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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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silentorphan said:
We rely on the magic greatsword, the coin of Ranald, etc. all the time; I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying we shouldn't use them anymore?
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Items with bound spells, like the flask, can be dispelled. Branalhune and the Coin don't actually work the same way and aren't vulnerable in the same manner.

Mopman43 said:
In tabletop at least, literally unbreakable units, such as slayers, have LD of 10. Which is the Strength bonus Kragg's Rune gives.

Boney might not be using the exact tabletop effects here, but we don't have much else to go off of.
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Unbreakable and 10 Ld aren't identical. Every Undead unit is Unbreakable, as are all Daemons. Not all of them have Ld 10. Dwarfs just have really high Ld anyway.

IronFist said:
One thing that would be pretty cool to make would be a single target version of the spell.

Going by TT mechanics, the way I'd have it work is similar to 40k's mind war: upon inflicting a wound, roll 1D6+Ld for the attacker and the defender. If the attacker gets the highest score, the defender takes wounds equal to the difference. If not, nothing happens to the attacker.

At that point it would be something worth combining (mechanically) with Branalhune.
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Spells and abilities like that exist, but are the province of necromancy or shyish.
 
DragonParadox said:
At the moment we have more CF than we know that to do with. Do you have any use in mind that will need more of the stuff than we would get from papers?
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A few ideas:
With enough college favors, we could outfit a bunch of magically bound red riders with full magical equipment. Then we could a set of elite knights solely loyal to us that we could summon using magic.
I'm fully on board with seeing if we could get something similar to a bag of holding from Algard.
Somebody has to know a way of regaining youth/delaying aging, probably Melkoth, we could see if they could help make us age slower or not at all.
Books, so many books.
If we get the knowledge to make waystones, hiring out branches of the colleges to make them.

But really the college favors are a secondary thing and not why I think we should do this.
 
French Cowboy said:
It's one of the long-term plans I saw that I actually quite like, not because it's efficient or even practical, but just because it's cool.
And while it could have little effect, it would raise our standing in the colleges, be worth quite a few college favors and probably put us in touch with some of the rising stars among the magisters of the grey college.
Also, the dwarfs would probably be inundated with orders for Rune of the Unknown swords.
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Problem with the idea of more swords with Rune of the Unknown- pretty sure that's a Rune only Kragg knows.
 
French Cowboy said:
A few ideas:
With enough college favors, we could outfit a bunch of magically bound red riders with full magical equipment. Then we could a set of elite knights solely loyal to us that we could summon using magic.
I'm fully on board with seeing if we could get something similar to a bag of holding from Algard.
Somebody has to know a way of regaining youth/delaying aging, probably Melkoth, we could see if they could help make us age slower or not at all.
Books, so many books.
If we get the knowledge to make waystones, hiring out branches of the colleges to make them.

But really the college favors are a secondary thing and not why I think we should do this.
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Some issues with that
  1. Apparitions are rather dim I would not be sure about their ability to use manufactured weapons and even if we could where are we going to keep the dozens of swords and armor sets when they are unsummoned? If they work like hounds they can only be called by spell for a limited about of time
  2. We asked about that when we heard about the Towers for the first time, the GM said he could not make that
  3. We are a wizard, we age slower anyway, it is unlikely we will have issues with age in the span of this quest
  4. Books are bught with Gold and we cannot turn CF into gold without breaching the Vow of Poverty
  5. If we get that lore they will happily do it for free, no one wants to get eaten by daemons
 
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Personally I would love for Mathilde to learn pendulum but I got to say finishing of the good swording is really compelling. We use branulhune so much being good with it is very beneficial.

I would also like to finish of the normal Grey Wizard spell book. Best dad showed us how usefull some of those spell can be.

