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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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It's actually kinda arguable which is the worst Shadowmark in 2nd edition—forgettable means that every NPC has to make an intelligence test just to remember you, but unnatural shadow has a -10% fellowship malus and causes the unwashed masses to believe that you are some kind of demon, which combined is the sort of thing that can really derail campaigns as you fail to convince them otherwise (due to the fellowship penalty) and then they try to burn you at the stake, so you defend yourself, and then they call in the witch hunters and now suddenly your players are fugitives on the run all because of single failed diplomacy check.

French Cowboy said:
I didn't know it still caught fire, that's hilarious.
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That part of the town is now known as "the Fire Quarter".
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Learning battle magic is no more likely to create Arcanr marks the. Every other thing we will be doing magical as a wizard leading an magical experiment.
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Yes, Mathilde has some baseline chance of getting more marks from her current usage level of magic. But learning and regularly using Battle Magic will still increase her chance of getting Arcane marks overall, because learning BM increases the number of rolls we will make, and the law of large numbers means Mathilde will get those marks sooner rather than later. If Mathilde makes X rolls now that have a chance of getting marks, then learning standard BM will increase that to X+Y, where Y is the number of additional rolls from BM usage.

Swantree said:
What dice are we rolling for Mark of Ulgu? An 80 above on a 1d100?

Prior to that is a miscast though, which is 10%?

We also get arcane marks from extremely high rolls right or is that just mastery?
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As I understand it, on a crit we roll a 1d6 for consequences. If that 1d6 rolls a mark, then we roll again to determine which mark.
 
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Part of my thing is that, if we are going to take the time and the risk of learning and using Battle Magic .... I'd rather just create our own.

It's more dangerous and time consuming, true, but I'd prefer to add new magics to our college than learn old ones.

Edit: Speaking of which, we still need to codify Rite of Way.
 
King Arthur said:
Part of my thing is that, if we are going to take the time and the risk of learning and using Battle Magic .... I'd rather just create our own.

It's more dangerous and time consuming, true, but I'd prefer to add new magics to our college than learn old ones.

Edit: Speaking of which, we still need to codify Rite of Way.
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See, we can master spells which we've invented and making our own combat magic is both more time consuming and way more dangerous than learning from another. Also, okham's mindrazor on Moonlit Wit seems like it would be stupidly powerful.
though yeah, making our own magic would be cool, what with the Gehenna's hounds secret and our capacity to make powerful fog spells.
 
King Arthur said:
It's more dangerous and time consuming, true, but I'd prefer to add new magics to our college than learn old ones.
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We can't create battle magics that have direct ruinous damage potential because we don't have requisitive traits. At least i can't think of a way to make mist do that.

So if we want something we kinda need Pit of Shades and Penumbral Pendulum. The pros to that is that those two are direct manipulation of the dimensional barrier, which would finally give us some practical experience with it and add it to our knowledge of magic.
 
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French Cowboy said:
See, we can master spells which we've invented and making our own combat magic is both more time consuming and way more dangerous than learning from another. Also, okham's mindrazor on Moonlit Wit seems like it would be stupidly powerful.
though yeah, making our own magic would be cool, what with the Gehenna's hounds secret and our capacity to make powerful fog spells.
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I mean, if we're going by mechanics, Mindrazor on Branulhune would do nothing or actively be worse.


What I'd really like to codify is the Shadow Dagger mastery- maybe not as flashy, but it'll also be in use by more than a single-digit number of wizards.
 
mathymancer said:
It's not like using battle magic somehow removes the danger of getting into fights, it just (arguably) decreases it in exchange for adding additional kinds of danger. A bad miscast can make a battle harder by causing daemons to manifest, or by injuring Mathilde on top of anything the enemy does. Battle magic can be dangerous even if it works well: critting with our sword is great, critting while casting battle magic could permanently disfigure our soul.

The main advantage battle magic has over stabbing people is its scale: Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades are things that can destroy large enemy units, while the sword is a more personal weapon. But if what we're worried about is Mathilde getting into duels or going on assassination missions, I'm not at all sure that battle magic is superior to improving our sword fighting.
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We already have battle magic in a bottle for when we want larger scale destruction.
 
fictionfan said:
We already have battle magic in a bottle for when we want larger scale destruction.
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A one time use fireball is great and all, but not enough to end a battle on its own. And it leaves us pretty vulnerable after its use. Also, relying on artifacts to work is dangerous, as I doubt we're the only one who can prevent others from using their trinkets.

Mopman43 said:
I mean, if we're going by mechanics, Mindrazor on Branulhune would do nothing or actively be worse.


