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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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TreP said:
How anyone will know though? The whole point going straight to the Emperor is that no one will be needed to report anything.
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It won't actually be hidden. If someone wants to dig into our work, they'll be able to see that we're studying Dhar, and that we got permission directly from the Emperor to do it instead of using proper channels.

They'd have to actually dig instead of getting a nice letter straight to their office informing them, but when it comes to someone like Starke I could see them both doing the digging and being unhappy that we bypassed Grey Order internal review.

Similarly, Elrisse fulfills a role analogous to Starkes for the Light Order, meaning it will be fully up to her own discretion whether she decides to bring this interesting tidbit to the Light Patriarch's attention.
 
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Retrueno said:
The difference I think, it's that they will know after we've done it and have an understanding of it (and they can do nothing to interfere with the WP cause it'll be done)
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I think the idea that we can hide that Dhar is a part of this forever, is a tad impossible. Matilda spotted it first, but people will find out as well, and i don't think Matilda can hide it forever.

And i think then, the fact we weren't willing to go through the proper channels, but instead tried to hide it, will reflect poerly on us. Shows that we aren't fully trusting of our fellow mages, or worse, that we wanted to hide something that would look bad for us
 
Redshirt Army said:
It won't actually be hidden. If someone wants to dig into our work, they'll be able to see that we're studying Dhar, and that we got permission directly from the Emperor to do it instead of using proper channels.

They'd have to actually dig instead of getting a nice letter straight to their office informing them, but when it comes to someone like Starke I could see them both doing the digging and being unhappy that we bypassed Grey Order internal review.

Similarly, Elrisse fulfills a role analogous to Starkes for the Light Order, meaning it will be fully up to her own discretion whether she decides to bring this interesting tidbit to the Patriarch's attention.
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How do you dig into researching Waystones without having an assembled team of researchers of different magical traditions? Or do you mean dig into our research notes or something like that?

I doubt Elrisse will do anything if we have Emperor's blessing to keep it secret. Not until the end of project, when we will document all information either way.

Sa'kage said:
I think the idea that we can hide that Dhar is a part of this forever, is a tad impossible. Matilda spotted it first, but people will find out as well, and i don't think Matilda can hide it forever.
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No one's hiding the fact that Waystones draw Dhar as well as other winds. We are hiding the fact that Waystones can create Dhar, as well as that College mages have to research it in order to recreate Waystones.
Also, there are not that many Mages who can see and interact with Winds same as Mathilde do. One cannot just explore Waystones on their own, else the whole Project would be unneeded.
 
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We're looking for permission to break the most important and inviolate article, and the one that is the main barrier between the colleges and an angry mob lead by a witchhunter. Because of both our reputation and the importance of the project, we are pretty much guaranteed to have it either way—but I'd rather have all the proper paperwork to fully authenticate it, than have it given to us in a backroom deal with the Emperor, especially when there are both questions about our relationship with the Empress, and her son is soon to join the Colleges as an apprentice.

Additionally, I just feel it shows a lack of respect towards both the traditions of the colleges and our Patriarch and his peers. If we can't trust them with the knowledge that we have permission to break Article 7, then who can we trust?

Algard and Feldmann won't object to it—both are practical people, and Feldmann gave Johann dispensation to study technosorcery. Paranoth might not even find out about it for ages because he wanders so much (and again, he's a pretty practical person—perhaps a touch too practical, if you ask me). And Alric is pretty much of no concern. He can't get involved without asking Mathilde permission to join (and she has the right to turn him down), and if he recalls his two wizards then he is losing the glory and prestige of having his Order involved in the project.
 
@Boney To clarify, when Mathilde says a College dispensation would involve drawing "a lot of unwanted attention", who else is she referring to besides Alric that has a reasonable chance of potentially causing trouble?
 
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Mopman43 said:
Cython's response to a million Greenskins marching on K8P was "That sounds like a you problem".

I don't think that would convince them.
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DragonParadox said:
Remember when we tried to get him to help us against the orcs on the reasoning that they would be a threat to him.... yeah didn't work. Odds are this would not either because what most humans consider survivable levels of magic and what he considers survivable are not the same.
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You seem to have your dragons confused here. Cython is the one that mutilated their soul to attune to a wind rather than cling to a probably doomed dream that would likely only see them eaten by something in their sleep.

Deathfang might very well respond with 'Fuck do I care, I'm out bitches'. Cython kind of needs the planet to stay stableish. A mere million orc Waaagh is a fleeting, transitory problem that if all else failed they could casually fly away from. The fact that in the last couple centuries the Chaos Wastes moved a great deal closer is a much more concerning prospect.
 
