages since the update.
First of all, I wanna give a shoutout to @LightLan for bringing up Khsar (among other Gods, admittedly) when the mystery of Dum came up, and @Nerdasaurus Rex for doing the same more recently. It's kind of amazing that anyone made the connection because even now that we've been told the solution it's hard for me to fully comperhend the answer.
So, Khsar. What the fuck?
First of all, I wanna give a shoutout to @LightLan for bringing up Khsar (among other Gods, admittedly) when the mystery of Dum came up, and @Nerdasaurus Rex for doing the same more recently. It's kind of amazing that anyone made the connection because even now that we've been told the solution it's hard for me to fully comperhend the answer.
So, Khsar. What the fuck?
I don't have anything too insightful to say on this whole thing but something did catch my eye here. Namely, the fact that it is really hard to track down this God through the ages. Khsar to Kavzar is barely recognaizable, and Khsar is apparently not the original name ("one of the names we remembered was reshaped into Khsar), and then it finally ends up as Morghur because Beastmen have terrible pronunciation. Khsar also has no consistency in the species of His followers: first dwarves, then humans, then dwarves and humans and finally beastmen in desperation. This disregard for the species of His followers may or may not be unusual - we do suspect that at least some human Gods are also elf Gods. But the most confusing in my opinion is that His domain seems to change quite drastically:
It started as "the teacher and warden of the Dawi". Then it was the God of a nomadic people and of the desert in general, then "city-father", and finally a God of the Beastmen which seems as different from a God of a city as you can get. We often talk about Gods are being Their domains, an incranation of ideas in the warp, but Khsar doesn't seem to fit this mold at all. It could be that we are just completely wrong about the nature of the Gods, or that we don't understand His domains well enough to really follow the connecting thread between all of those seemingly very different Gods, but I also wonder if perhaps He is just different from other Gods. We've speculated that He is either an Old One or more likely a creation of an Old One, and that's not true for all Gods (I think).
Deathfang told us that Rhya isn't Isha, and he did so in a way that draws a connection between Rhya and Athel Loren. Could it be that Morghur is drawn to Athel Loren because of Rhya? Might it even be the case that Ariel is an avatar of Rhya? We don't know much about Rhya's true nature other then the fact that she is not an elf God, but I can't help but notice that the Earth Mother seems like a decent candidate for a being that resembles Khsar, a teacher (and warden?) of a group of servants of the Old Ones, this time humans instead of Dawi. If Rhya is the Earth Mother, and Rhya is connected to Athel Loren, maybe that gives us a connection to Morghur.
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Only way I see ROW codifying being really worth it is if we also donate our Staff of Mistery.
Maybe if we craft a dryad staff?
Maybe if we craft a dryad staff?
- Location
- Earth
How so? The Staff is still only usable by one person, and the point of codifying is so more people can use the spell. It's not like RoW is especially risky compared to other BM. Battle Wizards have different risk tolerances, traits, etc, so they'd find use out of the spell even without the Staff of Mistery cheat.
MAP is a general utility tool. We saw that this update when Tochter used it as a whiteboard. I'm pretty sure that 100 years from now it will be Mathilde's magic thing that is most familar to wizards. It's basically an instant, free-form visualisation tool. It's amazing for teachers, but it's also super useful if you're brainstorming, either alone or in a group.
I don't know if it's what Mathilde will be most known for, because there's quite the stiff competition between death tower, pulling out Vlag, MORBS, and whatever happens with the waystones. On the other hand, it's probably only second to aetheric armor in it's usefulness at the lesser magic level, more useful if you don't go out much, and I imagine also a pretty good training tool.
- Location
- Earth
Mathilde will be most known for NOT inventing Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Polysevirric Projection.
Since that was invented by L.M. Olenus.
Students will hate her for centuries to come for that exam question.
I mean, ROW's most important uses can often be planned in advance. For example if a Grey battle wizard that knows ROW is assigned to an army with a large cavalry contingent that expects to be operating in bad terrain or an army that has to go somewhere fast without great roads. In those situations, said wizard could just borrow the staff.
Also, the staff could probably help with wizards that want to learn the spell at low risk. It's pretty clear to me that ROW is much more useful if you have access (even limited in time) to the staff.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Religious
Mathilde's greatest strength has always been her Piety - encouraging that trait in her apprentice seems appropriate, while also serving to underline that Eike will never be the same person as Mathilde and shouldn't try; she's on a Shallyan path while Mathilde has lived a Ranaldan one, both methods and results will be different.
Mathilde's greatest strength has always been her Piety - encouraging that trait in her apprentice seems appropriate, while also serving to underline that Eike will never be the same person as Mathilde and shouldn't try; she's on a Shallyan path while Mathilde has lived a Ranaldan one, both methods and results will be different.
Is Eike necessarily on a Shallyan path, I feel like she's still in her formative years and could be converted to the glory of Ranald, especially if we share our faith with her.
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- Location
- Canada
I think you might be misinterpreting something Rex
Brettonia's offer is not an AND statement, it's an OR
Either we can help Carcassone with some of the stuff on their plate, in which case they have less shit to deal with and can afford to spend effort elsewhere, like say a multinational research project of uncertain worth
Or the project can start showing some tempting results, in which case they'll be more willing to spend the resources contributing in hopes of getting in on the rewards
Doing both is the best way to make friends and garner gratitude of course, people respond most generously to generosity
But it is entirely viable to decide to focus on generating results in the project itself, and then use those results to try to attract more support rather than splitting our attention in different directions trying to scratch backs for favors
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While you are correct, I invoke the technicality that the post I quoted (and also my post) used MAP instead of MAPP, which is what she created, so I am in fact technically correct. And that's the important thing.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Fie on such lack of ambition.
Codify Rite of Way.
Create a Battle Altar of Rite of Way.
Present Morbs to power Battle Altar of Rite of Way.
Publish Look at this Snakejuice and What I Did With It.
Gigaflex
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
I'm very amused by the fact that a battle altar of RoW is basically just an absurdly fancy ATV.
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm on mobile so I can't look up quotes but even if the thread as a whole voted to loan our staff to help Battle Wizards to learn the codified version of RoW wouldn't that action be a waste of time since individual staves are for one person only?
We could study the bottom half of a magic being and see if it would provide us with some high quality staff material. That we can sell and use one to build for Eike. But control seems to be more important than power with rite of way and we were told that the wood should be good for control foci.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Honestly? They didn't. People imagine maps as always being available to military planners regardless of the era, but it's really a very modern approach to warfare. It took until the Prussians to make it standard. In the Early Modern that Warhammer approximates, people still made do with local guides to get armies where they needed to go, between major landmarks and coastlines. Nobody knew what the terrain looked like until they got there.
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I was mostly referencing the Napoleonic wars with that bit. Where the french did have attachments of staff for getting rough maps together for the general.