What I'd really like to codify is the Shadow Dagger mastery- maybe not as flashy, but it'll also be in use by more than a single-digit number of wizards.
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Which mechanics? I can't actually find the numeric advantage of Branulhune anywhere, like on Mathilde's character sheet.
I think we might want to advance the shadow dagger to a shadow sword first, cause I know a lot of people wanted to use it to pass on our sword style once we master it.
 
French Cowboy said:
Which mechanics? I can't actually find the numeric advantage of Branulhune anywhere, like on Mathilde's character sheet.
I think we might want to advance the shadow dagger to a shadow sword first, cause I know a lot of people wanted to use it to pass on our sword style once we master it.
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  1. Branulhune uses the rune of Kragg the Grim which on tabletop hits with STR 10, that is as high as it goes, by contrast mindrazor hits with the strength of your leadership, for most beings on tabletop LD is a lot higher and STR, and many heroes have it at the max of 10. If Mathilde is one of those heroes that casting Mindrazor on her sword will make it... just as good in another way. If she is not than it will make the sword worse
  2. Shadow daggers used normally is a Fiendishly Complicated spell, it is only safe to cast at Magic 8, which is well into magister range. It will be a long time before Eike is that good and that is even assuming she wants to use a sword. She might dislike the weapon, she might refuse to shed blood, in any case it is way too soon to make any decisions with regards to the spell that could maybe used to teach her something in a decade or so.
 
French Cowboy said:
See, we can master spells which we've invented and making our own combat magic is both more time consuming and way more dangerous than learning from another. Also, okham's mindrazor on Moonlit Wit seems like it would be stupidly powerful.
though yeah, making our own magic would be cool, what with the Gehenna's hounds secret and our capacity to make powerful fog spells.
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Boney said:
Three runes are carved into it, and the only reason they do not blaze with radiance is they have been specifically made not to, and as you take in the amount of power it contains you need to remind yourself it was made by the eldest Runesmith of the Karaz Ankor to keep from carefully putting it down and then fleeing in the opposite direction - and, to your fading horror and rising delight, it's still absorbing more, and you watch traces of Ulgu get pulled from the surface of your skin to feed the power of the blade.
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I'm not sure putting battle magic on Branalhune is a good idea. A battle magic that tries to make that Runesword do something else will probably get eaten by it.

French Cowboy said:
Which mechanics? I can't actually find the numeric advantage of Branulhune anywhere, like on Mathilde's character sheet.
I think we might want to advance the shadow dagger to a shadow sword first, cause I know a lot of people wanted to use it to pass on our sword style once we master it.
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Using the Table top mechanics, Branalhune has Mathilde strike at Strength 10, while Ockham's mindrazor replaces Her Strength (4) with her Leadership (8). Branalhune is better than Mindrazor that way.
The Shadow sword would have to be a modified version of our codified shadow dagger mastery... i.e. a long way away.
 
silentorphan said:
We rely on the magic greatsword, the coin of Ranald, etc. all the time; I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying we shouldn't use them anymore?
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Even if the magic of the sword doesn't work, it's still a sharp metal stick. We could still use it to stab the khorne worshipper.
There are likely effects out there similar to the rune of superior skill, which would nullify the effects of equipment but not prevent us from casting. And so knowing some spells which can do a lot of damage is still fairly important, and not replaced by the flask we got.
IronFist said:
Using the Table top mechanics, Branalhune has Mathilde strike at Strength 10, while Ockham's mindrazor replaces Her Strength (4) with her Leadership (8). Branalhune is better than Mindrazor that way.
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Interesting, I didn't know the exact mechanics of it. Does mindrazor only work on melee? Or would it have the ablity to effect our revolvers too?
DragonParadox said:
Shadow daggers used normally is a Fiendishly Complicated spell, it is only safe to cast at Magic 8, which is well into magister range. It will be a long time before Eike is that good and that is even assuming she wants to use a sword. She might dislike the weapon, she might refuse to shed blood, in any case it is way too soon to make any decisions with regards to the spell that could maybe used to teach her something in a decade or so.
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I was thinking that we'd offer it as a potential sword style for all of the grey college not just Eike. I think there are quite a few magisters out there who would benefit from picking up our eventual swordstyle. Though yeah, we'd probably have to codify our shadow dagger spell first.
 
mathymancer said:
Mindrazor creates weapons with strength equal to the courage of their user. Branulhune delivers impacts as strong as the impact of a cannonball. "Is Mathilde's bravery sharper than a cannonball" is a very strange question, but I think the answer might be no.
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...Honestly, all things considered, it's telling that the answer MIGHT actually be yes.

