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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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pucflek said:
Sure. But its still doubtful Mathilde is the first being in five millenia that noticed and that this information, directly related to propagation of chaos across entire planet, would not be leaked already.
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Perhaps someone else out there knows, but it's not just about if something is leaked, but how loudly it's done so. There are plenty of scandals IRL that caused an uproar when the public was first made aware of them, that are still out there and no longer causing issues because it's left the public consciousness despite nothing being done about them.

Some troublemaker randomly shouting "Waystones use Dhar!" out of the blue isn't going to get that much traction, but them going "Waystones use Dhar, and that research project leader over knows it and wants to build more of those dark magic-makers, and hey, you could use this to take the accursed thing get more political brownie points" when said project is in its infancy and quite politically vulnerable would cause significantly more damage.
 
Sa'kage said:
If we go through the proper protocols, we can point to them and go "We found out about the Dhar, and alereted everyone who needed to know, the most loyal and trustworthy of the mages to this at once", so there are checks and balances against Matilda going full dark lady mode over here, with Dhar waystones. While both would cause grumling amonst the Sigmar people, i think the one where we try to hide it, from our own members, is by far the more suspicious one
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As I already pointed out we have the highes authorty of Chaos combat from the Light Collage on the very project. That is good enough. Widening the circle just to widen to circle is wrong move at this point. We are not giving more people any chance to review our project even with Colleage Dispension. Infact that would make people grumble even more as they learn we are working on Dhar but they are not allowed to come in and check themselves. Better to just inform people as need to know basis.

I mean Imperial dispension is Ironclad. Collage ones gives people time to object before it goes to effect.
 
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Dragomas had to be convinced to wear pants. I am reasonably certain that he's not going to be offended if we skip protocol in the name of information security, especially if we give him less bureaucratic work in doing so.
 
"Torches away, please. As a noted evil magic expert, I am using the dark magic to destroy the dark magic. I was keeping it secret because people wouldn't understand, to say nothing of that meddling old fool of a light wizard.

The dedications to the goddess of dark magic don't even do anything, you know how zealous types can get. Actually, she might be a bit misunderstood-

Dhar corruption? I promise I'm immune. Really, I'm not some sort of megalomaniac, I'm trying to save the world here."

Struggling between College and Imperial. I don't think either are bad ideas, but from the outside the whole situation is way too close to a start of darkness backstory for comfort. Reputation is going to do work for sure. It might help if we used the artifact of the thief god to mind-control more people into trusting us.

I think this vote comes down to my natural inclination to be a stick in the mud.

[X] College Dispensation
 
ReImagined said:
Dragomas had to be convinced to wear pants. I am reasonably certain that he's not going to be offended if we skip protocol in the name of information security, especially if we give him less bureaucratic work in doing so.
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Also a good point someone made earlier. He literally went to Cathay as a journeyman and got a trade agreement (i think that was it ) without informing anyone. Going over the proper authority is part of his legacy, kinda.

Edit: merging.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
He'd get a note informing him of the decision Lutipold and Dragomas have made. He doesn't get to veto this, or even give his opinion unless Dragomas specifically asks for it.
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I think he can intervene on behalf of his wizards. So we might lose Elrisse and egrimm.
 
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Tobtorp said:
Also a good point someone made earlier. He literally went to Cathay as a journeyman and got a trade agreement (i think that was it ) without informing anyone. Going over the proper authority is part of his legacy, kinda.
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Well, it's not like he was in a position to report back to his superiors for instructions.

Tobtorp said:
I think he can intervene on behalf of his wizards. So we might lose Elrisse and egrimm.
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And he'd loose access to all of the benefits of the Waystone project, including the glory and prestige.
 
Tobtorp said:
He's losing his seat as patriarch right now. I doubt he would care too much about a deal he didn't make and has no stackes in.
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Except the rest of the Order probably would. Mira has committed two Lords Magister to this endeavour, if Alric undoes all of that and they have nothing to show for it whilst the Jades are developing new magics based on Eonir teachings, then it's going to look very bad for him. He would have cost the Lights the ability to learn and develop new magic, which is a pretty big failing for a Patriarch.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Well, it's not like he was in a position to report back to his superiors for instructions.



And he'd loose access to all of the benefits of the Waystone project, including the glory and prestige.
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He is not getting any prestige, this was arranged by Myra, he might want to counter it out of sheer spite.

