I think King Byrrnoth of Barak Varr might be younger, having only very recently avenged his father and ascended the throne. As for oldest, Ungrim's probably the best candidate, but there's next to no canonical information about the King of Zhufbar so it's hard to say for sure.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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I think King Byrrnoth of Barak Varr might be younger, having only very recently avenged his father and ascended the throne. As for oldest, Ungrim's probably the best candidate, but there's next to no canonical information about the King of Zhufbar so it's hard to say for sure.
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I don't know how the Slayer king oath thing works. Could that have had the effect of applying that oath to the high kingship?
Codex
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So I assume the King who cooperated with Sea Lord Aislinn to fight against a common enemy was Byrrnoth's father rather than Byrrnoth himself? or did that event just not happen? The 8th edition timeline says it happened 2281 IC.
The timeline is wonky so I understand you having to make adjustments.
EDIT: The description says "King Grunkadrakk" so I assume it's Byrrnoth, since Grunkadrakk is a title and I don't think any other king killed a sea dragon/merwyrm.
If it becomes important to the story I'll start searching for copies of a magazine article from sixteen years ago to find the canonical details of Byrrnoth's life and family. Right now I'm operating on memories of a small amount of research I did years ago.
- Location
- Australia
Didn't Asarnil spend some time 'correcting' Mathilde's accent? Would be really funny if she had a really strong Caledorian accent now.
Codex
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Most of the magic doesn't go through her. Her robes are externally focused, more like armor. The Belt gives her a protectinve coating but it's runework, which is something Dwarves made. They know better than to shove raw magic energy into someone since that's a death sentence for Dwarves. The sword is fully external and doesn't run through her. The only thing that directly runs through her magically is the Seed, and only when it heals her. Any resultant Dhar is burnt off by the belt.
Mathilde's been pretty careful about magical enchantments, mostly because Boney instructs us not to mess too much with that stuff and tries to be reasonable.
Burned_Cookie
Very tired girl.
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- Plato´s cave.
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Thorek is actually a super radical researcher but he goes into old broomclosets to "find" his stuff for the streetcred.
As a side note, Palace Economy also tends to obfuscate where the problem is, if the lord is not on the ball with regards to administration - all the resources go to the lord, and then is redistributed, so if there is a systematic problem or a famine, the first apparent sign would very often be the public perception of the lord as Greedy(demanding resources beyond the norm to fulfill needs elsewhere) or Miserly(not having enough float to redistribute).
Which does mean that if an area is suffering a drought, soil exhaustion or overpopulation would often have the peasants complaining to whichever knights errant are in the area, challenge and try to replace the lord, but whoever takes over would not be any better an administrator(worse in some respects really), so once whatever blessings of the Lady triggered by the chivalrous act wears through and the population rises back to its previous point after the fighting, a persistent problem would recur.
That could give a "frequent" rebellion perception.
Sounds very similar to how the chinese dialects work out.
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Is there such a big divide between the dialects of the eight Orders as to be noticeable in casual speech between them? We know that there are cross College classes even among magical subjects and Teclis-Eltharin shouldn't even be a secret they kept from outsiders like the University of Altdorf. Plus, for those who want to actually be able to speak it instead of using it only the way doctors use Latin IRL they'd want to exercise it. For which meetings with other fluent Wizards would be normal.
The other Orders don't have any reason to learn or teach Eltharin. The Grey Order learns Eltharin to craft ciphers that have different meanings whether they're translated back using Lungua Praestantia or Eltharin.
For some reason, I find it hard to imagine the King of Zhufbar being an older dwarf. Both Gotri and Thori are pretty radical, with Thori being very casual with guild secrets during the Stirland campaign, so I imagine Barundin has a similar attitude, and the idea of a dwarf who is both radical and old is... startling.
The answer to this is that it doesn't work. That's the problem, it's two mutually exclusive oaths. How the High King oath would intersect with it is completely unknown. How many times does a High King need to put the needs of the Karaz Ankor over their home, or vice versa? That must be a significant test of their honour and integrity. Then throw in the Slayer Oath and you've got a highly explosive cocktail of drama there.
- Location
- Leeds
But surely once upon a time the Slayer oath and whatever the oath of being King of Karak Kadrim where separate mutually exclusive oaths..
- Location
- Utrecht
They still are... Which is why the slayer oath has not yet been fulfilled after 8 generations.
The slayer must seek death, but the king must survive to lead the hold to prosper.
So Ungrim has to seek death, while wearing the best armour Karak Kadrin can provide, surrounded by hammerers.
And if he comes close, the hammerers are then sworn to keep him alive.
- Location
- Leeds
But Slayer oaths aren't usually heritable, so would this mean the next high king has to become a Slayer?
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- Utrecht
Another council of Kings could be called to avoid that situation.
But if Ungrim dies and fulfils his oath, his son could become high king without issues.
- Location
- Leeds
Well, after 7 generations of failing, I'm sure Ungrim will be the one to manage it.
No, it would be inherited by the heir of Clan Drakebeard, which is Ungrim's son Garagrim Ironfist (who, in Storm of Chaos, chose to preemptively inherit the Slayer Oath before his father died, liberating the clan from the Slayer Oath).
Edit: Wait, hang on, I'm assuming that all High Kings are elected, but I don't actually know if that's true, or if it's just because the last one didn't have a declared heir. If the High King is an inheritable title, then it's likely the same person would inherit both it and the Slayer Oath.
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From what I remember Byrrnoth was supposed to be relatively old - about the same as Ungrim and Thorgrim. He spent a lot of time hunting for that sea drake.
