Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting closed, writing has begun.

Hedgefolk exist and are technically breaching rules against non-College magic, but compared to things like Chaos sorcerers and Necromancers they are miles down the list of priorities, and may in fact be beneficiaries of a blind eye or two when they pick up the slack in areas that Imperial institutions have failed to penetrate.

On the topic of the Seed in general, what limits it is how easy the counter to it is to stumble upon: if she goes down, just keep stabbing her until the roots stop moving. It has multiple charges but if she gets killed once where nobody's around to distract whoever/whatever did it, it's very likely to result in Game Over. Also it rather depends on Mathilde's death leaving her mostly in one piece, and there's a lot of ways to die in the setting that aren't so polite.

@BoneyM About how expensive in time and money would it be to get ourselves trained up as a Nuln-trained artillerist? I'm mostly looking at 'knows the basics of rockets' and 'black powder sabotage' but whatever else is on the table is good too.
...also I'm wondering how good an idea it would be to try to buy a drakefire gun from Zhufbar, but whenever I imagine Mathilde wandering around a battlefield with a flamethrower TF2 music starts playing in the background somewhere.

As an Engineer, about half her time for a couple of years. As a mere artillery operator, a couple of months.

@BoneyM What's the in-universe view of Elspeth at least as far as Mathilde knows? She must have heard of her.

She took over as Magister Matriarch when Hexensohn had his little oops under Drakenhof. There's a bundle of equally unnerving stories about her, but that tends to be the case for any Wizard prominent enough to become a household name. Nothing substantial, as Mathilde has no way of sifting fact from hysterical peasant rumour.

@BoneyM

Will you be including ritual research as per the 2E conception of it or some kind of equivalent for Mathilde to learn? I figure that her exposure to the orc ritual may have piqued her curiosity regarding the subject especially as they can be used to interact with the divine.

Sure, it's been an option previously.

You know I never quite understood this objection, people in historical and pseudo-historical settings did awful things to themselves and to each other by the standards of modern values which we modern people hold because we believe that they are right. By and large we believe discrimination is wrong abuse and conditioning is wrong... all these things do not become less wrong when seen in a historical setting just because 'everyone is doing it'.

Mathilde is actually a very smart person, she is analytical and trained to see through delusions, even self delusions, is it that unreasonable that I want to see her to see the flaws in the system that created her? I personally do not hate the Empire of Sigmar (as much as it is even posibile to hate a piece of fiction) but I would like it if our main character could see its flaws.

As someone who has more than a little bit of fanfiction in their past, I completely understand the idea of wanting to fix the very obvious flaws in a setting, and when Mathilde is older, wiser, stronger, and more powerful that's definitely a path that can be set upon. But for the present, the Empire is amongst the least of evils in a setting with some very very evil evils indeed, and Mathilde will be more or less faithful to it because of it. That's not a character flaw, that's pragmatism.

As for the Colleges specifically, if measured by modern ethical standards, they're a terrifying boot camp dedicated to indoctrination under the explicit threat of death. But in the setting as it exists in this time period, they're a way for those cursed and/or blessed with magic to have a future that doesn't involve chaos gods or burning at the stake, and to Mathilde specifically they're her home. Magic almost caused her to be burned at the stake, but it's also her favourite hobby, one of her senses, and an enormous part of her worldview. On top of that, if she had never manifested magic at all she'd be a Stirlandian peasant, and, y'know, fuck that. She'd admit there are flaws in the Colleges and once she has the power to do so she may very well try to reform them, but she won't be seeing them as negatively as anyone with a modern viewpoint would.

If I started Karl Franz Quest I'd want this exact attitude right there from the start, but this Quest isn't about starting at the top and making the world less shit, it's starting damn near the bottom and working your way up one step at a time so that when you are at the top, you know you've earned every scrap of it. And while that climb is underway, you gotta put at least some of that revolutionary energy on the backburner and work within the systems as they are.

EDIT: Hadn't seen the reference you added to them knowing ninety elements. That's a hell of a lot more than I got the impression reading elsewhere. IMO, that sounds like author messing around, or else Warhammer has a lot more elements than Earth, because IRL chemists didn't discover their ninetieth element until Technetium in 1937.

