Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting will open in 18 hours, 35 minutes
Reader mode
NSMS said:
I mean... Mathilde kind of is a martial character. Martial 23 plus Master Swordswoman proves it. She's just generally better at being a magic caster- the important word there being 'generally', because she doesn't have any spells as killy as her sword.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are exactly three spells that are killier than her sword. Penumbral Pendulum, Pit of Shades and Okkam's Mindrazor. Mindrazor is about as killy as her sword in actuality (much more since it affects an entire unit though), but it depends on how brave the target you cast the spell on is. Give it to a group of High Elves or Dwarves (if you can even cast it on them) and they become absolute murderblenders.

Unless Mathilde starts going into the deep end of Battle Magic, she's not gonna find anything killier than her sword in her magical repertoire.
 
Codex said:
Unless Mathilde starts going into the deep end of Battle Magic, she's not gonna find anything killier than her sword in her magical repertoire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That was kind of the point behind the Dragonflask tho- it's high end Bright BM, literally as strong as their master enchanter could make, and the dude is the best enchanter in the entirety of the colleges.
 
mathymancer said:
But we're not going to use it, because we have limited magical item slots and they are all taken.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thats why I said I would replace the Flask (maybe the candle) I cant remmber where, but Boeny said that we can replace the 'activated' magic items with the ring as long as it's a one-shot per charge.

And again, I'm not fond of the Flash, so I'm happy with a trade-off.
 
NSMS said:
I mean... Mathilde kind of is a martial character. Martial 23 plus Master Swordswoman proves it. She's just generally better at being a magic caster- the important word there being 'generally', because she doesn't have any spells as killy as her sword.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Codex said:
There are exactly three spells that are killier than her sword. Penumbral Pendulum, Pit of Shades and Okkam's Mindrazor. Mindrazor is about as killy as her sword in actuality (much more since it affects an entire unit though), but it depends on how brave the target you cast the spell on is. Give it to a group of High Elves or Dwarves (if you can even cast it on them) and they become absolute murderblenders.

Unless Mathilde starts going into the deep end of Battle Magic, she's not gonna find anything killier than her sword in her magical repertoire.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The point is against the people saying 'mathy isn't a martial character, so I'm against spending time using AP to up her Martial score'

the thread is playing her as a martial character at the times it matters, so we can't use that argument.
 
The dragon flask unfortunately falls foul of Maxim 6: If violence wasn't your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

We have to be 100% sure it'll one shot the target and end any engagement; if it doesn't we've put ourselves in a vulnerable position.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
The dragon flask unfortunately falls foul of Maxim 6: If violence wasn't your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

We have to be 100% sure it'll one shot the target and end any engagement; if it doesn't we've put ourselves in a vulnerable position.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Its important to put the caveat:

The DragonFlask is Great, its just that it's great for people that use Bright magic or no magic or are not able to do Battle magic.

Lady Mathy doesn't full under those groups.

edit: that said: The Candle of Cleansing Radiance has been waiting to see its day for a long time, and now that we have our own Light wizerds and a Jade Girlfreind, it might have missed its chance until we know we are up against Nurgle or clan Pastalince
 
Last edited:
TotallyNotEvil said:
That was kind of the point behind the Dragonflask tho- it's high end Bright BM, literally as strong as their master enchanter could make, and the dude is the best enchanter in the entirety of the colleges.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Uh, no? The guy who made our Flask was Wolfgang Scheunacht, a Bright Magister:
Codex said:
Wolfgang Scheunacht: Enchanter. Was in charge of making Mathilde's Dragon Flask. Related to Hans?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm pretty sure he's good at his job, but literally nothing and nobody said that he was the best enchanter in all of the Colleges or anywhere close to it. Are you confusing him with Hugo? We don't even know if Hugo is the best either, he's just good.
 
picklepikkl said:
After how long we spent on training montages during the lead-up to Karag Dum, I'm still a little resistant to spend discretionary AP on self-improvement rather than research stuff, but next turn is a free Overwork and maybe I can be talked around to it, especially if we drop WEBMAT for a turn so we have 6 personal AP to play with? Though, honestly, the main self-improvement I want to do at this point is finishing the spellbook.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Next turn is the Father turn, no? In which many here also want to cram in the Waystone foundational action. So that's three actions only for that. And 1-3 more if we also want to recruit Kislevites, Hoethians and/or Grail Maidens.

