Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
Codex said:
I'm not a history buff. When was Aluminum discovered and people knew about its properties and started using it?

EDIT: Quick Wiki search says 1826, but that might not have given me the full context.

EDIT 2: Oh hey! Magnesium is used in the Aerospace industry. Well, in the 21st century, and as an alloy with Alluminum, but it is one of the most commonly used structural metals.

In any case, I doubt WHF's Gold Wizards are that knowledgable about Aluminum and Magnesium, so I doubt there's any aerospace stuff that's going to be going on until they figure those elements out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To my knowledge, aluminum has been around a long time, but actual refinement is what's new, and affordable refinement requires electricity.

Going over things from the History of Aluminum wikipedia page It looks like theorycrafting started in the 1500s, and people started suspecting it to be a metal around 1760ish but people have known about the salt Alum for something like 2,500 years. Which is natural, since it's a pretty common one, and notably one of the only common salts, if not the only common salt in the earth that is at once non-toxic and also not used in any known biologic process.
 
By the way, I came across a demonstration of Kroq Gar's Hand of the Gods in Total War Warhammer on Youtube:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ducCpg7mWgo

I understand CA sometimes takes creative liberties, like with Searing Doom which is supposed to be projectiles from your fingers turned into a bombardment, but I really didn't expect it to be a shotgun.

This brings me to a question, what would be most beneficial? A long range beam for Shem's Burning Gaze, or a short range multi blast shotgun? I think for Johann a Shotgun might be better? He gets up close and personal often, so it sounds useful for clearing chaff. I doubt he's taking down any big monsters with Burning Gaze.
 
Codex said:
In any case, I doubt WHF's Gold Wizards are that knowledgable about Aluminum and Magnesium, so I doubt there's any aerospace stuff that's going to be going on until they figure those elements out.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They have discovered around 90 elements, while our periodic table goes to 118. Don't underestimate the chemistry knowledge of the gold college.
No aerospace? Sure.
But no knowledge of aluminium and magnesium? Definitely not the case.
 
IronFist said:
They have discovered around 90 elements, while our periodic table goes to 118. Don't underestimate the chemistry knowledge of the gold college.
No aerospace? Sure.
But no knowledge of aluminium and magnesium? Definitely not the case.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is all Boney had to say about the Gold's Periodic Table:
Boney said:
Sounds like the really early periodic table, where there was a whole bunch of assumptions and people promoted various compounds and alloys to element out of ignorance and/or how much they liked them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
They've created a lot of charts, and there's no reason that Mathilde would go for the one that turns out to be true rather than ending up with phlogiston or orgone or the humours or something.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney said:
The version Mathilde saw is almost certainly not the most complete version the Golds have. There's also no guarantee that they got it right. The earliest periodic tables had light and heat on them, after all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney's interpretation is that they're probably not right about their periodic table. Just because they got 90 doesn't mean every one of those 90 is correct.

EDIT: You also have to take into account certain "Elements" that exist in Warhammer that don't in real life which might be part of the Table. Ithilmar and Gromril for example. For all we know Warpstone is part of their table.
 
Last edited:
Ultrackius said:
Just discovered there's a chaos god of atheism

how on earth does that work
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Necoho the Doubter is a 1st Edition God, which makes him noncanon for the purposes of the quest unless Boney decides to bring him in for some reason, and his origin is a bit convoluted.

Basically, there used to be a Chaos God in 1st Edition called Malal that was created for a comic book series. He is called the "Renegade God" or the "Lost One" and hates the other Chaos Gods with a passion and his followers hunt down and kill Chaos more fervently than the Forces of Order. He represents destruction, specifically self destruction, which is why he targets and hates Chaos.

Due to copyright issues he was retconned and replaced with Zuvassin the Undoer, a Chaos God of Destruction seeking to undo what others have done, and Necoho the Doubter, a Chaos God of opposition to religion. He is only "worshipped" in Bolgasgrad in Kislev in 1st Edition, and he considers every day a Holy Day because all days are non-holy. He doesn't like temples because he doesn't like religion. He has no scriptures or requirements from his followers, because he'd rather not have any at all. He has no symbol. He's just a guy.

Don't ask me how any of this works, 1st Edition was wacky like that.
 
Ironically in 40K it seems Malal has come back in some capacity as legally distinct Malice, though I haven't heard anything else since about that plot thread, as something a Renegade Space Marine Chapter turned towards gradually, and has somehow gotten into realspace via the presumed Sacrifice of 11 Champions. Though even if he were to exist IC of DL, I don't think he'd be relevant until the Everchosen pops up, given that would be prime time to mess with the 4 via a Mortal Champion empowered, if we went to Kislev for the Waystone Project due to Chaos proximity, or otherwise came across a brand of Chaos Cultists within the Empire, for some reason.
 
I doubt the Renegade Gods or the Gods of Law are a thing in DL. Chaos is already self destructive and fights among itself a lot of the time, there is no need to introduce Chaos Gods whose entire purpose is sabotaging the Gods of Chaos. Also, the Gods of Law are a bit jank.