Sounds like the really early periodic table, where there was a whole bunch of assumptions and people promoted various compounds and alloys to element out of ignorance and/or how much they liked them.

1) Anything that has happened once, no matter how unlikely, becomes the new norm. The moment Mathilde killed the first Warboss, even if it took a natural 100, players took it for granted that she would go out to kill the other bosses. They were proven right. Any new accomplishment has to be greater. Mathilde grows in power more and more, which is part of the game.

This I'm keeping a wary eye upon. Mathilde's got her hands on a couple of artefacts and a spell mastery that allow her to punch above her weight, and some people have been overestimating her abilities because of it.

2) The witchhunter she knew just happened to be the one current guardian of The Olde Forbidden Loot™. The boss she killed just happened to be the big warboss. The priest she saw just happened to be in the process in possibly the biggest greenskin ritual of the decade during these days. Of course, the story requires plot hooks, but I'm wary that Mathilde will just keep stumbling upon potential historical events, places, and objects. Somewhat ameliorated by being Ranald's chosen.

Every Peak will have a Warboss (or Warlord or Master Moulder or Warlock-Engineer or...) and each of them are going to be Up To Something - it's an important part of how I write that every character is a target in motion that is up to their own nefarious deeds rather than waiting around for the protagonist to arrive. This does make K8P somethingof a target-rich environment for Major Shenanigans for Mathilde to get into the middle of. That said, killing Skarsnik would have been a big deal if he had been all grown up and ruining everybody's day, but killing Skarsnik in TYOOS 2478 is a cheeky in-joke for the thread and a complete nothing for Mathilde herself, and derailing Grimgor is an assumption the thread has leapt to which they're having too much fun with to speak against.

3) Already mentioned in my other post. "Piety is her best trait", "Let's go to these places because they have this lore." "We should go to X place she does not know immediately." It's a minority, but the arguments happen constantly. Of course, we are outside the narrative and should not ignore our knowledge. However, I'd love to see a closer link to why Mathilde would want to go there.

When it does start to gather momentum I stick a pin in this sort of thinking, but it'll always happen at some level because people fundamentally like to show off their knowledge and this sort of thing is a perfect opportunity. As long as people are aware that it's okay to use it for speculation and blue-sky brainstorming but never for a reason for Mathilde to do things, I think it's harmless.

4) Related, many arguments seem to be around making the numbers go up. The issue here is that this treats narrative elements as pure numbers. Help the dwarves for points. Go there for an extra killy sword. There is nothing in Stirland for her, because the characters don't matter. It seems to reduce Mathilde to a greenskin-killing machine with flavor text, while I would rather she be a character with "being killy" as a small part of her flavor text.

A symptom of being on Expedition, I think. This is a major arc for the readers (and writer!) of the Quest but for Mathilde it's been less than one 'turn' and in a few years time it'll either be the prelude to her actual next vocation or a jaunt she took to clear her head after the Sylvanian campaign, and at that point (I hope) the thread will be focusing more on relationships and long-term goals and making her mark on the world.

None of the above is to dismiss your concerns, but just to make it clear to all that share those worries that these are things I'm aware of and keeping an eye on. Thanks for voicing them.

@BoneyM, did Mathilde see any signs of corrupted henges in or around K8P? Skaven would love them. If such henges are around, then dealing with them may be important part of war. Also, speaking of un-corrupted henges, homes and workshops, would having an access to a strong Henge be benefit for Mathilde?

Just like many Henges can only be properly seen from the right angle, spotting their influence upon the Winds takes a different mindset than one uses when they're just looking around for Ulgu to use or confused orks to stab. This is absolutely in the realm of 'turns', if Mathilde sticks around after the battles.

Any writers in this camp?
...something that occurs to me is that...does the Grey Order offer academic writing classes? To make her papers less dry.

None willing to admit it. And unfortunately not - there actually seems to be something of the opposite, as many academic wizards seem to see overwhelming dryness as a sort of protective shield to keep the unworthy away.