Edit: also having a lady Magister ask some Magister for spell lessons seems funny in my head.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Apparitions are rather dim I would not be sure about their ability to use manufactured weapons and even if we could where are we going to keep the dozens of swords and armor sets when they are unsummoned? If they work like hounds they can only be called by spell for a limited about of time
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Actually, we could see if we could spend college favors to get enough enchanters together to study whether or not you can bind enchanted weapons to apparitions, we know something similar is possible due to the Rune of the unknown.
We could do that with a few things actually, expend favors to try to get a group of experts together and work on things we don't have time to look into.
As for the intelligence of apparitions, I think Red Riders can use weapons, and armor cause they often appear with them in the first place. I doubt they could use something like our flask, or a gun, but then again who knows.
 
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French Cowboy said:
Actually, we could see if we could spend college favors to get enough enchanters together to study whether or not you can bind enchanted weapons to apparitions, we know something similar is possible due to the sword of the unknown.
We could do that with a few things actually, expend favors to try to get a group of experts together and work on things we don't have time to look into.
As for the intelligence of apparitions, I think Red Riders can use weapons, and armor cause they often appear with them in the first place. I doubt they could use something like our flask, or a gun, but then again who knows.
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  1. While we can spend college favors for help with research, but in a limited manner, we always have to spend some of our AP, so everything we might spend CF on that requires a group of experts would also require a lobby to spend one or more actions and as someone who spent I think the better part of 14 turns arguing for Ulgu Tongs I can say with come confidence that is not easy
  2. Red Riders look like they have armor as part of their beings, just like the Handmaidens look like they are dressed in rags, that is not the same thing as them being able to use material weapons
 
Tobtorp said:
Edit: also having a lady Magister ask some Magister for spell lessons seems funny in my head.
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Mathilde is very young as far as lord magisters go, and there is no taboo on not knowing everything within the grey college. We learned about waystones from a perpetual.

Tobtorp said:
I still don't understand what ulgu tongs are supposed to do... Not saying their bad just I got no clue...
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They were supposed to see if it was possible to use a principle behind necromancy (i.e. use Shyish to Control Dhar), except that we were trying to substitute Dhar for any of the other seven winds, and Shyish for Ulgu.
Or, in other words, can you wield another wind without creating Dhar within your soul (which is much more corrupting)?
The answer is yes, you can, but the result still creates external Dhar when the winds mix.

So the concept was scrapped, because intentionally creating Dhar is an abominable act forbidden by the articles.
 
IronFist said:
Mathilde is very young as far as lord magisters go, and there is no taboo on not knowing everything within the grey college. We learned about waystones from a perpetual.


They were supposed to see if it was possible to use a principle behind necromancy (i.e. use Shyish to Control Dhar), except that we were trying to substitute Dhar for any of the other seven winds, and Shyish for Ulgu.
Or, in other words, can you wield another wind without creating Dhar within your soul (which is much more corrupting)?
The answer is yes, you can, but the result still creates external Dhar when the winds mix.

So the concept was scrapped, because intentionally creating Dhar is an abominable act forbidden by the articles.
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Right, that makes sense. Though we did know two winds being forced together created dhar beforehand.

And I didn't mean that there is a taboo on learning but that the idea that one of the top 6 of your order wants you to teach her. Can make a Magister nervous I feel.
 
Tobtorp said:
Right, that makes sense. Though we did know two winds being forced together created dhar beforehand.
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Mathilde was hoping to use the natural repulsion between the pure winds to do something useful.

Doing any useful spellcasting with the secondary wind requires that you overcome that repulsion with brute force. mathilde's finesse approach resulted in the winds thrashing about and trying to get free from the ulgu "cage".

The only practically useful, non abominable thing that came out of that experiment is shepherding the winds towards Eike so she could feel them individually.
 
pucflek said:
We can't create battle magics that have direct ruinous damage potential because we don't have requisitive traits. At least i can't think of a way to make mist do that.
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Wasn't the Fogkill spell (acid Fog, I can't remember what we named it, basic idea was to take the damage of the shadow death spell and replace the vector of shadow with the vector of fog) okayed, or did that change?

Also, if not .... answers unchanged. If we can't make Fog's/Clouds kill people directly .... I'd still rather make our own Battle Magic even if it's not direct damage stuff than learn a pre-made Direct Damage Battle Magic spell.
 
