K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
To be fair, powerstones are solid blocks of Wind, without interaction between them. It's not active spells or enchantments, like what we did with the saddle.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Yes, but the key word is "so far". Remember, we only made 1 windherding item, and Mathy rolled like crap on that one. We need to keep working to get to the theory breaking level.
- Location
- Finland
I figure it's like one person having 8 magic items, instead of one person casting 8 different spells, which would be closer to what windherded enchantments are like.
- Location
- Poland
Does that have any impact on the repelling nature of the winds? If metal armour is enough to impede the casting of spells through repulsion I can't see how 8 stones filled to brim with the wind would do that any less. And I mean this as a genuine rhetorical question, something we'd need to figure out through hopefully none-explosive experimentation.
At that point though you get into a philosophical discussion what consists a single item. If you enchant two gems with spells and put them into a crown, do they become one item? Can the fact the saddle has distinct parts one can comprehend when weaving the winds contribute to it being possible to put two enchantments? Or is it simply a matter of space and skill, where a good roll (Egrimm) lets you put a spell into a smaller part of the item while a worse roll (Mathilde) requires more space. It could well be the saddle was simply large enough that, for the intent of relatively minor enchantments like ours, it could be considered two items. That would also explain why Teclis can put 8 (assumingly brimming with winds) stones into a hilt of a single sword without the repulsive property causing issues.
Last edited:
- Location
- Leeds
Its both. Waagh Birdmuncha gave her paper credibility and drew the attention of people who wouldn't otherwise Waagh And Peace.
Without it, elves for instance would probably have never touched it on the assumption that any human academia is just touching the coat tails of the Loremasters. However everyone in the audience had probably read the paper and was there looking for the expanded detail and honestly probably made it a society event to some degree.
Nobody was attending a lecture series on a specific paper expecting it to cover stuff that wasn't in the paper at all.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Helmets? Seriously? If anyone should be wearing any armor then it's helmets.
Would there be any point to hiring Melkoth to help us codify the spell? Or is that a non-starter?
Can you add it to those fabled post-game question notes for us? I'm mostly curious if the dice played silly buggers with us again, seamlessly pretending that Alberich is a dedicated Slaanesh cultist without much input or intent from you.
I wasn't trying to imply that Mathilde would be doing anything wrong if she didn't in any way revere any gods other than Ranald (and Manhavok in the past). I just wasn't sure if that was actually the case, given the Empire's polytheism.
As for "going through the motions" that's not quite what I meant. Or at least I don't think so. I just thought that some kind of private yet formal thanks would be appropriate and feel right, given that these gods are actually real and roughly on our side. I am thinking of the equivalent of someone who usually favors other gods crossing their fingers and tossing a coin after a decent streak of luck.
But if that's not how Mathilde rolls then that's not how Mathilde rolls.
Why would they do that? Humans are self-evidently inferior in every way. No reason to lose one's time on them.
Speaking of, we definitely need non-Teclisian casters of noticeable on the Project. Personally I favor the Ice Witches, but Grail Damsels also count I guess.
And Talabheim is a large city with with slums and back alleys and rich people towers. I'm pretty sure if there were a Ranaldopolis then it would have a standing military and some form of hierarchy and bureaucracy as well. And theft and fraud would still be crimes there.
---
I'm curious what would happen if a decent number of people were to start genuinely worshipping a major Elven deity without any current equivalent among Humans. Like Asuryan or Hekarti I guess. Would they, already having gained tonnes of power from Elven worship, immediately be able to bless their Human clergy with a decent spell sortiment? Or is the Elves not getting Divine magic a mutual thing, meaning that they also didn't empower their own gods in the same way?
I get what you're saying. That the main difference is life expectancy which cause a culture valuing different goals and behaviors which leads to a different approach to magic.
I'm pretty sure that that's not the whole story. Elves have dedicated mono-Wind practitioners. Afaik said practitioners do not get Arcane Marks either. And Humans frequently get Arcane Marks, yet it is rarely on purpose. They may be seen as a badge of honor and belonging, but they are inconvenient and unpleasant in practice more often than not.
I think that it was Ulgu Tongs without Dhar that Boney meant as "impossible under Teclisian theory" and not the little bit of pushing around we managed or the ability to carefully stick 2+ Wind energies into a single magic item.
I.e. Mathilde hasn't actually done anything theoretically impossible yet. Just something that would be considered practically impossible.
Well, one thing of note is that the duration of one enchantment keys off of the duration of the other enchantment instead of being based on its own nature (which usually would make it much shorter). But that may just be Egrimm's skill and high roll as opposed to true interaction between the two spells. I.e. maybe the Hysh pommel would be able to give the mental buff that long even if cut off and attached to a mundane saddle.