Though personally I'd delay the foundation action by exactly one more turn. But I see my chances as slim, given that we have another exciting investigation adventure this turn and people are getting more and more impatient from what I can tell.
Shard said:
It's not very not sure what's the right word, etiquette?, to ask for a reward for doing something you weren't paid to do. Even if we get something it probably won't really be much. Probably just some college favor in exchange for goodwill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That sounds okay to me.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
I think that the style will come with +1 (if the dwarf style we got off Gunnder is any example) so that 24.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This seems a bit more involved of an action than the sword style we got off Gunnars. The next step up basically - it might get us to 25 with some juicy situational bonuses.

Jyn Ryvia said:
The point is against the people saying 'mathy isn't a martial character, so I'm against spending time using AP to up her Martial score'

the thread is playing her as a martial character at the times it matters, so we can't use that argument.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And it isn't just that she's getting into 1 vs 1 fights; she's led armies in Sylvania and in K8P (and ended up in command during the Expedition to Dum but we managed to avoid a fight).

Higher martial is likely to be very useful.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
and to be honest, I think the Ring of sudden dawn will be a lot more useful than the flask is proving to be. (that can't cast for 10 minutes after cluse is killer when we do have other options like BM or fancy sword.... Journeyman mathy would use it no prob, but Lady Mathy has to much magic for it to be a good trade.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're overstating the case for the ring. Radiant Gaze is a Relatively Simple spell; it does less damage than Shadow Knives, which we can cast ourselves with no prop necessary and which lets us weave in a free teleport. It is a cute trick, but it's not as good as what we've got natively, and furthermore you've turned the limitations on the Dragonflask from "you need to cast spells nonverbally for a little while after you use it" to "no casting for 10 minutes." Obviously it sounds terrible when you make it far worse than Boney did.

I am all about Windherding more so we get the trick down, but "replace the most Bright magic we can fit into a single magic item with a baby Light spell for baby Journeymen" and calling that an upgrade is silly. The dragonflask's use case is a pocket nuke if we're cornered or if we need to break a strongly-defended hard point. It's not great for daily use, but it's a powerful trump card to keep in reserve.
 
Last edited:
picklepikkl said:
You're overstating the case for the ring. Radiant Gaze is a Relatively Simple spell; it does less damage than Shadow Knives, which we can cast ourselves with no prop necessary and which lets us weave in a free teleport. It is a cute trick, but it's not as good as what we've got natively, and furthermore you've turned the limitations on the Dragonflask from "you need to cast spells nonverbally for a little while after you use it" to "no casting for 10 minutes." Obviously it sounds terrible when you make it far worse than Boney did.

I am all about Windherding more so we get the trick down, but "replace the most Bright magic we can fit into a single magic item with a baby Light spell for baby Journeymen" and calling that an upgrade is silly. The dragonflask's use case is a pocket nuke if we're cornered or if we need to break a strongly-defended hard point. It's not great for daily use, but it's a powerful trump card to keep in reserve.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair, I think that I've talked myself into preferring to replace the candle over the flask.

It's even more situational then the flask.
 
I am against Dragonflasking in the city, as it is still a big fire in a city, no matter how well controlled.
 
How about the grounding rod? As far as I am aware, we don't need it to cast most spells, it doesn't work when making enchantments, and we'll probably give it to Eike in a few turns time anyway.
 
Now I wonder what would have happened if Mathilde did make the Ring of sudden dawn in time.

kill stealing Alric target is already a pretty good way to upstage him. To do so with the most basic of Light spells while being a Grey Wizard? the humiliation would surpass the Supreme Patriarch duel.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Its important to put the caveat:

The DragonFlask is Great, its just that it's great for people that use Bright magic or no magic or are not able to do Battle magic.

Lady Mathy doesn't full under those groups.

edit: that said: The Candle of Cleansing Radiance has been waiting to see its day for a long time, and now that we have our own Light wizerds and a Jade Girlfreind, it might have missed its chance until we know we are up against Nurgle or clan Pastalince
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Jyn Ryvia said:
To be fair, I think that I've talked myself into preferring to replace the candle over the flask.