Recently ascending to the throne isn't a good indicator since the old king could have well been a Longbeard or Greatbeard that got married young (for a Dawi because royalty) and had children relatively early.
Gotri is already a Master level engineer so that puts some limits to how young the King of Zhufbar can be - he's either on the older side of Fullbeards or a Longbeard (or possibly older but that's rare).
Considering Zhufbar is the innovating Hold - at least in engineering - them being more inclined to be open with some secrets makes sense since they're constantly inventing new stuff so obsolete centuries old stuff that other 'lesser' engineers guilds also have can be considered already so common and unimportant that it can be traded away.
Recently ascending to the throne isn't a good indicator since the old king could have well been a Longbeard or Greatbeard that got married young (for a Dawi because royalty) and had children relatively early.
Gotri is already a Master level engineer so that puts some limits to how young the King of Zhufbar can be - he's either on the older side of Fullbeards or a Longbeard (or possibly older but that's rare).
Considering Zhufbar is the innovating Hold - at least in engineering - them being more inclined to be open with some secrets makes sense since they're constantly inventing new stuff so obsolete centuries old stuff that other 'lesser' engineers guilds also have can be considered already so common and unimportant that it can be traded away.
It's poorly explained in canon, Thorgrim got the throne because of an election after the previous High King died without heirs, but it's not really said how that would work if someone who was already a King won. Would they rule over both holds? Would their son inherit both holds? What about if they died without heirs, would the High King election mean someone new also gets both holds? The easy hand-wave is to say that it's never actually happened, except for part of Karak Eight Peaks' lore that says that their Kings had been High Kings multiple times before the Time of Woes... but it doesn't say who and it's hard to find enough space in the High King timeline to crowbar in a few previously unmentioned K8P Kings or an explanation for why it's changed so often, which implies a lot of High Kings dying without heirs in what was supposed to have been the Golden Age of the Dwarves. Maybe it used to be elected each generation and it only became inherited after the Time of Woes shattered the Underway and made travelling to decide a new High King too dangerous?
In any case, the Slayer Oath wouldn't 'stick' to the High King position - it would stay with the family line until it was fulfilled or the family was made extinct.
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- Location
- Netherlands
What if the High Kingship wasnt tied to Everpeak officially.
So if Ungrim had won, then he would have been High King and Thorgrim just 'King Thorgrim'. And the throne of power and Book of Grudges would have been transported to Karak Kadrin in for the time.
I don't see how it would be possible for the two to be separate. The Dwarven calendar marks Valaya taking up residence in Karaz-a-Karak as Year 1. The Karaz Ankor's collective Book of Grudges and the historical archives and the Throne of Power are kept there. There is no separate crown of Karaz-a-Karak, just the Dragon Crown of the High King. There's just no getting around that Karaz-a-Karak is the heart of the Karaz Ankor, and that the High King has always been the King of Karaz-a-Karak.
Codex
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Ok, so this is very interesting:
"The white, limestone caves of Zamak Spayenya hide many primitive paintings from a forgotten era. Most depict hunting scenes that feature stylised animals, including bear, elk, deer, and horses; but these animals are not hunted by men: they are hunted by great, winged centaurs.
Some Kislevite scholars believe these to be the Scythian people that once inhabited the oblast, but others bitterly argue against this. Instead, they claim the Scythians were Humans who used centaurs as a metaphor to show man and horse were inseparable, and wings to signify galloping at great speed."
The Scythians are one of the two tribes that created the "Ogham Stones" (the supporting henge networks made by humans in the Waystone network) alognside the Belthani. In DL, the Kurgan say they are the inheritors of the Scythians and we don't know if it's because of conquest or something else. The Roppsmen and Gospodar also say they're descended from them but we don't know much about that, and the Roppsmen are mostly absorbed by the Ungol at this point.
They also apparently have depictions of winged centaurs, and they're depicted in a manner that seems to be positive, so I doubt they were representing Centigors.
"The white, limestone caves of Zamak Spayenya hide many primitive paintings from a forgotten era. Most depict hunting scenes that feature stylised animals, including bear, elk, deer, and horses; but these animals are not hunted by men: they are hunted by great, winged centaurs.
Some Kislevite scholars believe these to be the Scythian people that once inhabited the oblast, but others bitterly argue against this. Instead, they claim the Scythians were Humans who used centaurs as a metaphor to show man and horse were inseparable, and wings to signify galloping at great speed."
The Scythians are one of the two tribes that created the "Ogham Stones" (the supporting henge networks made by humans in the Waystone network) alognside the Belthani. In DL, the Kurgan say they are the inheritors of the Scythians and we don't know if it's because of conquest or something else. The Roppsmen and Gospodar also say they're descended from them but we don't know much about that, and the Roppsmen are mostly absorbed by the Ungol at this point.
They also apparently have depictions of winged centaurs, and they're depicted in a manner that seems to be positive, so I doubt they were representing Centigors.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Maybe in the past Karaz-a-Karak was not the undisputed dwarf capital and the (possible) times the king of K8P was high king Karaz-a-Karak's title as dwarf capital was successfully disputed.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
This is all from the Tyrion and Teclis trilogy, but in canon, Teclis was born in 2157 IC and was therefore 143 when he headed off to the Old World. Interestingly, the series also had the twins move to Lothern at 16 (and get presented to court), and then Teclis spent an unknown but significant amount of time becoming a Loremaster, which he accomplished by the time the Druchii invasion of Ulthuan began.