Boney's previous statement on Mathilde asking Kragg to go with her to the Elf Kingdom of Laurelorn is that it'd take considerable explanation to get across that she didn't mean "At the head of an army".
"So you want me to go to the Elgi to raze their city?"
"No I want you to go to the elf's to visit their city."
"To burn down their houses, right?"
"No not to burn down their houses, to visit, v i s i t."
"I'm not getting it. When do we burn down their city? Before or after visiting it?"
"We are not burning down their city!"
"But why am I visiting then?"
"To cooperate with them on a project."
"Does that project include burning down their city?"
"... You know what? Forget that I asked, have a nice day kragg."
Edit: this amused me way more then I thought it would. I'm still giggling at the confused expressing on kragg that I'm imagining is on his face when Mathilde leaves
Kragg also grumbling about silly zuf nonsense that prevents Mathy from saying what she actually means since obviously she wants to lead an army to Elgi town.
As far as we know in quest teclis had no explanation for divine casting. He only lumped it into the winds and then stopped talking about it even as it got clear that it's not like any wind casting. We could of course speculate that the elf's have a perfect explanation for it but they haven't given it so we can't use it.
What I'm trying to say is that with our current informations the elf's have no explanation for divine casters therefore their teachings on magic might have other flaws.
The explanation Teclis gave as recorded in Realm of Sorcery says that divine magic used the Winds of the Aethyr. The Winds of Magic aren't called the Winds of the Aethyr anywhere else I can find. That's for a good reason, they're not the Winds of the Aethyr, as the Winds of Magic are the Wind of the material worlds. Elsewhere gods are described as currents/forces/vortexes in the Aethyr, which lines up pretty well with a description of them as Winds. It also would line up with with the way some cultures worship the Winds of Magic as if they're gods, they may be similar phenomena in some ways.
We know the Colleges didn't interpret Teclis' explanation in a way that they found useful, and they appear, if Boney is using what Realms of Sorcery as an accurate reflection of what Teclis said, to have severely misinterpreted it, thinking that when he said Winds of the Aethyr he was just using an unusual term for the Winds of Magic.
Teclis also said, I believe, that the casters of divine magic shaped the miracles channelled through them based on their expectations, just as he said that human belief shaped their gods. That's hard to disprove, and could easily be true, and true in a couple of different ways depending on the interpretation.
"You want me," Thorek begins. He pauses, and slowly relaxes his vice grip on the creaking armest of the wooden chair he's occupying in one of the designated private meeting rooms of the Waystone Project's Laurelorn headquarters. The Runelord and his wizardly colleague are the only two occupants, the rest of their strange and eclectic group having dispersed for the day on various errands.
"You want me," he tries again, "to do you a favour."
"More specifically, I need you to do me a favour for the Project." Mathilde replies.
"I agreed to endure much when I joined the Project. What more is there to do?" The dwarf holds up a hand as the wizard begins to speak. "More specifically, what more is there to do, that I have not already done, that I have not already started preparing to do, that involves the twenty odd vials of extremely volatile magical substance you've put on the table?"
"Know that I have nothing but the utmost of respect for you," the Grey Wizard says. "As a researcher. As a runesmith. As—"
"Get on with it." the Longbeard grumbles. He can feel the beginnings of a headache starting to form.
"We need more Runelords."
"More Runelords?"
"For the Project. You're great, but with the numbers involved—"
"That's not something you need to bribe me for." the Runelord interrupts. "I have candidates in mind, though I can't be sure how agreeable they would be to the forest until I've made the pitch—"
"I want Kragg." The words slip out.
A pause. Then, an eruption.
"Absolutely not! Of all the infuriatingly arrogant goat-brained small-minded wazzocks! He'd sooner burn down this city than work with it, and even after you convince him not to bring the throng—"
"I know he's your rival, but—"
"—who's he even going to agree to talk to—"
"—and the best way to convince a Runelord is another Runelord—"
"—most ridiculous requests that will end in complete catrastrophe—"
"—Thirty! Thirty vials of Aethyric Vitae! Half for trying, half for success!"
"..."
"..."
Thorek Ironbrow despairs. He's going to make the attempt.
Kragg stares at Thorek in confusion. "But where's the army?"
@Boney As far as we can tell, do Hedgewise have their own set of Arcane Marks (the way Ice and Hag Witches have Witch Marks)? What about Elementalists?
