Lopezelpesado
Space worm best worm.
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MMhhm honey based magic would be useful against bears, then trow bees at em. Angry bees. Angry shadow bees.
Invent Angry shadow bee spell.
Invent Angry shadow bee spell.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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You didn't in the 1600s. Edited the post to be more correct.
So... assuming we get another action after all this is done what do you guys think we should do with it? I know Ice witches are favored and more fire power is never bad, but as long as that Waystone stays disconnected I suspect they may not be operating at full power and even if they are... well I would prefer to know where that Boyar went off to since he is mixed up in all this and could be a wild card in the battle if he is... what the wiki spoiler stuff hints he is.
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A while back, I asked in the thread what Valten was like and got the answer that he was actually pretty boring, but I finally reached his first scene in End Times.
I like him. He's... strangely refreshing in this setting?
In any other setting, Valten would probably be a bland piece of white bread. Not really interesting or engaging. But in such a gritty, dark and complex setting, having a guy who's so simple and just... good. It's strangely comforting.
I can see why some people wouldn't like him, but I think he's sweet actually. I can't believe I'm actually enjoying a "Chosen One" plot.
I like him. He's... strangely refreshing in this setting?
In any other setting, Valten would probably be a bland piece of white bread. Not really interesting or engaging. But in such a gritty, dark and complex setting, having a guy who's so simple and just... good. It's strangely comforting.
I can see why some people wouldn't like him, but I think he's sweet actually. I can't believe I'm actually enjoying a "Chosen One" plot.
The Boyar is one I also want to do - aside from the insight into our enemies motives which could be helpful in this fight, our original purpose here was to get answers, and I would like for those answers to be as detailed as possible. And since we're going to talk to the Tsarevich this turn we might even be able to get official authority to question the guy.
That just leaves getting the Tzar, scouting, and getting the Ice Witches. Unless the actions we take this turn lead to some follow up actions we feel like doing, the Ice Witches seem like the best one; I don't particularly want the Tzar and his heir fighting on the same battlefield, and the reasons why we shouldn't scout have been gone over at length already. Maybe the Ice Witches would be hindered by the Waystone business, but on the flip side maybe they'll be able to counteract it better than Mathilde and throw a spanner in the enemy's plan.
So if we get one more action, Boyar. If we get two, Boyar and Ice Witches.
I wonder if Boris has heard that story and how he will feel about us being able to get his Kreml guard to the fight in time? From what I can tell the Boyars seem to think that them arriving in time is the type of thing that would require spells cast by a Lady Magister. Normally I wouldn't consider that being enough for anything major, but Boris is the type of man who would and did spend every cent to remake kislev entirely if it would make it stronger. This would be one more example of Mathy having something which could be great for Kislev if he could get it out in a substantial way.
If we are able to come out of this well with Boris and the Ice witches do we have any plans for bringing in Kislev to the project? Maybe offer to make somewhere in Kislev a test site once we have something? If we could manage to reduce Praag to pre-Great War levels that would be one hell of a symbol.
Personally I want more Ice Witches in part because I see this as an opportunity for networking we lucked into. Not like we are going to get a better chance to improve ties with Kislev without spending more AP.
While we are in Kislev I wonder if we will be able to find out who Ranald chose for that position in Kislev he offered Mathilde? I mean maybe he had no others whom he could call on with her experience so he did not go through with it but it would be cool if he did, even just a few lines telling us if the reconciliation of the gods is on track. Ironically enough i think the very practical people of Kislef would actually make good ranaldites.
'You stabbed the Chaos warrior in the kidneys while he was out quaffing drink? Good, one less servant of Za. You want Ungols to be free of bad Gospodar noble, Ungols already free to use bows, if he's that bad he'll have a hunting accident or get eaten by bear maybe'.
'You stabbed the Chaos warrior in the kidneys while he was out quaffing drink? Good, one less servant of Za. You want Ungols to be free of bad Gospodar noble, Ungols already free to use bows, if he's that bad he'll have a hunting accident or get eaten by bear maybe'.
That depends on the extent to which gods talk to each other and for that matter the extent to which gods can perceive the past. For all we know Ursun could just hit up Ranald with a warp skype call, or for that matter it might be that gods can scry the past well enough to see what happened first hand. It is very hard for us to guess the limits of divinity from a mortal's eye view.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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Er, I think Lampshade is talking about Ranald's history with the pantheon of Kislev that the conversation with Liljana talked about, that there were a lot of gods in the family, then Ranald happened, then there weren't.
