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My question is, why would Alric need to hear about the request to try to pull back Elrisse and Egrimm if that was something he wanted to do?

If he wanted to do that, he's going to try to do that, how would Imperial Dispensation stop him? His* problems with Mathilde would already be a thing, he wouldn't need to hear about the dispensation to form an opinion on the project.

*largely theoretical at this point, but still
Because alric would not learn directly about the dispensation or be able to stop it. If the emperor decides you have a dispensation then you have one and no one can say otherwise.

Alric is not anti empire,and thus most likely not- anti waystone. He also might not ever learn of it. People acting as if the dispensation means it will be widespread. IT doesn't have to be
He will get told about the dispensation if we go the college route. He is still officially the patriarch of the lights and so is still in the loop for that stuff.
 
But he would save them from the madness of Dhar exposure, he can sell it to any cautious types well enough I think, and the political ones would just see it as a jab at Mira
Didn't he literally volunteer Egrimm for a trip to the Chaos Wastes? Complete with an experiment on Dhar exposure, too. I think it's more likely that he'll try to hang around in Laurelorn or Nordland for a bit than directly pull out of the project.
 
To be fair, it would give him a plausible reason for pulling them off it, rather than looking liek a petty power play.

"I don't trust two of my Lords Magister—one of whom is my former apprentice, who I recently sent to the Chaos Wastes—to safely study Dhar, despite the fact that Dragomas and Lutipold, who both approved their promotion to Lord Magister, believe they are trustworthy enough."
 
"I don't trust two of my Lords Magister—one of whom is my former apprentice, who I recently sent to the Chaos Wastes—to safely study Dhar, despite the fact that Dragomas and Lutipold, who both approved their promotion to Lord Magister, believe they are trustworthy enough."
The problem is that the only ones he need to justify it to is his order and they can't stop him right now. So yes, that's exactly what he could do.
 
"I don't trust two of my Lords Magister—one of whom is my former apprentice, who I recently sent to the Chaos Wastes—to safely study Dhar, despite the fact that Dragomas and Lutipold, who both approved their promotion to Lord Magister, believe they are trustworthy enough."
It's probably more "I don't like the idea of these people putting up Dhar-making stones at all, but since I can't fully stop them I'll at least make sure my Lord Magisters aren't involved in and actively helping such a dangerous endeavor."
 
The problem is that the only ones he need to justify it to is his order and they can't stop him right now. So yes, that's exactly what he could do.

What do you mean "they can't stop him"? His order is literally rebelling against him right now.

It's probably more "I don't like the idea of these people putting up Dhar-making stones at all, but since I can't fully stop them I'll at least make sure my Lord Magisters aren't involved in and actively helping such a dangerous endeavor."

How would he know the stones make Dhar? Unless Elrisse tells him directly, all he'll learn from the note from Dragomas is "the study of waystones requires the study of Dhar, and this study has been approved by both the Emperor and the SP." He can't exactly say "I don't want my wizards to study how to remove Dhar from the environment."
 
"I don't trust two of my Lords Magister—one of whom is my former apprentice, who I recently sent to the Chaos Wastes—to safely study Dhar, despite the fact that Dragomas and Lutipold, who both approved their promotion to Lord Magister, believe they are trustworthy enough."
I didn't say it was a good reason, but it is a better reason than literally nothing.
 
How would he know the stones make Dhar? Unless Elrisse tells him directly, all he'll learn from the note from Dragomas is "the study of waystones requires the study of Dhar, and this study has been approved by both the Emperor and the SP." He can't exactly say "I don't want my wizards to study how to remove Dhar from the environment."
Article 7 prohibits stuff that uses Dhar, which includes Waystones, but not the study of Dhar itself.
 
Didn't he literally volunteer Egrimm for a trip to the Chaos Wastes? Complete with an experiment on Dhar exposure, too. I think it's more likely that he'll try to hang around in Laurelorn or Nordland for a bit than directly pull out of the project.
Yes, but iirc, Boney rolled for that and there was a chance he would have come if the roll had been different. And then who knows, maybe he'd have tried to take some credit for Karak Vlag coming back. But I really don't think he was sending Egrimm with the expectation he'd die.
 
The Karaz Ankor has a Waystone network, which uses Waystone Karaks to do...something (source: Cadaeth)
Powering the throne of the High King and other such artifacts, doesn't it?

-Are there other Runes from Old One script being used somewhere? If so, would learning this help us somehow?
Lizardmen would be my bet, but getting them to teach us... hard. Very hard.
Material Science:
We can't harvest it from a Waystone, obviously, but if we can get our hands on some already harvested Waystone Gold that will be useful for the purpose of studying the material itself.
-Broken Waystones?
-Loot from desecrated Waystones? If so, it might be found in the possession of the kind of people who break Waystones: Chaos tribes, necromancers, Beastmen, Skaven...
-Black market? I'll bet there's some stupid nobles who get off on the fact that their golden jewelry is super illegal.
Follow up, where does the Waystone Gold that gets confiscated end up? Thrown into a vault? Melted down with regular gold for coinage to dilute it past the point of use?
-What about Waystones or tributaries that don't have capstones made of Waystone Gold?
The Rune appears on some, but not all, of the first Waystones constructed by the Elves alone (source: Hatalath)
"Well, it works, kind of, but if we can't really pump up the next few revisions, we're going to have to go back to the usual model."
 
