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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Rafin said:
@Boney Did Max and Johann sit in on this meeting?
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No, because the Gold Order isn't formally involved in the project. If something is said that the Gold Order would really like to know then it'd put them in a tricky spot.

Rafin said:
Also, was there any kind of pre-meeting purely among College Wizards? Mathilde has told multiple of them that part of all this is a bluff that Humans know more than they actually do. And the best way to do that involves first carrying together all the knowledge that's actually there. Especially the knowledge that the Colleges in question are willing to share among each other, bit not quite yet with foreign polities.
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No, Mathilde is trying to avoid creating any us-versus-them thinking. She wants it to be that this isn't the four factions of the Colleges, the Elves, Kislev, and Thorek, this is a ten different organizations meeting and cooperating as equals. Any advantage that might be garnered by getting everyone on the same page would be outweighed by any impression that might give of the Empire ganging up on everyone else.

Rafin said:
Is it possible to choose "Ignorance" for now and then include one or more Magisters in the conspiracy on a case by case basis at a later date?
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Yes.

Rafin said:
What stops us from directly going to Dragomas and asking him in person on the down low?
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Because that's the worst of both worlds. You skip proper procedure but you also go to the person that's most beholden to them.

Rafin said:
And conversely, how does the Emperor knowing stop the four Patriarchs from needing to be informed enough to be able to protect their charges?
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Dragomas has proper procedures he has to follow, the Emperor doesn't.
 
Reading Alric would be a phenomenal pain in the ass and probably piss off the people who hooked us up with Egrimm and Elrisse. Plus just annoying to deal with in a team leading and bureaucratic sense.
 
IronFist said:
And the map is also inaccurate, considering the technology it was drawn with.

But for those of us that don't have the Locations of Bretonnian cities and invisible islands memorised, it's sufficiently plausible enough.
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You do realize that's more of an endorsement to your theory that I and at least another person also proposed, right?

Since instead of glancingly passing through the southernmost edge of the isle the line would cross it somewhat closer to the middle.
 
Tasoli said:
You know I wonder, does High Magic have a seed of Dhar at its core? Is that the secret of it?
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I doubt it. Dhar has a pretty visible effect on the mind of those using it, and demand the mindset of a megalomaniac psychopath. That's doesn't really correspond to the personality of the average Slaan or archmage.

Also, Dhar attracts other Winds and makes them stick to itself then corrupt them.

Finally, High Magic is explicitly described as using all the Winds together without creating Dhar in all the sources we have.
 
Welp I guess the law is the law time to move onto a new project. Using dhar in this manner is a clear breach of the articles that cannot be set aside as merely an accidental consequence.
 
Boney said:
"The Karaz Ankor has one. Laurelorn has one. Kislev, we just learned, has one. Athel Loren, I deeply suspect, has one. We won't ask anyone to give up the secrets of what they're doing or how they're doing it, but they do need to be considered and anyone feeling like sharing those secrets would be very welcome to do so. Are there any others we should be considering?"

"Nehekhara," Elrisse says, "made of obelisks and pyramids, and the Mortis River itself. Walled off by border forts from Ka-Sabar to Zandri, across the southern border of the Badlands, and from Lahmia to Lybaras to Rasetra."

You nod as you take notes. "Presumably Araby has one too," you say, "though I don't know whether I'd call that a separate network - it would connect to Ulthuan and work the same way as that of the Old World."
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Cathay, presumably. Not just because it's a fair assumption to make, but also because Deathfang conspiciously once mentioned the Dragons of Ulthuan heading off to help the Great Bastion of Cathay with some Chaos invasion at some point or another. It's possible that was just part of some alliance or favor between Dragons; it's also possible it was because of Waystone stuff. If so, it must be some of the oldest Waystones to exist, ones made by the Old Ones and kept intact by the Dragons.

The Chaos Dwarfs might have Waystones too. Drawing from the north.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Welp I guess the law is the law time to move onto a new project. Using dhar in this manner is a clear breach of the articles that cannot be set aside as merely an accidental consequence.
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The law is only worth as much as the state that made it, this is about saving the world. I'll be honest, it would not be beyond the pale for me to take apart the Empire and all its works to get the project off the ground, though I doubt we would have to go that far.
 
I honestly think we should go through proper College channels.

Collegiate wizards are the one group most likely to understand how important Waystones are - if the Golds got dispensation for poking around Skaven tech, then in comparison looking at Waystones should be a shoo-in.

This does give Alric a chance to stick his oar in, but to be frank - if we go over Alric and Dragomas's head to the Emperor and get dispensation that way, Alric's still going to hear about it afterwards - and indeed may have additional fuel to tarnish our rep with because we sidestepped proper channels.

Leaning on Heidi to get permission to study Dhar-adjacent things also puts additional scrutiny on that connection of ours, which I feel is unwise between Heidi's secret and Mandred's magical potential.

If we go through the Colleges then at least Alric's issues will be aimed at us, instead of at Heidi.
 