Sovereign Hunt
A Concentric Circle
- Location
- Bereft of Name
Mathilde is incapable of Divine Spellcasting, and has been ever since she received her first Arcane Mark, but in the meanwhile that hasn't stopped her soul from hosting the essence of several gods for use as an intermediary to achieve some kind of divine intervention effect without her soul curdling into Dhar. It happened with Mork, it happened with Gazul, it's happened several times with Ranald, even as recently as the latest update it's happened with Ulric and Taal. For both of these facts to be true, there must be some level of distinction between "Divine Spellcasting (as done by priests)" and "actual Divine Intervention (as done by gods)". If that is taken to be the case, then Teclis's statements about Divine Spellcasting might not be as entirely incorrect as many people believe.
The Waystone coming on line drew Eonir attention - they were mildly impressed by the Waagh paper but it almost certainly wasn't the deciding factor.
- Location
- Russia
Realms of Sorcery can't decide whether or not Teclis taught the human wizards how to create powerstones. On pages 44-45 where it talks about powerstones in general it says what @Codex cited about Gold Patriarch and whatnot (and also has a sidebar about Teclis' sword). On the other hand the "Power Stone" magic item description on page 206 says "History: The Wizards of the Empire learned the secret of
solidifying magic into Power Stones from Teclis himself.". Maybe he taught them the theory but Habermas was the first who succeeded in practical part?
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They don't wear helmets, just furs from wolves they've killed that they wear as mantles. They also explicitly let free their long unshaven hair as well as their beards. They refuse to use shields, instead wielding giant cavalry hammers that they swing from horse back two handed. Even when dismounted they still use two handed hammers and great axes over shielded combat.
Safety isn't first and foremost in the Ulrican brain. BTW, I emphasize the hair and beard part because the books and sources do. I think it's to maintain an image.
Last edited:
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
That's a good point. I imagine the powerstones are used to fuel one or several multi-Winds spell(s).
I think that just putting the stones on the sword isn't a problem, but you're right that using them is indeed more or less an advanced version of the saddle.
Did someone say Hedgewise?
On the subject of Ice Witches and Grail Damsels, I believe they are going to be very difficult to recruit. Both are the casters of nations outside the Empire, and both have their power tied to regional divinities, so getting them to come to assist a project in Laurelorn is going to be a tough sell. I'm not ruling out getting then on the project at some point, when we'll hopefully have more of an idea of what we're doing and some preliminary results to tempt them with, but at this stage I believe it will be more trouble than it's worth.
Does Necromancy fit into the Teclisian paradigm of magic? Or is it, like Elementalism, completely separate?
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Another problem is that they're both heavily linked to the power structures of their respective countries. The favours and concessions they would ask would be much bigger than what we had to do so far, potentially even up to influencing Imperial politics.
I think it would be better to approach them when we have already reached some conclusions, so we would be in a stronger position.
Édit
Necromancy is the manipulation of Dhar using Shyish as an intermediary so it fits in the Teclisian paradigm, like the Lore of Stealth of Eshin.
Last edited:
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Teclisean paradigm directly covers pure Dhar based Dark Magic, the eight winds and High Magic. I don't know what it says about Dhar combined with other winds, but I'm going to guess little to nothing. When Elves use Dhar, they just use Dhar.
- Location
- Leeds
That elves don't get Arcane Marks even when they are mono wind users is the same reason that eventual High Magic users don't get them while they are learning each wind at the start of their life. Because they are able to spend years and even decades meditating on a spell and searching for errors before they first attempt it.
It is also a outcome of the different way that they practice magic that is enabled because their lifespan.
I agree that humans don't go out of their way to obtain arcane marks.
Elves are the same and infact they can go further to avoid getting marks. We know that getting Arcane Marks is a career killer for aspiring high mages. That tells us it is possible for them to get them and further more it explains a selection bias in High Magic users, and by extension Elven lords and the like.
Now as far as I can remember Elven mono wind users are either
A) Regular folks who just use basic magic to make their life easier and have no interest in further pursuit. We wouldn't know how frequently these people have Arcane marks because they do not feature prominently in the Lore.
B) Religious figures such as the Priests of Vaul who are generally pretty reclusive and see the use of a single wind as part of their worship. These people are probably somewhere between human wizard and elven culture, Arcane marks are a sign you fucked up in the past but not a career ender, however since they're not featured prominently in canon either its hard to gauge.
If someone can back this up or disprove it I'd appreciate it my memory is very spotty.C) Future High Magic users who have to learn each wind individually. As noted previously these people are extremely arcane mark adverse and we can assume that any member who gets one swiftly finds a new career and exits this category presumably into A but also possibly B.
Its very hard to judge from this how common Arcane marks are from this however let me ask a question? How many famous mono wind elves can you think of? That'll let us know the sample size we're trying to pull from to establish how common arcane marks are.
The favour the Damsels asked was for us to help them with a millitary campaign, and that was conditional on us basing our project in Carcassonne. So yeah, they're probably going to ask for a lot.