Asking what perspective Ursun, Dazh, and Tor have on that.
I know, my point was that we do not know to what point the gods can be limited to a subjective understanding of the matter.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Two different people can have all the same information and come away with different feelings on the subject.
Oh sure , but 'only heard it from the Widow's perspective' would imply at least to me that they did not know all the information outside of a biased source.
Hmm.... There is one question which is nagging me somewhat since the Kislev arc and the current discussion of Ursun, though it may be a bit out topic . Are there any examples of non Dwarf Gods existing in the physical World like Ursun did in the Total Warhammer 3? If so, any idea on how Gods could or have physically incarnated into the World which does not involve gigantic plots like Hijacking the Vortex in Warhammer 2 to incarnate the Great Horned Rat? Along with that I have a question on do we have any idea on Why the Chaos Gods or the Horned Rat are able to make so many daemons as they do and why Order Gods can't seem to do so?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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Gork's Foot briefly appears for the Foot of Gork spell.
The one case of an incarnate goddess that springs to mind is Myrmidia, who was said to be a goddess of Beauty and Civilization before he came into the world in mortal guise and so suffered for it that she arose again as a patron of soldiers and ultimately as he ruler of a great empire of Estalia and Tilea, before being killed at the last, her realm broken
As to why chaos is stronger than order the simple answer is we do not know because asking fundamental questions about Chaos has a tendency to drive one mad. That said there are theories, the silmpest of which is that the dark gods represent far more primal urges within the warp and so can harvest power from far more acts.
In this paradigm when say a pious Sigmarite kills and orc in close combat that would empower Sigmar yes, since it is echoing his deeds, but it would also empower Khorne since he is the god of war, all war everywhere. Of course that leaves beings like the Great Horned Rat which are not Great Gods of Chaos and yet still seem stronger than the Order Gods. In the case of the Rat that might simply because there are more skaven than anything else sapient on the planet put together, bar the chaos warriors at the poles.
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While you are correct that Gork"s Foot does briefly appear with that spell, I was mainly think on Gods who seem to be able to be in the Physical World for long periods of time like for Example Ursun or Myrmidia as Paradox mentioned.
True, Myrmidia is a case of a God incarnating into the physical realm if true, which does spring the question that if she was able to so, why we do not see many other examples of Gods incarnating whether good or bad , such as Stromfels, Mannan or other potential Gods I currently do not remember either to encourage worship of them for more power or to help them, since we seen for example Stromfels able to basically instantly kill Wolf the priest, regardless of distance in the exorcism, indicating the large amount of power they have. Although admittedly the possibility exist that there are major drawbacks towards incarnating into physical form. And Chaos is possibly able to do so due the fact they can harvest power from much wider amount of sources and the Great Horned Rat can do create daemons because his Major source of power the skaven, population is gigantic as you mentioned. Hope this is understandable.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
How official it is is debatable, but there's the mammoth god Angkor.
Basically, there was a pdf hosted on Forgeworld that had lore and a character entry for an entity known as Angkor, Father of Mammoths.
Never officially published in any book or magazine I'm aware of, and the website stopped hosting it awhile back.
So you know, dubious.
So, one thing I was worried about, what if our intervention is making thigs potentially worst for Kislev? Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
It's possible that is we didn't come to Kislev the Athen Lauren warhost would have only heard of a minor fight in Kislev occuring before Boris or his father arrived. The Athen Lauren host having buggered off once their objective was accomplished. Depending on what said objective was perhaps the only losses would be the Boyar's forces and perhaps one Ice Witch.
Now, we might be escalating unnescesarilly the conflict by piercing the Uglu veil and exposing the wood elves machinations. We don't know that the wood elves have nefarious goals, only that their methods seem to be. Chaos seems involved but it might be because Athen Lauren is actively interfering with a Chaos plot.
This is another reason why scouting is so important. We need to know more since we at least have some measure of influence if not responsability for the conseequence of our actions.
Now, I am open to waiting for Boris before scouting and do it with other mundane scouts to act as decoys for us (although my preference is to do it now alone and reduce risks to others), but I do think just letting Kislev send a force blindly into a immense forest is bad.