Arianka's entire schtick is just that she was defeated a very long time ago and sealed in a crystal coffin, probably under Praag, and she needs a bunch of crystal keys to unlock the coffin. It sounds like a character who was made solely for a plot/adventure hook, since not much else is known about her. I don't even know what her domain is.

Alluminas on the other hand comes with the issue of being way too abstract. He's a god of Light, as well as complete and utter stagnation and lack of change or progress. He is incredibly unpopular with mortals due to being way too alien, and even the authors thought he was too difficult to write so they never really bothered with him.

The only God of Law who got any substance was Solkan, the God of Vengeance, Retribution and Racism. He had a presence in 1st Edition as a god of Witch Hunters who was distrusted by the other Old World cults due to how uncomfortably bigoted and extreme they were. Maybe they were trying to make a statement about racism or something with the God, but he was almost entirely abandoned by GW when Sigmar rose to prominence as the God of Witch Hunters, so he was left in the dust.

EDIT: Also I would be remiss if I didn't mention that copyright issues was a large part behind some of this stuff being abandoned.
 
Last edited:
Codex said:
BTW, Metal spells are capable of making things heavier by transforming them to lead. Do you think they can make stuff lighter by transmuting things to magnesium or another light metal (metaphorically, I'm not sure they actually transmute things to lead so much as make them as heavy as lead)? Asking for a friend.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You'd likely be stuck with the classical metals for spellcasting purposes: copper, tin, iron, lead, gold, silver, and mercury. There are other metals that Chamon might theoretically be attracted to the elemental forms of, but it'd take a higher general tech level or some serious cheating with the tech tree to isolate them before you could even begin experimenting with making spells based on them.
 
Codex said:
I doubt the Renegade Gods or the Gods of Law are a thing in DL. Chaos is already self destructive and fights among itself a lot of the time, there is no need to introduce Chaos Gods whose entire purpose is sabotaging the Gods of Chaos. Also, the Gods of Law are a bit jank.

Arianka's entire schtick is just that she was defeated a very long time ago and sealed in a crystal coffin, probably under Praag, and she needs a bunch of crystal keys to unlock the coffin. It sounds like a character who was made solely for a plot/adventure hook, since not much else is known about her. I don't even know what her domain is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Uzkulak was specifically on the lookout for crystal keys when we visited, IIRC.
 
BTW, apparently there is a canonical Talisman in Warhammer 8th Edition Rulebook available to all armies called the Seed of Rebirth, the same name as Mathilde's artifact. It gives a Regeneration 6+ save, which isn't as good as you might think, but it's decent protection for your average human Hero or Lord.

I think @deathofrats0808's iteration of Mathilde's tabletop stats gave her a Regen save instead of the way the Seed currently works in quest, which I thought was a simplification to make things more fair and less complicated, to let the game move quicker. I didn't know that they probably based it off the canonical item. Although I think the Regen save was better than 6+, which makes sense since the Seed we got was probably a really well made version.

To those who don't know though, in a Tabletop game Regen is shut down by Flaming Attacks. Technically Mathilde has immunity to fire so that never happens anyway (although Death's statblock gave her a 2+ ward save against Fire to make things more balanced), but I just thought it was worth noting.

EDIT: Apparently our item is called the Seed of Regrowth instead of Rebirth. Got confused. I guess it counts as an upgraded version of the Seed of Rebirth.
 
Last edited:
I'm going through and noting all the Imperial Magic Items I can find, and I sure would love if Warhammer can keep its stuff consistent. Page 205 of Realm of Sorcery 2E says this:

"These small amulets are often shaped after Rhya, or in her northern aspect as Dryath, the Mother of Childbirth."

The Amulet in question is a contraceptive amulet that makes pregnancy impossible as long as you're wearing it. Let's put aside that Dyrath's name constantly oscillates between Dyrath and Dryath, here Dyrath is stated to be a Northern Goddess when she is a Western Reiklander goddess. Haleth is the Northern Fertility Goddess.

At least in this case I can just take Tome of Salvation's word for it over Realm of Sorcery since one is more focused on deities than the other.
 
Codex said:
Necoho the Doubter is a 1st Edition God, which makes him noncanon for the purposes of the quest unless Boney decides to bring him in for some reason, and his origin is a bit convoluted.

Basically, there used to be a Chaos God in 1st Edition called Malal that was created for a comic book series. He is called the "Renegade God" or the "Lost One" and hates the other Chaos Gods with a passion and his followers hunt down and kill Chaos more fervently than the Forces of Order. He represents destruction, specifically self destruction, which is why he targets and hates Chaos.

Due to copyright issues he was retconned and replaced with Zuvassin the Undoer, a Chaos God of Destruction seeking to undo what others have done, and Necoho the Doubter, a Chaos God of opposition to religion. He is only "worshipped" in Bolgasgrad in Kislev in 1st Edition, and he considers every day a Holy Day because all days are non-holy. He doesn't like temples because he doesn't like religion. He has no scriptures or requirements from his followers, because he'd rather not have any at all. He has no symbol. He's just a guy.

Don't ask me how any of this works, 1st Edition was wacky like that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think there was any detail, but I'm pretty sure Necoho and Zuvassin were listed in Tome of Salvation.
 