This could be because they're just forming up, but as mentioned before, this sudden, simultaneous movement at the moment we did Our Thing, combined with the fact that the huge Greenskin horde is going for both the Citadel and Karag Rhyn seems to imply that their objective isn't to join up with the Citadel Orcs to fight us, but to purge the Monotheist Heresies.

Keeping on target is not among the strengths of the greenskins. When they start fighting nearby, relaxing because they're not currently fighting you is a mistake the Dwarves are too experienced to make.

@BoneyM Can you comment on this? Or is it something we'll have to do more digging ourselves to figure out?

There's been some chatter about homesteading the valley the Expedition went through to find the Underway route to Death Pass. It seems to be uninhabited, has the river to act as a buffer from all the bad neighbours, and is about to be on a major trade route.

@BoneyM, does Mathilde ship Ranald with Shallya?

She does, actually. Otherwise the story of his ascension is a little gross to her.


If there's anything directed at me that I haven't responded to please repeat it because I had to do a little skimming to catch up. This thread's been flying lately.
 
This post is too long and im too tired so ill keep it short: good fucking luck with ALL of the problems with this

Sincerely, thank you. I have a tendency to go off half cocked about an idea and double down on it if I feel like someone is poking me about it.

I'm aware that none of the "Turn Wizards Into A Knightly Order That Is A Secret Ranald Sect" idea is anything resembling reasonable to pull off even if we dropped everything after this Expedition and spent the next ten years working on it.
 
Second, that part of the idea was to draw from the existing Hedge Grey Wizards, whom it has been said already exist in a weird conspiracy loop within the Grey College. It would require Matty to get read in as one of the Wise, but that shouldn't be impossible due to her current relation with Ranald.
Entirely independent of the quality of this idea, Mathilde has no idea that this conspiracy exists, and nothing in her current patterns of activity would ever lead her to realize that it exists. Because of this, you're essentially relying on GM handouts to point her in this direction in order to even get started on this idea- and because we're far earlier in the timeline than the information about the infiltration you're talking about it may well not exist yet, or at least be so early in its stages that the number of people involved can be counted on one hand.

In regards to expense, they're actually cheaper than a traditional Knightly Order because Aetheric Armor Enchantments don't need to be maintained like suits of armor do, no horses need to be cared for because the Grey Knights cast their own steeds into existence, and Wizards have a general vow of poverty. The only real costs they'd have are weapon maintenance, food and drink, shelter, and a small stripend.
The cost here is opportunity cost, not "how much would it cost to fund their operations". Wizards who are running around being knights are not running around being wizards. Wizards are staggeringly expensive to train compared to knights, far more difficult to come by since the recruitment pool is much smaller, and upon graduating have skillsets which are both deep and broad. How many conspiracies will go uninfiltrated, traitors unfound, and treaties unwritten because of all these magically competent spy-diplomats changing careers to become sword-swingers?

First, it provides a specialisation for the secondary Grey College Campus that a few people have expressed interest in, allowing itself to grow in different directions from the main campus was well as justifying its existence with the unique assets it brings to the table (that being, teaching the normally squishy journeymanlings how to handle themselves in a scrap, equipping them with arms and armor, and providing instruction on how to outpace everyone without wings).
The Grey College does not need a remote boot camp for its journeymen and making one would certainly not justify the existence of anything. It has no trouble teaching martial, magical, or any other skill on its own already. The purpose of a secondary campus is to provide a fast local response time, ability to interact with significant local factors (magical phenomena to study, centers of trade/politics to keep an eye on, threats to combat, etc.), and a general extension of significant influence into a new area of the Empire. General education of any kind can be and is already handled in Altdorf.

Second, it helps funnel more wizards into this newly discovered Knighthood loophole. This is a good thing because it helps provide legitimacy to wizards in general and helps integrate them into people's minds as "Eccentric Nobility Who Go Out And Fight The Good Fight." It's basically a tremendous PR move if it works.
What "newly discovered Knighthood loophole"? Magisters having noble titles is nothing new. Most wizards already come from the noble and burgher social classes and legitimately are in line to some kind of title or significant personal wealth. This is because magical children/teens from poor backgrounds generally either fall into dhar use or are burned by their own communities upon having their abilities recognized instead of making it safely to the Colleges for training, whereas scions of wealth and privilege are protected by their families and safely delivered into the hands of the Imperial institution which will give them legal support.
 