I figure someone thought of this (I believe the average SVer is smarter than me) but I've done basic due diligence and searched for this so in case no one has mentioned it is locally producing Tropical cash crops with Dwarvern Rune or College Wizarding enchantment profitable? The Dwarfs might not like farming but if they can provide sunlight runed caverns then some arrangement of heating, water and sunlight could be arranged to farm Coffee, Sugar or Chocolate crops arbitrarily far north possibly substituting Dwarvern runes or labor with Human magic or farming. Might be useful for the mineral-poor Karak Norn or the Rune rich Karak Vlag in particular.
I figure someone thought of this (I believe the average SVer is smarter than me) but I've done basic due diligence and searched for this so in case no one has mentioned it is locally producing Tropical cash crops with Dwarvern Rune or College Wizarding enchantment profitable? The Dwarfs might not like farming but if they can provide sunlight runed caverns then some arrangement of heating, water and sunlight could be arranged to farm Coffee, Sugar or Chocolate crops arbitrarily far north possibly substituting Dwarvern runes or labor with Human magic or farming. Might be useful for the mineral-poor Karak Norn or the Rune rich Karak Vlag in particular.
For the dwarfs I think it's mostly that they see farming as something beneath them. Like they will do it to survive but there's not ancestor god of farming so trading with the empire is preferable. And the human wizards have the problem of there being not enough of them to pull battle duty and do agriculture. Though maybe the jades are doing it somewhere and we just don't know.
I figure someone thought of this (I believe the average SVer is smarter than me) but I've done basic due diligence and searched for this so in case no one has mentioned it is locally producing Tropical cash crops with Dwarvern Rune or College Wizarding enchantment profitable? The Dwarfs might not like farming but if they can provide sunlight runed caverns then some arrangement of heating, water and sunlight could be arranged to farm Coffee, Sugar or Chocolate crops arbitrarily far north possibly substituting Dwarvern runes or labor with Human magic or farming. Might be useful for the mineral-poor Karak Norn or the Rune rich Karak Vlag in particular.
I'd be surprised if the Jades weren't already doing this or something similar to fund their College, the way the Celestials sell their fortunetelling to nobility.
This as something for Vlag to rebuild its wealth is a solid idea, if they have the runes to do it -- we know they have light, but do they have light in the right wavelengths for plants to absorb to grow "market well" as opposed to just "survival well"? And "what qualities the soil has" is something that can't really be finagled without Jade magic -- drainage can be, sure, but not what type of soil it is (sandy/loamy/clay), acidity/alkalinity is possible to mess with if you have the right additives, but everything about the process requires farming expertise that they may not have.
There is an argument that he does think its not going to happen. so he is not going to have to pay up.
in that case, being part of the Project is the goal in of itself.
if thats the case: his goals could be:
A) looting the group for magical knowledge. (to be fair, that's kind of everyone's sub-goal.) Victory for this aganda is just being at the table with a notepad.
B) promoting Magical/religious (the same thing for this house/cult) interaction with the empire. The cult of Hekarti is the ones getting involved with the Colleges of magic, and so will be the ones to benefit in influence and connections (for whatever goal) before anyone else.
C) Connections: success or failure, this is one of the broadness collections of magic traditions... ever? at least without a war involved. if you were an isolated magic cult finally allowed to see what's up with the world, the waystone project is a dam good way to start networking.
D) some/all of the above/ other stuff.
At this point, there are reasons to just want to be at that table if your life is all about being horny for the magic, as long as you don't have to give up anything or have other stuff to do. (and this is an isolated cult, not the damsel, they very much might not have much to do.)
@Boney As far as we can tell, do Hedgewise have their own set of Arcane Marks (the way Ice and Hag Witches have Witch Marks)? What about Elementalists?
Boney has been consistent with not putting up trap options, so while you could make a case for it being destabilizing. An even bigger case would be why Boney wouldn't do it.
Pushing the Project down a certain path that has pros (Tindomiel expertize and labor) and cons (having to work around Tindomiel's demands and idiosyncracies to the point where it alienates other project partners) would not be a trap option.
Thorek's condition is not self contained. We do not have to babysit it, but that it is not the same thing as saying that it has a definitive end game. He asked for the lore of the Middleland Dwarfs and we set that in motion, for all we know that is the start of a centuries long feud. Timonel were simply the first to make a long term request of us... actually no.