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Except the rest of the Order probably would. Mira has committed two Lords Magister to this endeavour, if Alric undoes all of that and they have nothing to show for it whilst the Jades are developing new magics based on Eonir teachings, then it's going to look very bad for him. He would have cost the Lights the ability to learn and develop new magic, which is a pretty big failing for a Patriarch.
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But he would save them from the madness of Dhar exposure, he can sell it to any cautious types well enough I think, and the political ones would just see it as a jab at Mira
 
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DragonParadox said:
He is not getting any prestige, this was arranged by Myra, he might want to counter it out of sheer spite.
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Which would make him go against the Dwarfs, Ulricans, Several collages, and the Elves. Which would be utterly against his goal of re-securing his seat, as he'd be wasting a ton of political capital in order to stop a project that is benefical to the empire(Of which he is presumely loyal to). Alric if he's acting in a sensible manner, would have no reason to counter or try and stop the waystone project
 
StormySky said:
Perhaps someone else out there knows, but it's not just about if something is leaked, but how loudly it's done so. There are plenty of scandals IRL that caused an uproar when the public was first made aware of them, that are still out there and no longer causing issues because it's left the public consciousness despite nothing being done about them.
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Yeah but thats where the comparison stumbles. Johanns dispensation was so fucking secret Mathilde only learned he was actually a magister, not even what he was researching, from a higher up. Mathilde sending a dispensation through college is secure. You can tie yourself in knots but ultimately the question is not "who discovers what" but "who takes umbrage over what" in my honest opinion. And that way, the more official, the better.
Tobtorp said:
Alric will get a note about it and has still the authority to reject it i think.
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Alric is not anti empire,and thus most likely not- anti waystone. He also might not ever learn of it. People acting as if the dispensation means it will be widespread. IT doesn't have to be.
 
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At this point of the project we have nothing to show but a, admittedly impressive, list of names and that you need dhar. Torpedoing the project right now would be easy because most wouldn't have lost more then a few months and you can still say that the entire project wouldn't have amounted to anything anyway.

So yes, i can see alric throwing sticks into the spokes just out of spite.
 
My question is, why would Alric need to hear about the request to try to pull back Elrisse and Egrimm if that was something he wanted to do?

If he wanted to do that, he's going to try to do that, how would Imperial Dispensation stop him? His* problems with Mathilde would already be a thing, he wouldn't need to hear about the dispensation to form an opinion on the project.

*largely theoretical at this point, but still
 
pucflek said:
Yeah but thats where the comparison stumbles. Johanns dispensation was so fucking secret Mathilde only learned he was actually a magister, not even what he was researching, from a higher up. Mathilde sending a dispensation through college is secure. You can tie yourself in knots but ultimately the question is not "who discovers what" but "who takes umbrage over what" in my honest opinion. And that way, the more official, the better.
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The thing is, Mathilde was a freshly graduated Magister at the time, so how would she know about Johann's whole thing? And studying Skaven tech wasn't as politically exposed as the Waystone Project, since it only needed Johann and a few of his friends who would keep their mouths shut to run. Nobody objected because not a lot of people needed to know and those who did know didn't really have anything against it.

The Waystone Project, on the other hand, has a lot of people from different groups, and a lot of those groups have their own internal politics that we've chosen one side of by bringing those people into the Project. That means their opponents are likely going to try and bring us down for political power plays, regardless of what the Waystone network eventually failing entirely means for everyone.
 
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Mopman43 said:
My question is, why would Alric need to hear about the request to try to pull back Elrisse and Egrimm if that was something he wanted to do?

If he wanted to do that, he's going to try to do that, how would Imperial Dispensation stop him? His* problems with Mathilde would already be a thing, he wouldn't need to hear about the dispensation to form an opinion on the project.

*largely theoretical at this point, but still
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To be fair, it would give him a plausible reason for pulling them off it, rather than looking liek a petty power play.
 
Mopman43 said:
My question is, why would Alric need to hear about the request to try to pull back Elrisse and Egrimm if that was something he wanted to do?

If he wanted to do that, he's going to try to do that, how would Imperial Dispensation stop him? His* problems with Mathilde would already be a thing, he wouldn't need to hear about the dispensation to form an opinion on the project.

*largely theoretical at this point, but still
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This gives him a good excuse to pull them, I don't want them Dhar poisoned, at worst he would look over-cautious and I do not think Thorek will be protesting outside his office with the Al Ulric over this.
 
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