For those wishing to learn more on the subject of recruiting Damsels I refer you to my upcoming paper, 'On The Lady of The Lake and Why She Might Be Ranald's Daughter But Maybe Not', which will be published in this very thread sometime soon. Be afraid.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In the Tabletop Dragon Mages can only use Lore of Fire and the lore outright says that it's basically an end to their general mage career. They are ill suited to anything but Aqshy because of their temperament:That elves don't get Arcane Marks even when they are mono wind users is the same reason that eventual High Magic users don't get them while they are learning each wind at the start of their life. Because they are able to spend years and even decades meditating on a spell and searching for errors before they first attempt it.
It is also a outcome of the different way that they practice magic that is enabled because their lifespan.
I agree that humans don't go out of their way to obtain arcane marks.
Elves are the same and infact they can go further to avoid getting marks. We know that getting Arcane Marks is a career killer for aspiring high mages. That tells us it is possible for them to get them and further more it explains a selection bias in High Magic users, and by extension Elven lords and the like.
Now as far as I can remember Elven mono wind users are either
A) Regular folks who just use basic magic to make their life easier and have no interest in further pursuit. We wouldn't know how frequently these people have Arcane marks because they do not feature prominently in the Lore.
B) Religious figures such as the Priests of Vaul who are generally pretty reclusive and see the use of a single wind as part of their worship. These people are probably somewhere between human wizard and elven culture, Arcane marks are a sign you fucked up in the past but not a career ender, however since they're not featured prominently in canon either its hard to gauge.
C) Future High Magic users who have to learn each wind individually. As noted previously these people are extremely arcane mark adverse and we can assume that any member who gets one swiftly finds a new career and exits this category presumably into A but also possibly B.
Its very hard to judge from this how common Arcane marks are from this however let me ask a question? How many famous mono wind elves can you think of? That'll let us know the sample size we're trying to pull from to establish how common arcane marks are.
There are also the Shadow Dancers of Loec who cast from Ulgu but they're more mysterious.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You get Arcane marks when you mistcast spells right, but what happens when you fail High magic spells that way? It just fizzles out? Explodes in your face. Because getting "Qhaysh" marks isn't a thing. I wonder how a theoretical Qhaysh arcane mark would actually look like
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Isn't the years of meditation and checking of flaws only to create new spells? Boney said that elves take the same time as a human to get to the level of a Lord Magister, so I doubt they take years to learn one spell.
There's also traditions like the Shadow Warriors, Mist -Mages of Yvresse and Ghyran-using Avelornian (at least in quest canon). Those don't sound really religious.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Not just miscasting. Sometimes it happens when you become so in tune with your magic that you summon an unexpectedly huge burst of magic. Of Mathilde's Arcane Marks, she got Flicker from the Kasmir/Burning Shadow double crit on the Singing King, she got the Unsettling Shadow from critting on a cast of Dread Aspect in Und Uzgar as a tide of Skaven came screaming at her and she desperately modified the spell, and she got Mantle of Mist from critting on Universal Confusion, turning it into a Cloud of Confusion but acquiring a Mark. The only mark she got from a downright miscast/awful roll was the recent Shrouded.
Funnily enough, nearly all of her Arcane Marks came from crits, although the Mark sometimes came from Boney rolling a D6 after the crit and getting a low result.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Which is kinda interesting. Because a ton of lore of magic seems to have arcane marks. Not just the 8 winds of the Collages, but you have divine marks and so forth as well. Almost any usage of the "magical" energies of the world, be it wind or divine in nature seems to inevitable affect your soul sooner or later. Wind dragons could almost be considered to be hugely affected by a arcane mark.
The only one that seems seemingly immune to this is, Qhaysh which is generally used by Elfs or Slann. But it's interesting that Qhaysh seem to leave no barring at the soul? The other way of bounding the winds, Dhar is most affecting of your soul, just from being near it.
But is this immunity born from skill? While you could move aside the slaan, I'd doubt that every single Elf never making a mistake while casting over the years. So, Qhaysh by nature seem to just not affect the soul, or move away from it. Something along those lines
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The reason behind it is that they don't bury their soul in the Wind. They maintain a degree of separation. When an overflow of magic occurs, they likely ground it instead of having it flood through their soul. Humans infuse their soul with magic to speed up their understanding and ability to cast magic, so when a mistake happens, they take the full brunt. It gives them an instinctive understanding and a level of intuition that Elves lack, because the Elves don't bathe their soul in the Winds. They take just a spoonful.
It's how humans can cast magic despite having a fraction of the lifetime of an Elven mage's study cycle. It tkaes more than a hundred years to learn Qhaysh because you have to master every Wind beforehand.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
This post:
Is repliying to this post:
It's about Windherder.
Here's the thing that gets me, though- it's not just an Anoqeyan word, it's also a word in Dark Tongue, like the names for the Winds of Magic. Admittedly, the source on this is The Lost and the Damned, from 1st edition RP, but I'm not aware of a later book that gives a list of words in Dark Tongue.