I am curious as to why you would make a magic item as a contraceptive. Magic is rare and expensive after all. Was that thing meant for royalty and high nobles? It is not like herbal contraceptives were not common in the like period of earth's history, or for that matter condoms.
 
Mopman43 said:
I don't think there was any detail, but I'm pretty sure Necoho and Zuvassin were listed in Tome of Salvation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There was a part of my brain that was niggling at me that I knew that they were in 2E as just names, but I checked Tome of Corruption instead of Tome of Salvation, so I didn't find it. Thanks for jogging my memory.

Necoho is described as the Chaos God of Doubt, and Zuvassin as the Chaos God of Undoing, which is all the detail given. They, alongside Kweethul, are the only listed Chaos Gods with an unknown affiliation. Kweethul has a note saying that people believe it to be another name for the Horned Rat.

So yes, this is a Drachenfels situation. A character who is seriously no longer compatible with the lore but still gets namedropped in current content.
 
DragonParadox said:
I am curious as to why you would make a magic item as a contraceptive. Magic is rare and expensive after all. Was that thing meant for royalty and high nobles? It is not like herbal contraceptives were not common in the like period of earth's history, or for that matter condoms.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's mentioned that Hedge Wizards and Witches can make them, and the Jade Order dabbles in them occasionally, so it's probably a super minor enchantment.
 
A safe, reliable contraceptive that doesn't cause discomfort would be highly prized today. In an era where tansy tea and sheep intestine condoms were the norms they'd be solid gold.
 
Wasn't there a talisman from Rhya that did just that? I vaguely recall it being an item that stopped conception if the lady wearing it desired so.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Wasn't there a talisman from Rhya that did just that? I vaguely recall it being an item that stopped conception if the lady wearing it desired so.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't know about other talismans that do that, but I know that there is a subcult of Rhya called the Daughters of Rhya. To use Tome of Salvation's own words from Page 65:

"The Daughters of Rhya is a lesser order comprised solely of women—specifically those who have given birth at least once in their life. Members of this tiny order work as midwives, healers, and counsellors for mothers and mothers-to-be. Also, unbeknownst to most men, the Daughters secretly teach women methods to avoid pregnancy, ways to deal with difficult or abusive husbands, and because of ignorance, the activities of this lesser order are often viewed with suspicion by other, less tolerant cults, particular those primarily dominated by males. Thanks to ignorance and superstition, detractors often accuse some members of the Daughters of Rhya of consorting with the powers of Chaos, and teaching sinister curses to women that "steal a man's potency." "
 
Codex said:
Arianka's entire schtick is just that she was defeated a very long time ago and sealed in a crystal coffin, probably under Praag, and she needs a bunch of crystal keys to unlock the coffin. It sounds like a character who was made solely for a plot/adventure hook, since not much else is known about her. I don't even know what her domain is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
From what I recall, Arianka's specific domain was of discipline. She also had a sword made of the same material as the box she was locked inside of. Seeing how it's apparently strong enough to confine a goddess inside of it, one could presume that would mean the sword itself to be quite potent.
 
I skipped to the end of Throne of Tamurkhan so I can actually get a good look at Elspeth's stats for the first time. A lot of it is stuff I expected. Not that great in melee, Wizard level 4 with Loremaster (Death) (knows all Death spells), stuff like that.

Interesting things about her: First is that her Carmine Dragon's stats surprised me. It has WS 5 and S5 like a Sun Dragon (the weakest Ulthuan Dragon type), but has T6 and W6 like a Moon Dragon (middle dragon). The Carmine Dragon has Initiative 5, which is better than any standard Ulthuan Dragon, and 6 Attacks, which is equal to Star Dragons, the strongest Ulthuan Dragon type. Its leadership is 8, like a Moon Dragon. The Carmine Dragon's stats ping pong a lot between the different Dragon types.

The second interesting thing is that the Carmine Dragon's breath attack is pretty unique. Most breath attack have the Breath Weapon rules, they're a cone originating from the caster and inflict an auto hit, but you still have to roll to wound and armor saves can be taken.

The Carmine Dragon's breath attack is fired like a damn canonball. Anything in the same path as the Carmine Dragon suffers D3 wounds automatically with no armor saves allowed, which is pretty crazy. You also can't misfire with the breath attack. It's a good thing it's only once per game.

The third interesting thing are her magic items. A scythe with Killing Blow and +1 boost to her dispel attempts, and the infamous god dust in her hour glass. Apparently the hourglass gives her limited control over death and time, letting her reroll one die roll every player turn (which is two rerolls per game turn). If she doesn't reroll during a turn, she regains one wound she lost earlier in the game. I assume narratively this is worked out as winding time back.

The final interesting thing is that she has a trait called Darkwalker. Apparently she's so suffused by the Wind of Death that she is considered to be walking the edge between life and death. As such, she is semi ethereal or something, so all attacks get a -1 to wound against her and she has Immune to Psychology. The interesting thing about this though, is that all effects that only work on Daemons and Undead, like the Light Magic Exorcism, works on her.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top