Quest said:
List of Approved spells
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We got this in the Player created information tab, Might be out of date, but still a source.

Found a variation of Choking Fog and something that is a mix of burning shadows and Fog, probably the acid fog idea mentioned, so direct damage fog spells are viable.
 
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seekingflame said:
We got this in the Player created information tab, Might be out of date, but still a source.

Found a variation of Choking Fog and something that is a mix of burning shadows and Fog, probably the acid fog idea mentioned, so direct damage fog spells are viable.
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Probably is. I'm heading to sleep soon, but if there is any approved spell you want me to put there, quote the spell and @ me. I'll add it in the morning.
 
The 'Cloudkill' spell is a bit of an exception to the spell crafting rules.

Boney said:
I think that was approved before I'd properly solidified the prerequisites for spell creation. It's grandfathered in for now but that's gonna change in a hurry if it keeps being pointed at as a precedent.
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We can make it, but don't use it as a precedent or poke at it too much.
 
Tobtorp said:
And I didn't mean that there is a taboo on learning but that the idea that one of the top 6 of your order wants you to teach her. Can make a Magister nervous I feel.
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Mathilde gave her Waaagh and Peace lecture to not just Algard but also the Heads of the Bright and Amethyst Colleges; she's also took the Skaven expert title when she was just a Magister. Even the head diplomat in Luitpold's council asked Mathilde's opinion on Dawi politics.

Now that multilateral expertise certainly was a big part of why Mathilde got made Lady Magister so early but even ordinary Magisters can have more expertise in a certain topic that is unmatched by any LM; after all LMs are few in number and can't be experts in everything under the sun.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
can't be experts in everything under the sun.
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No, but more importantly we can bluff that we are, and read up about it after the fact. ;)
Boney said:
Library:
Gives a bonus where appropriate to the topics it covers. +1 is the default bonus, with +1 for Extensive and +1 Obscure / +2 Antiquarian / +3 Esoteric for non-stacking rarity levels. Each bonus can apply once per race/country the books are from, as long as they have a solid knowledge base on the subject.
Each +1 bonus costs 50 gold crowns, or local equivalent. Books on magic will cost College Favour as well as gold, books by Dwarves will cost Dwarf Favour as well as gold. The cost is 1 favour for Obscure and Antiquarian levels, 2 favours for Esoteric.
You have established a relationship with the foremost bookseller of Barak Varr, and can acquire books from the Empire through them.


PUBLIC

Civilized Realms
The Empire of Man +7 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
The Eonir of Laurelorn +15 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven / Extensive and Esoteric Eonir
The Karaz Ankor +12 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven
The Kingdom of Kislev +9 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven
The Ten Kingdoms of Ulthuan +2 - Extensive Dwarven
The We +1 - Imperial

Sciences and Arts
Agriculture +2 - Extensive Dwarven
Anatomy +9 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive Dwarven
Architecture +2 - Extensive Dwarven
Chemistry +2 - Extensive Dwarven
Engineering +14 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive Dwarven / Extensive and Esoteric Skaven (T)
Geography +2 - Extensive Dwarven
Linguistics +11 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven
Textiles +5 - Extensive and Esoteric Eonir
Trade +7 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Dwarven

Geography
Cathay +5 - Extensive and Esoteric Cathayan (T)
The Chaos Wastes +8 - Extensive and Antiquarian Imperial / Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven
The Dark Lands +7 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Dragon Isles +1 - Dwarven
The Great Steppes +4 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Mountains of Mourn +3 - Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
The Old World +2 - Extensive Dwarven

Flora and Fauna
Arthropods +7 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Canines +5 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial
Dragons +8 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven
Rodents and Mustelids +5 - Imperial / Extensive and Antiquarian Skaven
Natural Toxins +7 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Dwarven

War and Combat
Greatswords +7 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Brettonian
Logistics +1 - Skaven
Tactics +1 - Skaven

