Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
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Teclis didn't have to literally invent or teach everything that would be considered part of the Teclisean model. He probably invented very little of it and by this point yeah I expect he's responsible for a increasingly smaller part of their body of knowledge.
That doesn't mean things can't be "Teclisean" anyway though. It just has to mean that the thing being done is either applicable from or at least doesn't contradict its principles. So basically College enchanting is teclisean, and this isn't leaving the frontier of enchanting.
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- Location
- Russia
Do we perhaps understand word "Teclisean" differently? At least for me it means entire base framework based on eight ambient Winds of Magic, including their curdling Dhar, not specifically what Teclis taught to colleges.
The orbs of sorcery were not as far as I can see high magic, you can tell because they are used to power the single wind creations of the colleges. The defining trait of high magic is that it uses more than one wind.
Codex
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My belief on why Windherding doesn't follow Teclisean theory is as follows, and this is MY opinion. I am not Boney:
Elves are perfectly capable of twisting multiple Winds together to form Qhaysh, which has aspects of and can peform the abilities of all the Winds in tandem. What makes Windherding different is that it involves enchanting objects with multiple winds without them ever mixing and turning into either Qhaysh and Dhar. Teclisean studies say that Winds repel each other and if they come into contact improperly they turn into Dhar, but when weaved properly they turn into Qhaysh. Windherding does neither, because it involves applying more than a single Wind into an object with neither Dhar nor Qhaysh occuring yet the object gains properties of the Winds involved.
- Location
- Leeds
Just a note. Mathilde once gave a lecture to a crammed full opera house of nearly every magical tradition because her insights into the Waagh where so revolutionary. She also has several jars of liquid Aether.
Windherding isn't even the biggest impossibility Mathilde has researched.
Couple things that I can think of.
A) High magic is less using multiple winds at once and more a way of binding them together into stable Qhaysh rather than curdling into Dhar. Windherding is believed to be impossible because the theory is that any mixing of the winds other than perfectly balanced Qhaysh should decay into Dhar.
B) Using winds as tweezers to move other winds is a practice only ever used by Necromancers, so anyone who did know how to do it previously was not in a position to advance academic dialogue.
C) Honestly the colleges probably looks at stuff like this and just Dhar stamps it before doing a huge amount of research. The odds of success are extremely low and the risk of corrupting good Magisters is high, and the people who are most able to get together to practice without conflicting duties are the least experienced members of the group.
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Codex
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I'm pretty sure at this point GW are making Qhaysh clearly all eight winds combined together. Not just a few winds combined, all eight. The reason why I say this is that they have invented Yin and Yang, both disciplines of which involve combining four winds together (specific winds too. You can't just throw any wind together), and a distinct third discipline of High Magic. I think they're outright just saying that Qhaysh is eight winds at this point.
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In principle that wouldn't contradict them being High magic, such an artifact could be "programmed" to only issue one wind if it's needed. Wiki page distinctively describes them as single wind though.
My understanding of Qhaysh is that it isn't its own metaphysical entity like Winds and Dhar, it's just the Anoqeyan name for very same interweaving of Winds, which doesn't change their nature, just make them part of a greater whole - that does seem to be point of differences. Currently on search for Boney quotes clarifying the matter.
Also can I type faster for fuck's sake, always being late to the discussion conclusion.
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- Location
- Norway
Maybe, though I think the actual cause of that lecture being so crowded was the note from the grey college secretaries that warned people that the lecture might be cancelled due to seven figures of greenskins, followed by a note that asked people to disregard the previous note on the account of the utter destruction of said greenskins.
- Location
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I wonder if all the attendants were disappointed when she didn't offer any explanation of how the Waaugh was crushed and just gave her lecture as-is.
Note again that Teclis did not say that divine magic was the same as arcane. He said that divine magic was energy drawn from the Aethyr shaped by the priest casting it.
Arcane magic is energy drawn from the Winds of Magic shaped by the wizard casting it.
Under Teclis' description the direct energy source for divine and arcane magic is still different. The point of argument about his description of divine magic is the level of personal involvement of a god in the process of forming a spell, not about where the energy is coming from. He believe that the priest is the one doing that bit of the work, which makes complete sense given the elven view of gods.