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Every Peak will have a Warboss (or Warlord or Master Moulder or Warlock-Engineer or...) and each of them are going to be Up To Something - it's an important part of how I write that every character is a target in motion that is up to their own nefarious deeds rather than waiting around for the protagonist to arrive. This does make K8P somethingof a target-rich environment for Major Shenanigans for Mathilde to get into the middle of.
You inserted Master Moulder into the list so that we would run wild speculating how important the one we blinded (and was probably subsequently killed by enraged Night Goblins) was, didn't you?
 
Outside of the colleges I just don't think concentrations of wizards are viable. The level of wizard needed to be able to do what Mathilde does in mounted combat is fairly high, and even then it's highly dependent on a number of masteries. Yes, it could be used to create a peerless rapid reaction force, but said force would basically require the bulk of the entire Empire's good Grey Wizard population and wouldn't even be much better in battle than a far less expensive monstrous cavalry unit.

It's like the idea we had back in Stirland about setting up a wizard-led information gathering unit on the undead magnified a hundredfold—demand for wizards greatly outstrips supply and wizards are only very rarely going to be available for any sort of permanent posting, and even though 100x Mathilde-tiers responding to a crisis at once is far superior to 1x Mathilde-tier responding, it's still much less than the expected value of sending one to three and having the remaining ninety plus available to respond to the many other crises that come up. And that's not even getting into the difficulty in actually setting it up assuming we had the raw resources and got green-lit.

Reminding wizards of the knighthood option and encouraging those that have an inclination and aptitude to go for it is a good idea and I'm all for it, but enabling the creation of more individual rapid response units like Mathilde is leagues better than trying to poach them for a knightly order or equivalent.
 
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Ah, that makes sense. Silly me, letting 40k influence me like that, and forgetting that the Skaven are contenders for Eight Peaks as well as Greenskins.
 
There's been some chatter about homesteading the valley the Expedition went through to find the Underway route to Death Pass. It seems to be uninhabited, has the river to act as a buffer from all the bad neighbours, and is about to be on a major trade route.
Isn't Belegar getting to the point he'd ok a home/lab in, say, East Valley?

Also, do we need an enchanted bauble to use the lenses trick as a scope, or just practice? In case of the later, could an action to learn the rifle cover it?

Because getting proficient with it is the work of an afternoon or two with the the Thunderers, given she already knows how to shoot a much harder weapon that is the revolver, and the basics are essentially the same.

Or maybe purchase + practice in one action, I don't know, just something to not feel too silly.
 
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Isn't Belegar getting to the point he'd ok a home/lab in, say, East Valley?

Yep. He'd want it far from residential areas if you'd be using it for magic, but there's not going to be a shortage of real estate here.

Also, do we need an enchanted bauble to use the lenses trick as a scope, or just practice? I'm case of the later, could an action to learn the rifle cover it?

A scope doesn't just magnify, it is carefully calibrated so what it magnifies lines up exactly with the barrel of the weapon it is set upon. That's something that's a lot easier to do ahead of time with a scope attachment, either magical or mundane, than to try to calibrate your lenses on the fly and do your best to hold your gun steady compared to their position in midair.
 