DragonParadox said:
The law is only worth as much as the state that made it, this is about saving the world. I'll be honest, it would not be beyond the pale for me to take apart the Empire and all its works to get the project off the ground, though I doubt we would have to go that far.
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If you take apart the Empire and all it's works you'll certainly have a hell of a time keeping your Waystones safe from all the stuff those works were there to fight against.
 
So this is annoying.
Emperor would be an ideal card to play but…
Heidi and Mannfred are both in with magic, and that's already a black mark.
To do an Article 7 on this via Emperor on a project that involves Dhar and Waystones…
Yikes. Especially given we'll have elves making new Waystones with a suspicious looking Elven Goddess…
I feel like we might need to seriously think about how we pitch the fruits of this to the Empire going forward. Because right now I feel like Chaos could possibly use this to scuttle the Waystones with little more then whispers in the right ears.
 
wildwill said:
The article exists for a reason, so I think it may be wise to include the patriarchs in the process.
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The articles exist because Teclis thought of humans as children and Magnus trusted Teclis, if you are going to trust Teclis unreservedly then you should probably vote not to mess with it since he would not want us poking waystones.

Mopman43 said:
If you take apart the Empire and all it's works you'll certainly have a hell of a time keeping your Waystones safe from all the stuff those works were there to fight against.
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Hardly, only the most rabid of Sigmarite supremacists think it is the natural state of humans to serve the Empire. Other states could follow it.
 
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Mopman43 said:
Definitely hoping we can get an action at some point to have Mathilde and Johann map out the major nodes of the Empire.

Be good to confirm if it's Helmgart that's sending it over the Grey Mountains, for example.
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The Amber College already has a map of remote waystones, which would probably reveal all the nodes anyway.

Tobtorp said:
Ok so going by the reactions of the grey lord he knows Albion is a thing. I don't know how he knows that but he knows. Now how do we get him to tell us...
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Unfortunately we'll just have to drop it, as we don't use OOC information in this quest.

Redshirt Army said:
I honestly think we should go through proper College channels.

Collegiate wizards are the one group most likely to understand how important Waystones are - if the Golds got dispensation for poking around Skaven tech, then in comparison looking at Waystones should be a shoo-in.

This does give Alric a chance to stick his oar in, but to be frank - if we go over Alric and Dragomas's head to the Emperor and get dispensation that way, Alric's still going to hear about it afterwards - and indeed may have additional fuel to tarnish our rep with because we sidestepped proper channels.

Leaning on Heidi to get permission to study Dhar-adjacent things also puts additional scrutiny on that connection of ours, which I feel is unwise between Heidi's secret and Mandred's magical potential.

If we go through the Colleges then at least Alric's issues will be aimed at us, instead of at Heidi.
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Why would Alric hear about it afterwards? The only people who need to know are the Emperor, Dragomas and the wizards on-site. It would be very strange for an option to explicitly cite spreading the information around as a drawback, and then have another option also do so without warning.

I definitely think that the hyper-Ghur-aligned Supreme Patriarch will be fine with stretching "proper procedure" for practical purposes.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
The Amber College already has a map of tbe remote waystones, which would probably reveal all the nodes anyway.
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They said they know where most of them are, I'm doubtful they have a detailed map. Especially with all the leyline connections.

Mostly because that doesn't feel like their thing.

DragonParadox said:
Hardly, only the most rabid of Sigmarite supremacists think it is the natural state of humans to serve the Empire. Other states could follow it.
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Because when you're taking the action that would piss Chaos off the most, that's definitely the time to devastate your defenses and armies with civil turmoil.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Why would Alric hear about it afterwards? The only people who need to know are the Emperor, Dragomas and the wizards on-site. It would be very strange for an option to explicitly cite spreading the information around as a drawback, and then have another option also do so without warning.
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...Because he's the Patriarch of the Light Order, which is involved in the project? It would be like expecting Feldmann not to know what Johann was up to with the Skaven-tech.

What, is Elrisse going to reply to him with "it's classified" if he asks for an update on the project?
 
in hindsight, it's probably a really good thing that we have house Tindomiel for the construction.

Depending on how important that mechanism is, we might have had big trouble with finding enchanters both good and discreet enough to do that part without touching the Dhar.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Why would Alric hear about it afterwards? The only people who need to know are the Emperor, Dragomas and the wizards on-site. It would be very strange for an option to explicitly cite spreading the information around as a drawback, and then have another option also do so without warning.
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I assume the wizards on-site would report to their superiors, and Alric is still nominally the Magister Patriarch.
 
Redshirt Army said:
...Because he's the Patriarch of the Light Order, which is involved in the project? It would be like expecting Feldmann not to know what Johann is up to with the Skaven-tech.
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Yeah because Johann got dispensation from Feldmann. If we go to the emperor we don't need to tell anyone shit. As in we will have a pie e of paper we can save in front of anyone nose that wants to shut the project because of the dhar.
 
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