It's even more situational then the flask.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Ring isn't worth swapping anything out for in my opinion, for the simple fact that it does not open up any new options and provides a negligible enhancement

Ironically I think I've reached the same conclusion about the Ring that you had about the Flask
It's gimmick is being a hidden laser gun for surprise attacks, which is pretty decent... for someone who isn't a Grey Wizard of Mathilde's caliber
In virtually every situation where Mathilde wants to sneakily shoot someone, the ideal use for the Ring of Sudden Dawn, she already has a tool that does the job just as well or better
Cloak activity can be trivially cast for her, it's only visual, but unless Mathilde is giving the target a hug that's usually going to be good enough and from there:
She can just quick draw her revolvers, which is the simplest option with the least room for error when a mundane bullet will do the job​
She can cast Shadow Knives, which has several advantages on Radiant Gaze; it scales with magical ability and mastery so it hits significantly harder, it ventilates the target with multiple knives so it has a better chance of striking a vital organ or multiple vital organs, it bypasses mundane armor and thin cover, and it can be chained with Smoke and Mirrors​
If she's in arms reach she can put that Branulhune quick draw training to use​
If she absolutely, positively wants whatever she's assassinating to die and doesn't care about gratuitous overkill she can take a swig of the Dragonflask​
And this isn't considering options like full on invisibility, or illusory body doubles

The Ring of Sudden Dawn doesn't bring anything new to the table, and doesn't make Mathilde appreciably better at what she already does
If we really feel like covering her bases on being able to assassinate someone while standing next to them in full view then we'd be better off finally finishing that Cloak Activity
 
Last edited:
Jreengus said:
Please, please, please. Windherding didn't work this turn because we rolled terribly so we got an item that did the bare minimum but we also got a very heavy hint that there is a lot more to discover there, I really hate the idea of shelving windherding just because of one bad roll.

Also I think the Ring of Sudden Dawn would make a nice gift for Lord Beyer to commemorate our successful collaboration here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Much like with characters one cannot just say 'the dice did it'. Just like a 2 on Thorgrim's reaction means that IC Thorgrim is the sort of dwarf who would say 'die well' a low roll on a research topic is limiting for what can be done with something, it informs Mathilde's abilities, it is not just pure luck and happenstance.
 
seekingflame said:
Now I wonder what would have happened if Mathilde did make the Ring of sudden dawn in time.

kill stealing Alric target is already a pretty good way to upstage him. To do so with the most basic of Light spells while being a Grey Wizard? the humiliation would surpass the Supreme Patriarch duel.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The guy who is in running for Everchosen won't even be tickled by that spell.
 
DragonParadox said:
Much like with characters one cannot just say 'the dice did it'. Just like a 2 on Thorgrim's reaction means that IC Thorgrim is the sort of dwarf who would say 'die well' a low roll on a research topic is limiting for what can be done with something, it informs Mathilde's abilities, it is not just pure luck and happenstance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not so in this case:
Boney said:
Still, the fact that there's no leakage between the two and no disruption of either effect proves that there's merit to what you're attempting, you're confident that if you manage to contribute at least basic competence to a future enchantment you'd be capable of even better things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is Mathilde outright saying "hey, if we do this again and I don't fuck up, I will actually be able to learn something."
 
I went to check Radiant Gaze's description in Realms of Sorcery to see what is exact effect was in there. I was amused by the lame joke in the description:

"Your gaze focuses radiant power on one target within 16 yards (8 squares). This is a magic missile with Damage 6. Sometimes, looks really can kill."
 
DragonParadox said:
Much like with characters one cannot just say 'the dice did it'. Just like a 2 on Thorgrim's reaction means that IC Thorgrim is the sort of dwarf who would say 'die well' a low roll on a research topic is limiting for what can be done with something, it informs Mathilde's abilities, it is not just pure luck and happenstance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, yes Mathilde had trouble initially getting over her instincts because of the dice but that was just for that roll. Boney hasn't removed the windherder trait or given us a malus so there is no reason to think it will impact on the next time we try it. He also gave us a very heavy hint that not rolling terribly next time would unlock more stuff:
Boney said:
you're confident that if you manage to contribute at least basic competence to a future enchantment you'd be capable of even better things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting will open in 18 hours, 35 minutes
Remove ads
Back
Top