Not sure about the Stirlanders, though IIRC, Cordin talked about how most of them just want enough to purchase a farm, so presumably they're headed back if they survive (although probably not to Stirland.) But the Nordlanders appear to be abandoning their homes out of terror of what's back there, while the Middenlanders are religious exiles, something not exactly conductive to heading back at all.
My thought on the adds:
-The mercenaries are probably going to stick around. The pay is good, though specific mercenaries wouldn't, there'd be more to replace them. Some might settle nearby and open taverns and shit.
-The Stirlander deserters STARTED out wanting to buy a farm, but they've been doing very well so far, no significant losses, and getting good pay. I suspect a good number of them might become a permanent mercenary company with the proceeds. Some might settle nearby. Its prime unclaimed land, as long as they do it outside the Peaks and while the place is full of Greenskins, having a dwarf Karak you helped reclaim next door means you have a fallback point if it turns out to be a terrible plan.
-The Knights are here as an excuse not to be involved in the bullshit going on back home. They'd probably stay until the Peaks are all retaken, the troubles end, or the troubles escalate and they can no longer reasonably stay out of things.
-The halflings are here to stay, nuff said.
-The Journeymanlings are getting good XP, good loot, and making friends who aren't wizards. Life is good. They'd probably stick around until their magisterial trials or the Peaks are all retaken.
Funny enough I've seen people suggest monster creation as a battle spell... heh it might even work if it's a land bound one.
Its not entirely out of the picture. Theres already Ulgu battle spells to conjure nightmares that murder things and then disappear. It doesn't fit Warrior of Fog however, so Mathilde wouldn't be inventing it even if she was able to start working on battle magic.
In regards to expense, they're actually cheaper than a traditional Knightly Order because Aetheric Armor Enchantments don't need to be maintained like suits of armor do, no horses need to be cared for because the Grey Knights cast their own steeds into existence, and Wizards have a general vow of poverty. The only real costs they'd have are weapon maintenance, food and drink, shelter, and a small stripend.
You aren't looking to full wizards there. Full wizards are academics with rather expensive interests. It'd be a very odd Grey Wizard who LIKES doing this, without also being granted significant leeway to research, vanish and generally do their own things. Its more likely that you could recruit a handful of Journeymen who do this as their internship, then graduate out of it.

Also this isn't new. The Bright College seconds a shitload of their magisters and journeymen to armies doing this exact thing. The Amber College basically do the Elite Ranger thing except they don't listen to nobody.
This I'm keeping a wary eye upon. Mathilde's got her hands on a couple of artefacts and a spell mastery that allow her to punch above her weight, and some people have been overestimating her abilities because of it.
Nevermind the artefacts and spell mastery.
Anyone remember when people were overestimating her because of the basic armor spell? xD
None willing to admit it. And unfortunately not - there actually seems to be something of the opposite, as many academic wizards seem to see overwhelming dryness as a sort of protective shield to keep the unworthy away.
I suppose dryness is good for preserving paper...
Clearly we need to play Wing-Woman for him.

Do chicks still dig the severed heads of roving enemy Warlords after ascending to godhood?
Shallya is a pacifist.
IIRC the only things her cult thinks SHOULD be killed is Nurglites. And possibly Skaven. And Skaven Nurglites.
The things her cult think CAN be killed but not necessarily encouraged to kill should be animals, undead, and maybe greenskins. Very maybe.

In respect to her(and possibly caused BY ascending on a stolen bit of her mercy), Ranald frowns on violence as a first solution, especially against other people.
 
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This is because magical children/teens from poor backgrounds generally either fall into dhar use or are burned by their own communities upon having their abilities recognized instead of making it safely to the Colleges for training, whereas scions of wealth and privilege are protected by their families and safely delivered into the hands of the Imperial institution which will give them legal support.

You do realize that the idea that peasant potential mages are dying or becoming assets for the enemies of Order is the reason why a chunk of this thread are going: Mathilde should save those peasant children by establishing a recruitment network in the countryside right? You are restating a well known issue that has already driven pages of discussion, as to solving this problem.

The objection to this is two fold: many of these children who don't fall to Dhar or avoid the stake tend to be recruited by the Hedgefolk, so Mathilde trying to save the children would eventually bring her into conflict with the Hedgefolk. Which probably are one of the reasons why Dhar users in the countryside are kept down in areas Witch Hunters cannot reach.

Secondly, there may well be Grey Order operations already scouring the countryside for potentials active, that Mathilde may well step on the toes on - one cannonical example being the Grey Order scheme to collegize the Hedgewise.