I mean, she is pragmatic all considered, but we should not forget that this is Mathilde "I am going to steal from Mork and Slaanesh" Weber. Mathilde "I am going to risk becoming the Horned Rat's number one enemy" Weber. Mathilde "I am disappointed I can't just risk going to Dum alone to sate my curiosity because I must consider the expedition's needs" Weber. Mathilde "I am going to fight a greater demon and a champion of Khorne with no hesitation even though I am outmatched" Weber. Mathilde "I am going to risk losing my life to save the Dawi on the sunken ship by doing two very unadvisable things for wizards (risk fusing into the wall and chain cast) and act like it's no big deal to anyone who asks" Weber. And unless there is an upset in the vote, soon-to-be Mathilde "I am going to attack the being that created a huge cloud of Ulgu" Weber.

Yes, her pragmatism trumps her bravery quite often, but when the pragmatic choice is to be brave and risk her life, she is stone cold about it.
 
French Cowboy said:
Even if the magic of the sword doesn't work, it's still a sharp metal stick. We could still use it to stab the khorne worshipper.
There are likely effects out there similar to the rune of superior skill, which would nullify the effects of equipment but not prevent us from casting. And so knowing some spells which can do a lot of damage is still fairly important, and not replaced by the flask we got.

Interesting, I didn't know the exact mechanics of it. Does mindrazor only work on melee? Or would it have the ablity to effect our revolvers too?

I was thinking that we'd offer it as a potential sword style for all of the grey college not just Eike. I think there are quite a few magisters out there who would benefit from picking up our eventual swordstyle. Though yeah, we'd probably have to codify our shadow dagger spell first.
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  1. Mindrazor only works with melee, it literally conjures a sword that cuts the soul, that is what the name comes from
  2. That would take a lot of AP for little effect that we could actually see.
 
French Cowboy said:
Interesting, I didn't know the exact mechanics of it. Does mindrazor only work on melee? Or would it have the ablity to effect our revolvers too?
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You could probably get an up to date answer from @Codex. I haven't looked in the books for a long time, but my guess would be No, it only applies to melee attacks.
The potential of the spell is wasted on a single target: you could make a whole company of imperial swordsmen (Ld 7) strike harder than the average dragon.
 
storryeater said:
...Honestly, all things considered, it's telling that the answer MIGHT actually be yes.

I mean, she is pragmatic all considered, but we should not forget that this is Mathilde "I am going to steal from Mork and Slaanesh" Weber. Mathilde "I am going to risk becoming the Horned Rat's number one enemy" Weber. Mathilde "I am disappointed I can't just risk going to Dum alone to sate my curiosity because I must consider the expedition's needs" Weber. Mathilde "I am going to fight a greater demon and a champion of Khorne with no hesitation even though I am outmatched" Weber. Mathilde "I am going to risk losing my life to save the Dawi on the sunken ship by doing two very unadvisable things for wizards (risk fusing into the wall and chain cast) and act like it's no big deal to anyone who asks" Weber. And unless there is an upset in the vote, soon-to-be Mathilde "I am going to attack the being that created a huge cloud of Ulgu" Weber.

Yes, her pragmatism trumps her bravery quite often, but when the pragmatic choice is to be brave and risk her life, she is stone cold about it.
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In tabletop at least, literally unbreakable units, such as slayers, have LD of 10. Which is the Strength bonus Kragg's Rune gives.

Boney might not be using the exact tabletop effects here, but we don't have much else to go off of.
 
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IronFist said:
You could probably get an up to date answer from @Codex. I haven't looked in the books for a long time, but my guess would be No, it only applies to melee attacks.
The potential of the spell is wasted on a single target: you could make a whole company of imperial swordsmen (Ld 7) strike harder than the average dragon.
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8th Edition specifies only Close Combat attacks.
 
One thing that would be pretty cool to make would be a single target version of the spell.

Going by TT mechanics, the way I'd have it work is similar to 40k's mind war: upon inflicting a wound, roll 1D6+Ld for the attacker and the defender. If the attacker gets the highest score, the defender takes wounds equal to the difference. If not, nothing happens to the attacker.

At that point it would be something worth combining (mechanically) with Branalhune.
 
DragonParadox said:
That would take a lot of AP for little effect that we could actually see.
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It's one of the long-term plans I saw that I actually quite like, not because it's efficient or even practical, but just because it's cool.
And while it could have little effect, it would raise our standing in the colleges, be worth quite a few college favors and probably put us in touch with some of the rising stars among the magisters of the grey college.
Also, the dwarfs would probably be inundated with orders for Rune of the Unknown swords.
 
French Cowboy said:
It's one of the long-term plans I saw that I actually quite like, not because it's efficient or even practical, but just because it's cool.
And while it could have little effect, it would raise our standing in the colleges, be worth quite a few college favors and probably put us in touch with some of the rising stars among the magisters of the grey college.
Also, the dwarfs would probably be inundated with orders for Rune of the Unknown swords.
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At the moment we have more CF than we know that to do with. Do you have any use in mind that will need more of the stuff than we would get from papers?
 
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