- Location
- California
[x] [THOREK] Karaz Ghumzul
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] [ARM] Johann
[X] [THOREK] Both
[X] [THOREK] Both
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
As much as I'm catching up on my reading of the Warhammer books, I'm still a Warhammer noob. So I didn't realise the significance of this line until just now, when I cracked open the 8th edition Dwarf Army book. In there, Thorgrim has a quote that says:
"That which is wrong with the world that we cannot fix with the blades of our axes, we shall surely avenge."
I didn't realise that Boney took a canon line from him and changed it to reflect his current mentality, but now that I do I like it so much more.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Will that be on screen? I'd totally get it if not (it would fit the precedent I think), but seeing a LM Mathilde throw around her soft power in an Empire setting would be right up my alley.
Note that as far as we know, the first generation Waystones were built by the elves alone; and that the second were built by the Runesmiths Guild and Elven Archmages after the Ancestor Gods departed, but apart from that, well done.
This is actually a really important political point, as it shows that even shortly after the Ancestor Gods departed the dwaves were developing new (magi)tech rather than relying on the Ancestor's inventions. It's one of the strongest supports for the Radicals, that even the children of and other dwarves who personally knew the Ancestors did this, which would be incredibly radical today. It potentially says so very interesting things about the Rune of Pride, but that's something that we don't know enough about to say anything definitive on.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
They definitely don't see it that way, because the Chaos Dwarfs exist. The fact they also abandoned everything else the Dwarfs like doesn't stop them being secessionists, although whether Ghumzul stings more because they're retained a lot of the Karaz Ankor's traditions or not I couldn't say.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm not sure he was saying they're the only secessionists?
It reads to me like he's saying "well, they're only secessionists", in a sarcastic manner.
As to the vote, I just hope no one thinks all of this will be without cost. Consequences will arrive.
[x] [ARM] Johann
[x] [THOREK] Karaz Ghumzul
- Location
- Utrecht
I don't see it as a mutually exclusive.
Karaz Ghumzul defected, and fell to nothingness in short order
The Dwarfs of Zorn Uzkul defected, turned to worship the ruinous powers and plague us to this day.
So Ghumzul dwarfs are a lesser evil, because they fell and joined an allied polity, and their grudges can be repaid monetarily, and will be pursued after more serious grudges are settled.
Chaos dwarfs are enemy number 1, because they seceded, succeeded and spite Karaz Ankor with their blasphemous practices, and the grudges against them will be pursued relentlessly, given the chance.
It's also likely that the Karaz Ankor already tried to destroy the Chaos Dwarfs during the golden age, failed, while taking grievous losses, which increased the grudge of blasphemy to a much more serious one.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
For what it's worth, particularly if you ask the Chaos Dwarfs themselves, the argument would be that they were abandoned and left for dead, rather than defected.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
[X] [THOREK] Both
[X] [ARM] Johann
[X] [ARM] Johann
How come? The Rule of Pride has no bearing on whether or not you're making up new runes altogether, just that you don't ever put anything short of your best efforts and finest materials you have on hand into your work. It only demands that you never use your runecraft to make anything besides masterworks.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
[X] [ARM] Johann
[X] [THOREK] Both
The dwarves hold keys they will never use. Better someone who will gets their hands on them, if only because to do otherwise is a waste.
As for the runesmithing guild? Thorek clearly intends to do this anyway. We are simply giving him what he needs early.
[X] [THOREK] Both
The dwarves hold keys they will never use. Better someone who will gets their hands on them, if only because to do otherwise is a waste.
As for the runesmithing guild? Thorek clearly intends to do this anyway. We are simply giving him what he needs early.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Well, no, the Rule of Pride is to not make the same runic item multiple times.
- Location
- Utrecht
Which means there were either Runesmiths that didn't abide to the rule of pride so strictly,
Or there were enough Runesmiths to create all the Generation 2 waystones without breaking the Rule of Pride.
Or that the level of Runecraft was so high, that Apprentices (who are allowed to repeat runes and duplicate work) could make Waystones
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Sadly, that take on the Rule of Pride is from RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR, which is set during an era where Dwarves weren't anywhere near as self-destructively conservative, and Snorri has actively undermined the ideological predecessors of this era's runelords.
Here in this era, the Rule of Pride is as follows:
[X] [THOREK] Both
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Option two wouldn't work actually. The Rule of Pride forbids copying the work of other Runesmiths too. Also, an option you haven't mentioned is that each Waystone is simply a unique piece of runecraft. Which would be insane, but still fulfill the Rule.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] [THOREK] Both
Enthusiasm is much better than acceptance, and the cost is payable.
[X] [ARM] Disassemble
Understanding the principles is better than pewpew lazers.
...actually, now that I think about it, I'm not convinced it does make more sense if you've done the reading.
Enthusiasm is much better than acceptance, and the cost is payable.
[X] [ARM] Disassemble
Understanding the principles is better than pewpew lazers.
It makes more sense if you've read stuff from the Western (which actually originated in what we now call the Middle East, but nomenclature is a hard problem) esoteric/occult traditions. The Magnum Opus of alchemy was transhumanism before transhumanism was a thing, and every reference to metal is both literal and a complicated jumble of symbolism drawing from earlier sources.
...actually, now that I think about it, I'm not convinced it does make more sense if you've done the reading.
Thank you for sharing this, I had no idea because I don't read the Warhammer primary sources, and it is great to know the resonance of that line.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
It doesn't, but it's still fascinating.