Personally, I don't think the Grey Order are idiots - they know that every peasant child with mage sight grabbed from the countryside is one less security threat five years down the line that the Colleges have to clean up. And I think Mathilde is in no position to rectify this situation until she gains more contacts and supporters within the Grey College, and without investing time. She either has to make Magister Lord, or get in good with the parts of the Grey College who might be going out of their way to recruit.
 
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As an Engineer, about half her time for a couple of years. As a mere artillery operator, a couple of months.

Seems like something to consider when we get back. Reinvest some of our money into learning how to make roit proppa booms, infiltrate another elector count's court as an engineer before revealing we're not just! an Engineer, we're a grey wizard! There's no way this can go wrong.

But more seriously, it seems like a place to make connections, builds up our saboteur skills with being able to figure out how to get the most bang for our buck, I'm hoping to get access to smoke bombs somehow, and while not exactly taking a swan dive into academia for its own sake, building up our Learning stat should help us be a better wizard while at the same time letting us learn skills that don't quite require that we risk dabbling with the winds of magic more than we already do. Besides, given the maiming rate some of the more...energetic engineers have both learning and experimenting, I suspect using the seed to restore lost fingers is going to increase the appreciation for wizards (though probably not their comfort) among a small but influential portion of the Empire.
 
-The Stirlander deserters STARTED out wanting to buy a farm, but they've been doing very well so far, no significant losses, and getting good pay. I suspect a good number of them might become a permanent mercenary company with the proceeds. Some might settle nearby. Its prime unclaimed land, as long as they do it outside the Peaks and while the place is full of Greenskins, having a dwarf Karak you helped reclaim next door means you have a fallback point if it turns out to be a terrible plan.
On this note, Total War has recently made me aware of the Deathjacks, a stirland force with a long archery tradition. If there is a mercenary company formed from this, it will probably be formed around them.
 
On this note, Total War has recently made me aware of the Deathjacks, a stirland force with a long archery tradition. If there is a mercenary company formed from this, it will probably be formed around them.
A lot of RL mercenary companies started out like that. At first its just an army raised by some local leader out of religious fervor or dissatisfaction not amounting to rebellion, they go off a long way, fight far from home and realize they don't particularly want to go back at the end and they're also pretty good at fighting, with enough money to buy decent weapons and armor.

So they go on to sell their services, and things like "participated in retaking the Holy Land" is good things for an employer to see on a mercenary's rep sheet, so they get more business.
Granted, the flip side of the coin is that just as many turn bandit instead if theres no place to sell their services and they failed to make enough money to buy a place to settle in for a living.
 
None willing to admit it. And unfortunately not - there actually seems to be something of the opposite, as many academic wizards seem to see overwhelming dryness as a sort of protective shield to keep the unworthy away.
Are... Are... Are you saying our curse is a blessing? That our ability to keep all but the most invested away from our papers is highly valued in certain circles?
 
We don't see through Pall of Darkness. I suspect that we can see through mundane smoke because of its connection to Ulgu.
As far as basic " break the line of sight" goes, that is sufficient. Darkness that does not inhibit our vision is right out of Warrior of the Fog's repertoire, though. We'll get something like it eventually.
 
Shallya is a pacifist.
IIRC the only things her cult thinks SHOULD be killed is Nurglites. And possibly Skaven. And Skaven Nurglites.
The things her cult think CAN be killed but not necessarily encouraged to kill should be animals, undead, and maybe greenskins. Very maybe.

In respect to her(and possibly caused BY ascending on a stolen bit of her mercy), Ranald frowns on violence as a first solution, especially against other people.
What about a Fuckoff Hueg Runic Thaumic Cannon?

Bitches love cannons
 
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Bitches love cannons

Another reason to study to be an Engineer.

As far as basic " break the line of sight" goes, that is sufficient. Darkness that does not inhibit our vision is right out of Warrior of the Fog's repertoire, though. We'll get something like it eventually.

I'm not opposed to adding something like that to our repertoire, but smoke bombs a) don't cause miscasts, b) can't be dispelled and c) don't (necessarily) mean a grey wizard is nearby. Both dwarfs and goblins use them, and if the Skaven don't have something similar I would be surprised.
 
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