Ulgu does not and likely cannot exist where the Gods live.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Ulgu does not and likely cannot exist where the Gods live.
That's why I don't like any "Let's give first rights to the Elves". It instantly turn "Cooperation project for the greater good" into some sort of Tindomiel patronage project. This just scraches me the wrong way.
I really hope there will be an option further along the road to renegotiate the contract to lessen Elven influence.
It is a bit hard, when the only reason they are in is for the self profit. That's not a problem per se, but where others have asked only for some service for themselves, Tindomiel are asking us to pick them over others to get their help.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
- Location
- Czech Republic
How?
This deal ensures that if for example, the Empire decides that they want to commission new waystone they need to ask Eonir mages first if there are any mages currently available to do so. If the Eonir say that yes it would be Eonir + runesmiths working together in the empire, if not the empire would need to ask colleges to provide wizards.
This deal ensures that "Cooperation project for the greater good" will exist after the research was finished rather than the humans and dwarfes just leaving after they got everything they needed to do it on their own.
Everyone is in this for self profit. The only reason the Witches are here is because they want the same elven secrets Teclis gave to the colleges. The Jades and the Lights had to be bribed, Thorek asked us to destabilise the Runesmiths guild so he can take over and become the head Runelord, the Grey Lords are here because the magic that sustains their home is under threat. Everyone involved has a selfish reason to be here, so I'm not sure why you are trying to hold Tindomiel to a higher standard, and then calling them out when they are no different than anyone else.
The only person here who is present for alturistic reasons is Mathilde herself.
Is this not overblown? They're creators at the top of their craft, they're already more used than not to be the first wanted when it comes to quality. I'm also going through manpower to demand here by intuition, I believe that elves have a distinctly low birth rate and population (no source), I assume that the demand for waystones is exceedingly high, given the spread out population centers and massive territory.
Is this right? Cause my mental model right now is that they want to get a lucrative contract deal that keeps paying out and will last them the lifetime of the empire.
This is more response to the picking them over others bit, I see it more like, in the batches of contractors we'll pick I'll make sure you have people in it every time. Still think I'm getting something wrong with the amount of assumptions I made.
Finally how viable is a monopoly here? I imagine the results of the Project either way will be heavily restricted, learning to make something makes it easier to break it after all. Does the empire even have Intellectual Property laws?
Not wanting the world to drown in chaos is arguably also a profit to herself since she lives in the world.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
- Location
- Plato´s cave.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/It/Its
That's not why she's doing it though. She's doing it cause she doesn't want millions to suffer and die.
- Location
- Finland
And to plunder all the secrets she can while doing it.
Getting access to an old elven library was pretty major reason why we are here, instead of, say, Brettonnia.
That's still a self profit—many of those people produce the various luxuries that Mathilde really likes, such as brandy and silk bedsheets.
What's wrong about humans and dwarfes (and elves) leaving to build they own versions of Waystones, instead of being forced to hire Tindomiel?
Okay, maybe my "Cooperation for greater good" remark was wrong. It's more how I like to see that project.
But I'm not trying to hold Tindomiel to a higher standard. As I said, everyone else's self profit is reasonable and self-contained. I would be totally willing to accept if condition would be something conclusive, like do X or help with Y. Not a contract without expiration date, that can or cannot potentially destabilize Project itself.
Boney has been consistent with not putting up trap options, so while you could make a case for it being destabilizing. An even bigger case would be why Boney wouldn't do it.
Thorek's condition is not self contained. We do not have to babysit it, but that it is not the same thing as saying that it has a definitive end game. He asked for the lore of the Middleland Dwarfs and we set that in motion, for all we know that is the start of a centuries long feud. Timonel were simply the first to make a long term request of us... actually no.
Now that I think of it one of the Light Order's potential costs was a library cooperation that was tipped in their direction, that too would have been long term and affect one of our projects.
What is consideretd a trap option by the way? Something with a certain hidden bad result? Or an option where something bad could happen, and we are not explicitly warned abot that? Or is it something else?
A trap option in this case would be something that goes bad in a way we could not have anticipated, so I am going to say that complications from this would not make it a trap option. That said everyone has potential complications
I feel like not enough attention has been given to what that magical theorist could give us. I mean think about it we are dealing with the priest-mage of a goddess of magic, with someone who is skilled in the mystical aspects of elvish magic as opposed to Teclis Hoethain teaching. We do not know if it takes a scholarly or a mystical understanding to make Waystones... but a lot of the humans we hired on lean mystical as far as I can see.
We literally gave Thorek the ammunition he needed to incite a civil war within the Runesmiths guild on the eve of the Karaz Ankor's greatest reconquest attempt. We might have permanently crippled Thorgim's crusade to retake Mt Silverspear by pushing the Cult of Thungni into a political cage match with itself.
We are empowering the druidic faction in the Jades who want to abandon Teclisian teachings in order to promote their "Earth Mother", who might not even be a real god.
We deliberately sabotaged Alric's attempt to maintain order over his college, and enabled his main rival to take his place, creating a schism throughout the light order.
None of those are "self contained".
We have broken a lot of eggs to get this far, but we still don't have any omelettes yet. Tindomiel are just another egg, but it's not one we have to crack today—it could be years before we get to the point of building waystones.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
You say this like Waystones have a single design they can go and check. I suspect the answer to "do Waystones have Elven symbols on them" is yes, no, maybe, sometimes, yes but not those ones, no but it has these other cultural symbols, and it used to.
It could also never happen. Just as a point, making new waystones is the "shoot for the moon" goal of the project.
Something deceptive is the convention I've adopted.
A set of choices which are portrayed distinctly different in the update from how it's portrayed, all choices don't matter, or a deliberately crafted choice made to appeal to the voter base that the voter base regrets (last one's grey area honestly).
In this case I reacted to the part that mentions that it may or may not destabilize the project.
We have been given no indication IC-wise that this will be disruptive to the cooperation between members. AP is also in separate bounds from the narrative, given the description of the action was to recruit a group for the project, deliberately displaying (not literally, but mentioned as available IC) a trap option there in which recruiting them in the first place was harmful to the project is what I would categorize as a trap option.
Perhaps you are right. Maybe it's just I somehow really don't like Tindomiel conditions.
We were, though. Not exactly on cooperation, but the troubles nonetheless.
- Location
- Czech Republic
Eonir are currently trying to figure out how to create positive and long-lasting relationships with the outside world and having a deal that they need to be involved when erecting these anti-chaos stones would definitely help with that.
Also, isn't this deal in our own benefit as a leader of WEB-MAT, an organization focused on cooperation between different types of spellcasters?
I mean they are not, we as a member of the Project pledge that they will have right of first Refusal within the empire and to be honest I am not very fussed by the matter of cost and who makes it as long as we have new waystones... if we get that far we have already made the moonshot.
I guess, that depends on how their right of first refusal will be seen by outside world. If it is positive, like "Elves want to work for our waystones", then sure, no problems. If it is negative, like "Elves want to hog up all glory and prestige", then we will be side-blamed as the ones who made the deal.
In case of Empire, sure. I don't think anyone will object to the Elves that want to do your work for you. I'm not that sure about possibility of religious tensions, guess we'll wait and see.
- Location
- Czech Republic
If the potential detractors wanted glory and prestige they should have figured out how to create waystones first.
Hmm, could those detractors be from contributing parties? Would Lights, for example, care for rights to build some Waystones?