Now that I think of it one of the Light Order's potential costs was a library cooperation that was tipped in their direction, that too would have been long term and affect one of our projects.
I guess what makes Tindomiel special is that they didn't give much in the way of options. They asked for one thing and then are open to negotiation regarding the width and breadth of that one thing. But if the underlying idea (giving a specific Elven House/Cult of Hekarti indefinite right of first refusal to build Waystones in a certain area) is not to our liking then there are no alternatives. Technically Paranoth did the same, but "go investigate that thing there" is kind of a different level of request, as evident by how far above and beyond we decided to go. Everyone else either gave us very divergent options or didn't ask for anything at all.
The chaos wastes would stop advancing, dark magic would be weaker. By saving the world it means less preventing any chance of it ending and more stopping the ongoing apocalypse.
It wouldn't be just dark magic that gets weaker. It would be all Wind magic and probably also Earthbound magic. I don't know how it would affect Divine magic, but if we're "too" successful then Wizards might have to look at Araby to learn how to continue channeling magic.
Also, let's not overstate how much apocalypse protection it gives on its own. Daemons have a harder time manifesting and staying manifested, evil magic is weaker and can accomplish less spectacular things, the whispers of Chaos have a harder time being heard and generally supernatural stuff is way down. But Chaos Warriors with bound Daemon items can still keep coming and tear the Waystones down. Nagash managed to do everything he did in the deep south. Skaven source plenty of magic from Warpstone even though they are heavily isolated from the Winds as deep underground as they are. And I wouldn't be surprised if Waystones have little to no effect on Waaagh energies.
The Waystone Project will help, but it won't close down the Polar Gates. And anyone who manages to do world threatening evil independently of ambient magic will continue to be able to do so.
You go to this guy and say "we can push back the Dewastacja, but one of our manufacturers want to dedicate it to this weird minor god" and he will wait for you to finish because he doesn't see an issue. Heck, with his level of desperation, he'd probably try to force the Ice Witches to accept outright shrines to Hekarti. The Tsarevich isn't fucking around, his country is first in line for every Chaos invasion and he knows what that means.
You're right. There's no need to worry that the Tsarevich wouldn't accept new Waystones, even if they were built by Trolls and had their dick picks all over them. But in order to get there the research phase has to go smoothly that means not alienating the Ice Witches (and other useful religious cults). I guess we can do that by not telling anyone Tindomiel's price until the point where it becomes relevant, but that in turn will mean that those chickens will come back to roost.
Actually not really. We mostly got these specific orders involved (light and life ) because we think they have pre teclisian knowledge because of who they were before teclis came. Normal humans have build functioning waystones before without the help of elf's .
To be fair, the Lights are cagey about what they know and the Jade's own Patriarch thinks they know nothing of value. For all we know they know less than the Hedgewise. I don't think it likely, but it is a possibility.
Which is a bit weird to me, because this guy of all people should know how hard this is. It's been thousands of years since a new Waystone was erected! The knowledge is lost! He barely knows the woman asking him to join the project, who has not shown any results so far by the way! She managed to get a bunch of people gathered up, an impressive collection, based on promises, literally building on a shadow, and this guy is intending to work for free unless it's successful!
Either he's supremely, immensely arrogant, desperate, or there's something weird here. I refuse to believe he would have this much faith over nothing.
Or the Father worked after all and he trusts Mathilde when she says that she is bringing all those juicy Dwarven secrets. IIRC Dwarves used to build Waystones without Elves just like Elves used to build them without Dwarves, even if for the Dwarves it was only after they learned how to do it from the Elves.
As of yet there is no rule that WP participants can't go to their respective Guilds and share everything they've learned. In theory all the capable members could team up once the research has concluded and open their own Waystone business on the side. If not in person then through their Guilds.
Oh, here is another purely theoretical question. Do we enforce Tindomiel RoFR for Waystone, or do we not care if someone else would have a capacity to construct one.
Enforce as in threaten to bash in the heads of any "rogue Waystone construction crews"? I for one would vehemently vote against it if they are actually building real Waystones.
The Colleges are a military institution first and foremost that's super busy and struggles to spare the manpower for much, and even then they have a very small number of actually potent Wizards with the necessary skill set for work of this degree.