Teclis' sword; that he personally made, contains eight mono-Wind powerstones; one for each Wind. He doesn't teach the Colleges how to make them, but he can make them himself.
Remember that high magic is very rare amongst elves. Most elven spellcasters cast spells that only use a single Wind each, even if they can cast spells from multiple different Winds.
Qhaysh is explicitly not a 'thing' according to the explicit statements we have about it. It's a process of using more than one Wind in single spell safely. The Winds retain their distinct identity. The outcome of that looks beautiful and possibly can do things that are more than the sum of its parts, but the Winds have not been transformed; they've just been woven together in a beautiful pattern.
Arcane magic is energy drawn from the Winds of Magic shaped by the wizard casting it.
Under Teclis' description the direct energy source for divine and arcane magic is still different. The point of argument about his description of divine magic is the level of personal involvement of a god in the process of forming a spell, not about where the energy is coming from. He believe that the priest is the one doing that bit of the work, which makes complete sense given the elven view of gods.
Teclis' sword; that he personally made, contains eight mono-Wind powerstones; one for each Wind. He doesn't teach the Colleges how to make them, but he can make them himself.
Remember that high magic is very rare amongst elves. Most elven spellcasters cast spells that only use a single Wind each, even if they can cast spells from multiple different Winds.
Qhaysh is explicitly not a 'thing' according to the explicit statements we have about it. It's a process of using more than one Wind in single spell safely. The Winds retain their distinct identity. The outcome of that looks beautiful and possibly can do things that are more than the sum of its parts, but the Winds have not been transformed; they've just been woven together in a beautiful pattern.
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Yea it's clear that teclis knew how to make power stones before the colleges did, his personal sword literally has eight of them and was made before the colleges existed.
K von Carstein
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That's a bit similar to what we're doing with the Waystones Project.
I've always understood Quaysh as the art of casting spells using at least 2 Wind without Dhar being formed, allowing effects more powerful and precise than mono-Wind spells. I don't think you need all Winds in a spell to call it High Magic.
I just checked the wiki, and there's spells of High Magic that look like they don't use effects from all 8 Winds.
Fortune is Fickle - To normal folk there is no effect, but to those with the witch sight it is obvious that the victim has been set upon by malign spirits made from the very stuff of magic itself. These creatures drag and pull at the unfortunate spellcaster, distracting and confusing his attempts to work magic.
Fiery Convocation - With a single secret word, fire rages and flesh burns.
From Qhaysh
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- Location
- Utrecht
Article: High Magic, also called True Magic or Qhaysh, is the art of using all of the Winds of Magic in harmony and unison, creating some of the most powerful spells known to mortal-kind.
Emphasis mine.
K von Carstein
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Yeah, but doesn't say you have to use each Wind in each spell. I imagine that if you're skilled enough weave all 8?Winds in a spell, you can certainly use less.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
As we all know the wiki is ofcourse the final and absolute arbiter of all things warhammer and definitely not filled with absolute rubbish at least 20-30% of the time. The whole Genevieve debacle for example. The wiki is a good starting point, it's not the end point and frankly you're better off going to the primary sources, and realms of sorcery 2e doesn't paint Qhaysh as all eight winds but multiple winds.
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- Location
- Finland
Not necessarily.
You might need all 8 to create a stable structure, and anything less either unravels or turns in dhar.
That part has no source, I can't tell where the author of the article even got it from.
K von Carstein
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That's a possibility, but we just don't know.
We could just ask an elf wizard in person now. We engage with them socially as Mathilde and everything, something that basic should be common knowledge.
K von Carstein
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True, we should absolutely do that. I want more elves! We've already socialised with plenty of dwarfs, let's go see how the other side does things. Let's sip fine wines in cristal glasses, it will be a refreshingly new experience!
Also, I've always love elves, way more than dwarfs. I would love to see more worldbuilding of them, especially if done by Boney. He has a knack to create societies that actually feel functional and logical, unlike GW…
- Location
- Poland
Isn't our experience with windherding so far perfectly in line with what Teclis passed on? Yes, we put two enchantments into a single objects, but they were distinctly put into different parts of it. And not overlapping was important, as can be seen by Egrimm saving us from our bad roll. Since Teclis can cram 8 wind-charged stones into a hilt of a sword I'm not surprised we could fit two relatively minor spells into a saddle.