Gods and Divinity - Old World Pantheon
Ulric, God of Winter and Wolves +2 - Extensive Imperial
Morr, God of Death and Dreams +2 - Extensive Imperial
Ranald, God of Trickery and Thieves +7 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian
Minor Gods of the Empire +5 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial

Gods and Divinity - Dwarven Ancestor Gods
Grungni +1 - Dwarven
Valaya +1 - Dwarven
Grimnir +1 - Dwarven
Thungni +1 - Dwarven
Smednir +1 - Dwarven
Morgrim +1 - Dwarven
Gazul +1 - Dwarven


COLLEGIATE

Magical Theory
Aethyr - The Warp +2 - Extensive
Sevir - The Winds of Magic +7 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Qhaysh - High Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Ghyran - Life Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Shyish - Death Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Ghur - Beast Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Chamon - Metal Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Aqshy - Fire Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Azyr - Celestial Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Hysh - Light Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Ulgu - Shadow Magic +5 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial
Divine Magic +4 - Extensive and Antiquarian Imperial
Enchantment +5 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial
Familiars +2 - Extensive Imperial

Enemies of Man
Beastmen +6 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven
Chaos Dwarves +8 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven / Skaven (Only Esoteric)
Daemons +4 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Greenskins +9 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive Dwarven
Hobgoblin Khanates +4 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Marauder Tribes +4 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Ogre Kingdoms +4 - Imperial / Extensive and Obscure Dwarven
Skaven +13 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven / Skaven
Undead +7 - Extensive and Obscure Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive Dwarven
Vampires +6 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Bretonnian / Extensive Dwarven

Gods and Divinity - Cadai and Cytherai
Hekarti, the Hydra Queen +5 - Extensive and Esoteric Eonir
Loec, the Shadow Dancer +5 - Extensive and Esoteric Eonir


RESTRICTED

Dark Magic
Chaos Sorcery +4 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Necromancy +2 - Extensive Imperial
Waaagh Magic +4 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Skaven Warp Magic +4 - Extensive Imperial / Extensive Dwarven
Warpstone +9 - Extensive Dwarven & Imperial / Extensive and Esoteric Skaven

Advanced Magic
Rune Magic +2 - Extensive Imperial
Power Stones +2 - Extensive Imperial
Waystones and Henges +10 - Extensive and Esoteric Imperial / Extensive and Esoteric Dwarven

Otherwise Unsuitable for Public Display
Overly Vulgar Romance +4 - Druchii / Eonir / Extensive Skaven


BOOKSHELF IN MATHILDE'S BEDROOM

Romance +11 - Extensive Imperial / Bretonnian / Dwarven / Extensive Eonir / Extensive Druchii / Extensive and Obscure Skaven
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Redshirt Army said:
I much prefer the Pendulum for Mathilde - she's all about edge cases and the edge of a sword, so it's significantly more thematically congruent.

Plus there's my long-term plan to make Mathilde a sick-ass anime character:
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Cool as Getsuga Tensho is, we don't have a trait for it. Warrior of Fog only lets us reveal and conceal troop movements.

storryeater said:
...Honestly, all things considered, it's telling that the answer MIGHT actually be yes.
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Nope. Leadership 10 is as high as it goes on tabletop and the Master Rune of Kragg the Grim already hits at Strength 10.


Learning or inventing more battle magic is bad unless we do the apparition stuff. Nothing except the apparition stuff is worth the miscast potential, no matter that a perfectly placed Penumbral Pendulum on a line of troops is the singularly most satisfying thing to do in Total Warhammer.
 
The logic of learning battle magic spells also run contrary to the current leading vote or Mathilde's actions in the previous arc, people voted Leader I assumed to harass Drycha so as to not let her attack people from stealth and no battle magic would make it more expedient. If we wanted to work to improve our chances of success in retrospect we should vote on improving Mathilde's assassination or swording skills.

(The previous arc had the same issue where we only voted to sword the dude in the end so the improvement take away from that would be the same plus maybe brushing up more on Mathildes's information gathering skills and put more resources and actions into the EIC information network)
 
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