Waystones might be the equivalent of roads and forts in this comparison. Military institutions built these all the time. Being able to pump out more Waystones might be worth a few less battle mages.
An Elven Major House dedicated to Magical workings is a huge boon anyway you look at it from a manpower perspective. Elves have a larger proportion of Magic users than humans, and unlike Human Mages, they don't die as often, because they don't chisel their hands and charge into battle only to explode a few moments later. Most of these people have likely been studying magic most of their lives in a way that isn't primarily about killing people. Elves used to view magic as an expression of art rather than a tool of war, and they were sad when they had to use it that way.
Fair enough, I mostly used it because it's the only "big library of magic in ulthuan" I know. And it still doesn't diminish my point. I doubt the lowly colonists got send out here with a comprehensive collection of elven magic lore.
Twelve of them were literally super radical edge case researchers. And four Houses are dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge and casting magic respectively. And I'm not sure, but wasn't the founding Queen's mom the actual Everqueen once?
We're not talking about persecuted sectarians that left the motherland because of a lack of potatoes here.
Edit: Turns out it wasn't an Everqueen's daughter. Just one of her elite bodyguards.
As of yet there is no rule that WP participants can't go to their respective Guilds and share everything they've learned. In theory all the capable members could team up once the research has concluded and open their own Waystone business on the side. If not in person the through their Guilds.
Well, given the options functionally on the table are "waystones in Laurelorn" where enforcement is up to then and "waystones in the empire" where we have authority, that's fine- everyone else gets to do their thing.
Plus, the elves know there's no recourse for them if anyone breaks the deal except dropping out of the manufacturing, so it's not like they have any leverage in the way you imply. And they know it.
What do you mean? I don't think I implied that they had much leverage here. The main leverage I can think of is threatening Mathilde with reputational damage for dealing in what they consider to be bad faith.
I mean, looking through the list, I don't think the issue is price but rather the fact that so many ingredients are so specific.
Like, I don't think you'll find 'a cup of blood drawn when Morrslieb was full' or 'the ash of a hawthorn branch that was burnt at noon' at the local village market.
I do think there is going to be a very, very high chance Thorek going to bring out whatever it is that Boney said they would use to enforce Mathy not giving up Runesmith secrets if she asked to take the oath.
Frankly, I imagine There are going to be a Lot of Oaths of 'dont share this until/if we have a need for it, and only with people that need to know' as the first step of 'lay the foundation'
I joke that the 'Waystone projects' final form will be 'The Waystone Coven/Cycle/Brotherhood/etc' but in all reality, there probably will have to very specific rules about 'whose allowed to know what' in all the organizations: not every ice madian/Journeyman/Wizard/runesmith will get to know.
so ya, there is going to be a 'waystone cycle/coven/Brotherhood' made up of a limited number of people from all the group...
... which, thinking about it, means that Tindomiel make up the majority if this goes through...
@Boney As far as we can tell, do Hedgewise have their own set of Arcane Marks (the way Ice and Hag Witches have Witch Marks)? What about Elementalists?
Unknown. It's very hard to tell from the outside what's a permanent transfiguration of the soul, what's a result of prolonged exposure to a type of magic that would fade if the person stopped using it, and what's an entirely cultural result of stereotypes or affectations.
You're right. There's no need to worry that the Tsarevich wouldn't accept new Waystones, even if they were built by Trolls and had their dick picks all over them.
What do you mean? I don't think I implied that they had much leverage here. The main leverage I can think of is threatening Mathilde with reputational damage for dealing in what they consider to be bad faith.
If there's no leverage than there's no need to work around thier idiosyncrasies- and since all of the demands happen after they've functionally lost their leverage I don't see your concern.
Or the Father worked after all and he trusts Mathilde when she says that she is bringing all those juicy Dwarven secrets. IIRC Dwarves used to build Waystones without Elves just like Elves used to build them without Dwarves, even if for the Dwarves it was only after they learned how to do it from the Elves.
What's making me giggle is the expression I'm imagining him to have: a very small, but still quite there, satisfied smirk. Because Kragg totally does get it, he Just Does Not Want To Go and is having a bit of fun in messing with her.
@Boney Does Sartosa even have books (that aren't looted from other countries)? If so, are they lumped under Tilean or is the culture divergent enough to warrant its own separate grouping?
