Do the Lahmian's even have any real power anymore? Their cult in Altdorf was destroyed, their cities are under Roswita's control, one of their leaders is on her mantelpiece, and the other fled into the swamps pursued by a dozen battlewizards. Like, I'm not saying they are gone forever—there's probably quite a few lying low waiting for their chance to rise up again, but can they do that in the here and now, and is the Waystone project something they'll be able to target?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
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If you believe it will leak inevitably then yes you should go though the proper protocols , if on the other hand you think a leak is contingent on the information getting to say Feldman's secretary who is a lahmian thrall then the proper protocols are a mistake, since they would not have the advantage if you had not spread it around.
Codex
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I'm sure Nagash, too, would love the Waystone Project. Just, you know, under his control with all of it feeding him.
Yes, the lahmians always have power, they have had power since before the ancestors of the Imperial Tribes crossed the world's edge mountains. That kind of power does not get destroyed or even dented in a few years with some flashy wins.
With the revelation that the means to alter the magical properties of stone was known to the dwarves pre-contact with the elves, I have some speculation on the great Runes of Valaya, applied to every dwarf-hold to insulate them from magic. In particular, how does this interact with the Karak-waystones that comprise the network of the Karaz Ankor? After all, if the stone is magically conductive, this defeats the whole purpose of mountain holds, which were made to shield the dwarves from the Coming of Chaos and the influx of magic into the world.
If dwarf runes can make stone, an excellent insulator of magic, conductive, surely the reverse is also possible - easier, likely, given the associations of dwarves and antimagic. With that in mind, what if runes of Valaya affect not the stone of the hold, but the air/space that the dwarves reside in? Air, which is normally an excellent conductor of Winds, could potentially be made insulating under the effect of runes - something likely complicated by the medium/ambiguity of definition; hence why it was devised by an Ancestor God.
The Karak-waystones, then, when combined with a Rune of Valaya, act as a magical Faraday cage, diverting incident Winds into the Waystone network that itself powers the ancestor-work in Karaz a Karak that distributes energy to the hold runes. This could also explain why the growth of non-connected holds is (was?) a problem for the network. Newly created holds add additional connections to the master array that powers the antimagic effect, obviously, but the growth and expansion of existing new holds (as the dwarves within dig new tunnels and facilities and the like) also increases the drain, as the volume to which the rune applies increases. If the Rune of Valaya applied to the stone of the hold, this wouldn't make sense, as mountains don't tend to increase in size as the hold grows and stone is already an excellent insultator of magic. This is actually reminiscent of the enchantment that pulled Vlag into the warp, which was overstressed as the dwarves within continued to dig along the underground river.
If dwarf runes can make stone, an excellent insulator of magic, conductive, surely the reverse is also possible - easier, likely, given the associations of dwarves and antimagic. With that in mind, what if runes of Valaya affect not the stone of the hold, but the air/space that the dwarves reside in? Air, which is normally an excellent conductor of Winds, could potentially be made insulating under the effect of runes - something likely complicated by the medium/ambiguity of definition; hence why it was devised by an Ancestor God.
The Karak-waystones, then, when combined with a Rune of Valaya, act as a magical Faraday cage, diverting incident Winds into the Waystone network that itself powers the ancestor-work in Karaz a Karak that distributes energy to the hold runes. This could also explain why the growth of non-connected holds is (was?) a problem for the network. Newly created holds add additional connections to the master array that powers the antimagic effect, obviously, but the growth and expansion of existing new holds (as the dwarves within dig new tunnels and facilities and the like) also increases the drain, as the volume to which the rune applies increases. If the Rune of Valaya applied to the stone of the hold, this wouldn't make sense, as mountains don't tend to increase in size as the hold grows and stone is already an excellent insultator of magic. This is actually reminiscent of the enchantment that pulled Vlag into the warp, which was overstressed as the dwarves within continued to dig along the underground river.
Tasoli
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[x] Imperial Dispensation
You go Collage dispension, 50 people know about it. You take Emperor one, 3 people does. And Emperor one is more ironclad to booth.
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No this is wrong. You are treating Emperor given dispension as less valid than Collage one and that is completely off base. Emperor says we are cool then we are cool. No if or buts about it. Nobody and I mean nobody in the Empire can go "but muh protocol" on Emperor given dispension. That is what being Emperor means.
You go Collage dispension, 50 people know about it. You take Emperor one, 3 people does. And Emperor one is more ironclad to booth.
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We literally have Lights chaos fighter on the project. Who else is going to get gainsay on Elrisse?
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pucflek
Verified simpleton
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No. Like, straight up, this argument is bad.
Everyone already fucking knows about waystone project. everyone.
The idea of "what if chaos finds out we are researching waystones" went out of the window the moment we started asking people if they want to host it and treating that as any kind of point is, frankly, weird.
Tsarechich knows, Duke and Duchess of Carcassonne knows, Belegar knows, Everyone in fucking Laurelorn knows. The fact waystones are being researched is common goddamn knowledge. This is a non-argument, it does not exist as a consideration.
It being dhar secret is irrelevant to this, since they are actually bound to know. ACtually, everyone with magic that is not human is bound to know. The infosec you imagine exists now, does not, in fact, exist, not in this regard.
I would honestly say that Emperor sets us up for clashing within college, since Emperors order does not preclude the Ideals of Sigmars empire order, and thus allows for that layer of conflict, whereas the issue of Dragomas route is bureaucracy dragging its feet.
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Mopman43
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Do we have any reason to think the two in Sylvania were especially notable Lahmians?
The top dog* of the Lahmian Sisterhood almost certainly remains Neferata, and her place of power is the Silver Pinnacle in the World's Edge Mountains.