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StormySky said:
@Boney To clarify, when Mathilde says a College dispensation would involve drawing "a lot of unwanted attention", who else is she referring to besides Alric that has a reasonable chance of potentially causing trouble?
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Well, it's the version that tells the most people and generates the most paperwork, so anyone with a good enough spy system or connections. Let's see, the Cults, Chaos probably, the Lahmians I'd expect, Ulthuan has a better chance this way, and sundry foreign powers (Marienburg, Bretonnia, the Southern Realms etc.). In order of most to least likely IMO.
 
consequences said:
You seem to have your dragons confused here. Cython is the one that mutilated their soul to attune to a wind rather than cling to a probably doomed dream that would likely only see them eaten by something in their sleep.

Deathfang might very well respond with 'Fuck do I care, I'm out bitches'. Cython kind of needs the planet to stay stableish. A mere million orc Waaagh is a fleeting, transitory problem that if all else failed they could casually fly away from. The fact that in the last couple centuries the Chaos Wastes moved a great deal closer is a much more concerning prospect.
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My point is he is made as much of magic as flesh. If the Empire has the magic saturation of the Deep Wastes, non-Chaos human civilization dies, Cython is probably fine to nap in a cave somewhere because even in the Deep Wastes Greater daemons are rare and he would not be an easy fight even for one of them.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Well, it's the version that tells the most people and generates the most paperwork, so anyone with a good enough spy system or connections. Let's see, the Cults, Chaos probably, the Lahmians I'd expect, Ulthuan has a better chance this way, and sundry foreign powers (Marienburg, Bretonnia, the Southern Realms etc.). In order of most to least likely IMO.
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Here's the thing though, the waystone project ins't a secret. Matilda has been very openly about the fact with other leader's she's meet, and they've had subjects who would talk and was nearby at the time. The entire alliance between the Empire and the elves is hinging on this project.

The project ins't a secret for anyone who cares to look. What this vote is about Dhar and how we are gonna share that information, if we wanna ignore protocol and go straight to emperor, or try and go through the proper channels.
 
Sa'kage said:
Here's the thing though, the waystone project ins't a secret. Matilda has been very openly about the fact with other leader's she's meet, and they've had subjects who would talk and was nearby at the time. The entire alliance between the Empire and the elves is hinging on this project.

The project ins't a secret for anyone who cares to look. What this vote is about Dhar and how we are gonna share that information, if we wanna ignore protocol and go straight to emperor, or try and go through the proper channels.
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If say the Lahmians know about the Project they will know to stop it, if they know it involves Dhar they will have a very powerful tool to stop it, make that public.
 
Sa'kage said:
Here's the thing though, the waystone project ins't a secret. Matilda has been very openly about the fact with other leader's she's meet, and they've had subjects who would talk and was nearby at the time. The entire alliance between the Empire and the elves is hinging on this project.

The project ins't a secret for anyone who cares to look. What this vote is about Dhar and how we are gonna share that information, if we wanna ignore protocol and go straight to emperor, or try and go through the proper channels.
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true, but that's what i'm talking about. All those people are people who could object to this, or have reasons to pay extra attention. If Chaos doesn't know that the Networks uses Dhar, that's useful information to them. If they do know, this is an indication that the Project is already going places and at least needs to be kept an eye on. And so on and do forth. Not to mention that foreign states probably aren't paying huge attaention to the Project now, but might if it starts generating paperwork with "Top Secret" stamped everywhere.

And as Dragon mentions, "this involves Dhar" is a hugely powerful weapon to people wanting to shut the Project down.
 
TreP said:
Wouldn't papers from Emperor be even more authentic than Patriarch one? Because of Articles? Not arguing your point, just curious.
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The Patriarch one also has the Emperors signature on it. It's not "one or the other", it's both. The question is: do we apply for it the official way via Dragomas, who takes it to the Emperor, or do we ask the Emperor directly to grant it to us on the spot, and then have Dragomas approve it retroactively.
 
DragonParadox said:
If say the Lahmians know about the Project they will know to stop it, if they know it involves Dhar they will have a very powerful tool to stop it, make that public.
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I'd argue the Lahmian Sisterhood specifically wouldn't be against the project.

It's generally stated that the Lahmians want humanity strong enough to resist Chaos and the like, just under their control.

Putting up new Waystones doesn't really do anything to stop Lahmian infiltration.
 
DragonParadox said:
If say the Lahmians know about the Project they will know to stop it, if they know it involves Dhar they will have a very powerful tool to stop it, make that public.
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In which case, going through the proper protocols is the right way to go. Because then we've made it clear that we knew about the problem and didn't try to hide it at all. We sent through the correct memo's let everyone who need to know about it, know about it

Going straight to the emperor, means we wouldn't trust our own mage experts to verify what we are doing, and instead had to make the Emperor do it for us, behind their back. We can't hide this forever, and i think making everyone on board from the start is far better, instead of springing it as a suprise on them later, where they'd be caught on the backfoot
 
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