I think our sacrifice of signature forging definitely forbids even the signatures of enemy gods. I was wondering if it included non-divine energies, and then I realised my only example of such was actually still divine.
I don't want to start this debate again, because it's still a bit of a sore spot, and the last time people were unhappy. So I will try to throw as litte interpretation in here as I can, and this will be my last post on this topic in this chain.
The text of the updates is very light on restrictions, and explicit directions.
The first update has this to say:
The faith choice says this:
Mathilde also thinks taking further signatures "would be a declaration of war against the secrecy of the Gods and the Cults".
Before this, Ranald has shown he wants his privacy, so not doing it to him again is very strongly implied by the Faith action. We can see this as a hard no. It's morally sketch to do to allied gods, and I personally think we shouldn't on those grounds, even to Sigmar. Ranald being a god of thieves makes it unclear whether he would be ok with Mathilde doing it anyway. I will not comment on this further.
Doing it to opposing gods is ok morally. Chaos, Mork/Gork, the Horned Rat, they don't get protection. The only concern is that the friendly gods learn of this capability, and take it badly. The likelyhood and reaction can be debated, but this is not the place for it.
Now, the following update:
First, Mathilde's stated reason to not follow up on this is that she's too busy
And also
That no shards are left behind is indicator that Ranald does not want any crystals of himself around. Whether that extends to other gods is another matter, but I will not debate it here.
But that's mostly it. At this point the update moves to the daughters.
There is one final line that's potentially relevant towards the end:
Does this mean we sacrificed and right to ever follow up on this, in all ways? You could argue that, and I think that's where the impression of a prohibition comes from (if there's WOG, please point it out to me. But I don't think so, because for something that important, Boney would probably have made a note in the update if he gave WOG later).
From the fact that I'm making this post, you can probably tell I'm not convinced, and have a different interpretation. For the sake of avoiding the "I'm not going to argue, but let me just list the arguments of my position", I will not espouse my position further.
Personally, I think the ambiguity is deliberate. Boney prefers if the players have to make their own decision on what something means (which doesn't mean there's not correct answer, just that he often doesn't tell, and sometimes the correct answer gets determined when it becomes relevant). You even have this bit:
The exact meaning is also up for debate, but it is suggestive.
Also, to be clear: I'm not arguing we should take up signature stealing, I just don't want there to be an impression that things were said that really weren't. As Mathilde said, she's stretched too thin. I think we should learn to controll the marks, and for the megalomaniac long term plans, I'm more in favor of Mathilde becoming the world's least hidden ulgu dragon, rather than futzing around with divinity.
Boney has already explained this - for
identification use, the ability to identify a illegitimate deity necessarily involves the ability to identify a legitimate deity disguised as something else.
Which is crucial when you are a legitimate deity servicing a benign marginalized community, acting on behalf of another legitimate deity,
related to another legitimate deity, related to an
illegitimate deity or occupying concept space in a malign community which might normally go to an illegitimate deity.
In which case Ranald has:
-Haletha servicing not-very-legal marginalized communities.
-Potentially taking action on behalf of Loec and vice versa.
-Ties to Haletha which may hurt her cult if publicly associated with his.
-
Any deity may or may not be rebelling facets of Chaos or proscribed deities, and calling attention to this would serve Chaos more than Order.
-Ranald specifically services criminals, displacing worship of nastier patrons like Khaine or Gunndred.
So...basically kiboshed on using it for identification at all.
Theres no specific word on other applications of trapped Divine Power, but then its not like we have other applications right now.
I've only read the core book, which is light on details when it comes to specifics regarding Religion, so I'm not sure if I'm fully qualified to answer. That being said, 4E Taal doesn't give me much of a toxic vibe. He's... occupied with his trade (being hunting), and that makes him sort of boring, but aside from his followers wanting everything to revolve around him (which is not unique to him considering Sigmarites and Ulricans do the same), I don't see it.
I'm also not sure if 4E is implying that Taal and Rhya aren't all that official:
"Though typically depicted as the wife of Taal, myths connect her to many gods, and she has children from many of those relationships."
then there's "Although she is not openly worshipped in the towns and cities – townsfolk often turning to Shallya in her stead – her name is frequently tied with Taal's, so she is still well known amongst such people.
Because the cult has no great temples and protects no holy books or relics of significance, many scholars believe her worship to be declining, and possibly already dead. Her many cultists do nothing to contradict such talk."
This is directly addressing certain aspects of Rhya that were present in 2E. I made a huge post about it some time ago showing every instance of the Cult of Rhya being seen as "lesser" to Taal within 2E, and 4E seems to be a course correction where they're not trying to contradict the previous lore, they're attempting to add dimension to it. Whether it succeeded or not is up for interpretation.
I'm also not sure if Rhya is really a "modern-positive" depiction or if she's just a representation of paganism. I am not an expert on the subject by any means, but I have a vague recollection of non-standard religions being far more accepting and open-minded before they were, y'know, subsumed by certain groups.
I think the paganism made a convenient way to perform necessary pushback.
Earthmother deities, by the extended crude metaphor, basically get plowed by everyone to begin with, but the specific counter to Slaaneshi excess pretty much has to be pushback on the Sex = Slaanesh idea.
This is incorrect.
Now, does that mean Eike will be doing serious intellectual work on our AV research actions? No. But people have already raised the Lustrian papers research action as one that it seems likely Eike will be able to meaningfully help with, for example. She's not an equal partner by any means, but she will still be very much a partner.
(...apologies to the anti-Apprenticeship lobby for speaking about this as a done deal, but there hasn't been a vote in pages and Mathilde taking Eike on currently has about 82% of the vote, so I think I commit no great hubris.)
She's still an apprentice starting the second half (or was it second third?) of her magical education.
She can propably do some practical labwork, or kinda understand what we are doing if we guide her through it, but I really don't think she can meaningfully contribute at this point.
She would barely know how solid strands of Wind are supposed to act, nevermind know and be able to explain why they act abnormally here.
Like, if people are working on an IRL research-project, how often do they involve school kids in any meaningful capacity?
You usually stick to students at least, and not first-Semesters either, I think?
I can see a few useful contributions:
-She has a different form of Windsight. Intuitive or Emotive Windsight is less prone to being blinded, even if her Windsight isn't as precise as Mathilde's. Boney-standard, the more points of view on a phenomenon, the better.
-Dictation. Classic apprentice work, instead of having to write it all down yourself from memory AFTER the experiment, you can focus on the experiment and dictate the notes as you go.
-Gopher. Need a book? Keep writing, send the apprentice as a runner. Need a second bucket of AV? Keep monitoring the process, send the apprentice as a runner. Need a lunch break? Send the apprentice for an early lunch and have her takeout some Halfling pie while you keep working. Need a sounding board? Apprentices are educated in the basics but without your experiences, they will give very different first impressions.
Net result - Your work just smooths out. Apprentice learns a few things. Apprentice also has legs that can kick a warboss to death after a few years of running up and down a mountain on tasks.