Yes, but iirc, Boney rolled for that and there was a chance he would have come if the roll had been different. And then who knows, maybe he'd have tried to take some credit for Karak Vlag coming back. But I really don't think he was sending Egrimm with the expectation he'd die.
Alternative rolls don't really matter IC, just as Thorgrim rolling a 2 on his response to Waaagh Birdmuncha meant he could have sent aid if that roll had been higher. I'm not sure where you're getting 'sending Egrimm with the expectation he'd die' from.
 
Alternative rolls don't really matter IC, just as Thorgrim rolling a 2 on his response to Waaagh Birdmuncha meant he could have sent aid if that roll had been higher. I'm not sure where you're getting 'sending Egrimm with the expectation he'd die' from.
Oh, sorry, I misread your post and assumed you were arguing that Alric didn't care for Egrimm's safety.
 
Why are you all so convinced that Alric is this evil scheming bastard that is going to destroy the project that you are justifying ignoring protocol, even though ignoring protocol makes us look more suspicious and vulnerable to criticism? And for what? so we don't have to tell four highly trusted and competent wizards that their underlings are breaking the most important rule about magic? Why is it so important that Alric, Algard, Feldmann, and Paranoth are left in the dark about us breaking Article 7? They are the ones who need to know most of all, so that they can then protect us from external criticism.

We are breaking Article 7—the article that justifies the hunting and killing of wizards. We want it so that no one can criticise our behaviour. Ignoring the normal, formal channels for applying for this exception—channels we have previously benefited from—makes us look suspicious. What are we doing that's so dark and forbidden we had to hide it not just from our own patriarch, but from every patriarch aligned with the waystone project?

If someone asks Algard "hey, is Mathilde supposed to working with Dhar?" and he goes "... I don't think so?" what do you think will happen next? Or he could go "yes, I have a note here from the Emperor that she has permission to do that, and no, you don't have permission to know what she's doing." Which do you think is better? I don't want Algard to feel like we don't trust him, and I definitely don't want him to feel he can't trust us. Lets not cut him out of the loop—hell, this isn't a cut, it's an amputation!
 
Alternative rolls don't really matter IC, just as Thorgrim rolling a 2 on his response to Waaagh Birdmuncha meant he could have sent aid if that roll had been higher. I'm not sure where you're getting 'sending Egrimm with the expectation he'd die' from.
Rolls are an OOC way of determining what an NPC chooses to do out of a list of reasonable (to them) options. IC, they thought it over for a bit and gave us the result of whatever was rolled.

And I think this was just a typical "throw Egrimm at the gribblies yet again, and if the expedition succeeds, steal all the credit" operation somewhat undermined by us having the Protector on for Vlag. (Speaking of the Protector, is that part of why Ljiljana was so quick to forgive Ranald after Mathilde chose to stay and help with the Kul? I'm pretty sure we had the Coin set to that one face for the whole expedition)

I don't want Algard to feel like we don't trust him, and I definitely don't want him to feel he can't trust us. Lets not cut him out of the loop—hell, this isn't a cut, it's an amputation!
Algard is a Grey Magister. He's probably used to the idea of people being cut out of the loop for opsec and people only getting informed on a need-to-know basis. The Grey College goes all in on their members being loyal rather than accountable for a reason.
 
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I'm fairly sure this is one of those situations where he needs to know.
We could just tell him afterwards. Besides, the Grey College emphasizes loyalty over accountability for a reason. Members are supposed to be able to handle grey areas with their own judgement rather than constantly informing their superiors over every shady decision they make because those superiors will throw a fit if they're not kept up to date on everything.
 
We could just tell him afterwards. Besides, the Grey College emphasizes loyalty over accountability for a reason. Members are supposed to be able to handle grey areas with their own judgement rather than constantly informing their superiors over every shady decision they make because those superiors will throw a fit if they're not kept up to date on everything.

"Asking for forgiveness instead of permission" doesn't work when we're a) asking forgiveness for an act literally described by the law as treason and b) involving wizards from other Orders.

If we were keeping it in house I'd say sure (like Regimand and the former Empress), but there are five other wizards who won't be protected by that, and we will have to answer to their patriarchs if we go around them.
 
You know, Waystone construction wise, I wonder if the Dhar requirement is why so many waystones are instead appear as shrines and sacred places. Because, depending on how, exactly divine energies interacts with the winds, I suspect it may be possible for them to replace Dhar in the operation.

... Honestly, that feels like something that could be to be tested with AV: Both how the substance itself interacts with wind-pairs, and may or may not allow corralling thereof, and using it to test which gods' assistance, if any, would be viable for such in the place of Dhar.
 
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