People are kind of downplaying the consequences of not scouting I believe. Sure there is risk in scouting, but then :
- it reduces risks for all forces entering the forest subsequently (of which we will probably be part of),
- allows for the possiblility of avoiding conflict if it seems possible and,
- allows us to interfere through sabotage before the bloddy day.
All in all, I think it's worth it to risk one Mathilde's life to reduce future risk to the Emperor, Boris, the Ice Witches, Kislev forces AND ourselves (since we probably will accompany the host into the forest). Better scout now when attention might be lower than later when an army is entering the forest and Athen Loren will be expecting scouts and probably acting to keep us in the dark.
[X] Scout the Shirokij
It's possible that is we didn't come to Kislev the Athen Lauren warhost would have only heard of a minor fight in Kislev occuring before Boris or his father arrived. The Athen Lauren host having buggered off once their objective was accomplished. Depending on what said objective was perhaps the only losses would be the Boyar's forces and perhaps one Ice Witch.
Now, we might be escalating unnescesarilly the conflict by piercing the Uglu veil and exposing the wood elves machinations. We don't know that the wood elves have nefarious goals, only that their methods seem to be. Chaos seems involved but it might be because Athen Lauren is actively interfering with a Chaos plot.
This is another reason why scouting is so important. We need to know more since we at least have some measure of influence if not responsability for the conseequence of our actions.
Now, I am open to waiting for Boris before scouting and do it with other mundane scouts to act as decoys for us (although my preference is to do it now alone and reduce risks to others), but I do think just letting Kislev send a force blindly into a immense forest is bad.
People are kind of downplaying the consequences of not scouting I believe. Sure there is risk in scouting, but then :
- it reduces risks for all forces entering the forest subsequently (of which we will probably be part of),
- allows for the possiblility of avoiding conflict if it seems possible and,
- allows us to interfere through sabotage before the bloddy day.
All in all, I think it's worth it to risk one Mathilde's life to reduce future risk to the Emperor, Boris, the Ice Witches, Kislev forces AND ourselves (since we probably will accompany the host into the forest). Better scout now when attention might be lower than later when an army is entering the forest and Athen Loren will be expecting scouts and probably acting to keep us in the dark.
[X] Scout the Shirokij
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K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
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Scouting is important, but also very dangerous. Let's throw disposable bodies at the problem instead of risking ourselves in an environment we're not adapted to scout in. At the end of the day, Mathilde ´s survival is more important to me than the army's.
[X] Scout the Shirokij
Considering Chaos's interest, I want a handle on the Plant people's target. This seems the best way to get that.
Considering Chaos's interest, I want a handle on the Plant people's target. This seems the best way to get that.
I mean, disposable bodies might just have no impact at all except to waste human lives. Athen Loren probably has a plan in place to stay in the dark and they probably have accounted for mundane scouts. The updates does say that we are the only ones with a chance.
[ ] Scout the Shirokij
Of the forces here, only you would have any chance of moving unseen through the Shirokij. Use this to try to scout the enemy.
Also, a weakened Kislev is dangerous for the whole world. If Boris dies due to our reluctance to take risks, it throws much in the air. And as I mentionned, it's not even as if not scouting will neccessarily be less dangerous to Mathilde since we'll probably be accompagny the Kislev warhost into the forest. Which, if we do it blindly, might actually be more dangerous than scouting.
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While in theory that's possible.
Ultimately all you can do is work with what you can see and know.
Action in Ignorance might lose the battle, maybe even a few battles . But Inaction because of ignorance won't win the war.
You have to do what you can at the time, not worry about the vague maybes.
Is it possible that the bad wood dryads are trying to stop some greater evil? Yes.
That doesn't change the fact that they murdered civilians to do it, or even just for the lols.
Eve. If there is a greater problem there, we will be dealing with both groups.
Here is the thing, these are the kind of people who react to someone peeking beneath their magical protection by killing civilians in job lots, in recompense for that alone they deserve the torch, I do not care what they are doing here, or do be more exact I do not care enough to tell the Kislevites, no it's cool forget your murdered citizens. It would at this point be wholly unacceptable to the state of Kiselv to let these people pass, recall the spiel last update about protecting their land
Even if the Elves have a good reason to invade another nations sovereign territory, murder innocent villagers and lure the local nobleman into a trap, that still doesn't make any of the above actually okay or permissable.