*Or cat, I suppose
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[X] College Dispensation
It is not the argument, it is 'what if Chaos finds out we are researching Dhar' and tells say the Cult of Sigmar, they come asking 'are you researching Dhar?' We can either lie... or tell the truth with the political consequences of both.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
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Generally true, but they might have something against Mathilde, or just want to slip one of their own in charge instead. Or just to force someone onto the project, and so on. It's not like the only options are "shut it down" or "let it go".
Tasoli
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You are the missing the point. Using Dhar in the waystones is the argument. Wrong people get the info and they might cause problems.
I mean some Cult steals the info from Feldmens inbox and next thing you know there is anti mage riots across the Empire.
I doubt Feldmann is so incompetent that his top secret mail is handled by a vampire cultist, and if it is we have bigger problems to worry about than a vampire trying to blackmail us.
That sounds incredibly defeatist, and doesn't justify going behind the colleges back. "Why didn't you apply for permission the normal way?" "Because I was worried that Vampire cultists might get hold of that information." "There are vampire cultists in Altdorf? Where, and why haven't you killed them yet?"
How many people do you think were exposed to the Conspiracy of Silence when Johann received his dispensation to study Skaven Technology?
Because they were openly ruling cities and led the defence against Roswita when she conquered their land.
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No, i'm treating this on the idea that an enemy wanna be downtalking or is critical of the project for whatever reason.
And the head research found out about the fact you need Dhar in the waystones. And instead of letting all the different mage expert know about it, instead ignored protocol to go to the Emperor, who isn't a mage in order to by-pass every other expert's opinion.
Like, if you are a sigmariate, who's looking to shut down this project, this would be one easy place to press pressure at it, because like. Sigmaraties aren't stupid, if they find out you need Dhar to keep waystone functioning they'll probaly grumble, but they are also aware that the entire old world relies on them exisisting, you can't just go tearing them down, because they contain dark magic.
The fact that The grand theologan was willing to use the secret's of Dhar, proves that Sigmaraties are willing to comprimise on their beliefs if they think the situation deserves it.
So, you find out that waystones need Dhar, but that the head mage, instead of telling everyone about it, went out of her way in order to make sure that the least amount of people possible would find out. And, these people would be the patriacts, the supposely most trusted and loyal of all the mages to the Empire, and she didn't want them to know.
That more then anything, feels to me, like it would be way more suspicious. Because it's the actions of someone, that needs to hide stuff from their own side, because their own side might have objections to what your doing.
If we go through the proper protocols, we can point to them and go "We found out about the Dhar, and alereted everyone who needed to know, the most loyal and trustworthy of the mages to this at once", so there are checks and balances against Matilda going full dark lady mode over here, with Dhar waystones. While both would cause grumling amonst the Sigmar people, i think the one where we try to hide it, from our own members, is by far the more suspicious one
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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Sure, but the power base of the Lahmians isn't Sylvania.
It's... everywhere else, basically. And the Silver Pinnacle especially.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
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Yeah sure, but this is apparently "common" fucking knowledge amongst everyone not human. If it was beneficial to chaos, it would be leaked already.
Mathilde is not even the best magesight oriented being in the world right now, much less in history.
Yeah. Silver Peak and every power base of humanity.
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[x] Imperial Dispensation
Reasons to bypass protocol and get a shady deal to ignore the most important rule all wizards have to follow:
1) Alric is a slimy worm
2) chaos cultists will rat us out to the sigmarites
3) vampire cultists are reading the college patriarch's mail and will blackmail us
4) Dragomas is going to personally inform everyone in the palace exactly what we are doing
Am I missing anything?
1) Alric is a slimy worm
2) chaos cultists will rat us out to the sigmarites
3) vampire cultists are reading the college patriarch's mail and will blackmail us
4) Dragomas is going to personally inform everyone in the palace exactly what we are doing
Am I missing anything?
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I think the thing that's still secret here isn't "Mathilde is running a project researching Waystones in Laurelorn" or "Waystones absorb and process Dhar", but "Waystones need Dhar to function and will make their own if they can't absorb any".
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I think you are just flat out wrong here. What will happen is that the Emperor will probably call in Dagomas, and the two of them might call in Algad. And whomever gets called in will decide how to classify it. And if the Emperor decides this is top secret, when someone startds digging into it, some servant of the Emperor will tell Dagomas, and he will inform their superior to tell them that "Yes, I'm aware. No I'm not telling you shit. Now stop looking and forget you ever tried to."
If the Emperor decides that's the level of secrecy needed. He could also decide to rope in the other Matriarch/Patriarchs. The point is that it bypasses traditional methods, to give the Emperor and Mat a choice who to tell, and who not to.
If the Emperor decides someones (or certain ranks) don't need to know, when they start sniffing around it, they'll be warned off. Like Mat was, when asking about the conspiracy. She still figured it out, but she also figured out never to tell anyone about it.
It's not knowing that Waystones use Dhar, it is knowing we know Waystones use Dhar and are still studying it that is the problem. To be able to prove that with a paper trail that says 'Dhar study approved' would be a hell of a mess. You could get the cult of Sigmar up in arms and wanting to outlaw the colleges for allying with the 'dark magic using elves' or something.
pucflek
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Sure. But its still doubtful Mathilde is the first being in five millenia that noticed and that this information, directly related to propagation of chaos across entire planet, would not be leaked already, by chaos.
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The Sigmarites want to outlaw the colleges anyway, and there have been two dispensations to study Dhar in the quest alone—and those are the only ones we've seen. If it was that easy to convince Lutipold to shut the colleges down, it would have already happened twice over by now.
