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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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...Oh fuck. On the one hand, it may be my ignorance speaking, but i thought we kinda wanted Thorek to go ripping apart the guild? Or maybe i'm misremembering. The Middenheim thing could be a problem, but I'm not really sure how much.
 
I'd lean toward getting the keys for Thorek instead of the testimony. For all the faults of the current Runelords, I can't say they were wrong to distrust the group that turned to summoning chaos creatures.
 
I'm willing to be convinced for either of the options to test the fancy claw thingy, whether Johann or someone else.

But I want to do both the Runelord and Middenland thing, because Thorek is right on both accounts.

(Gack, just typing that felt weird...)
 
Thorek isn't really wrong about the runesmiths but there will be a lot of consequences for helping him stomp all over them and I'm not sure it's going to be a net positive.
 
Hmm. This is a tricky one, no doubt. Thorek coming to power in the Runesmiths would be a good thing overall, but the message I'm getting from him is that he's not going to be careful or gentle about it. And that will have costs, possibly ruinous ones. And Middenheim, I'm not sure on; it's a fairly simple request that seems like it'll have minimal negative knock-on effects, but I suspect it'll require more time (AP) investment beyond this action.

Actually, to head that thought off... @Boney, will either of these actions require further AP investment to complete?
 
Johann is willing to experiment with his body in the name of science, that's enough for me. I've got no more insight into why it's a bad idea that he does, and he's up for it.

Time to put some of those Grey Wizard lying skills to good use. We want to make a success out of this project? We're gonna have to cut some deals.
 
NSMS said:
Hmm. This is a tricky one, no doubt. Thorek coming to power in the Runesmiths would be a good thing overall, but the message I'm getting from him is that he's not going to be careful or gently about it. And that will have costs, possibly ruinous ones. And Middenheim, I'm not sure on; it's a fairly simple request that seems like it'll have minimal negative knock-on effects, but I suspect it'll require more time (AP) investment beyond this action.

Actually, to head that thought off... @Boney, will either of these actions require further AP investment to complete?
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No. Mathilde is already doing a write-up of Karag Dum this turn, and the Middenheim thing just requires a few words with the right people to lend her influence.
 
"...I have been travelling the Karaz Ankor, and everywhere I look I see so-called Runelords with beards grown yellow instead of white, squatting atop their secrets as jealously and uselessly as a Dragon atop a hoard. They fail the Karaz Ankor twice over..."
"Pen a testimony of Karag Dum that would be a casus belli for Thorek's bid for power and influence within the Runesmiths Guild."

Mm-hmmm.
Kragg is the ur-example of squatting atop a hoard of secrets that he refuses to share with anyone. Thorek and Kragg already have a rivalry, which is unfortnate but has arguably produced at least some good by having Kragg show off how much better he can do. But this? This sounds like it would split the Runesmiths Guild into Team Thorek and Team Kragg going at it with all the fury of Grudge-holding dwarfs.
 
Nurgle said:
Not immediately no it is more of a long term thing but strange enough Mathilde knows thousands of potential runesmiths.
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This will seriously anger a lot of the most powerful runesmiths in the world and Thorek doesn't really have the authority to dictate to his equals like that without our help. While he is right that they've become greedy and arrogant, the runesmiths do a lot of good and this will really mess things up.
 
Thorek's interpretation of what happened in Karag Dum matches my own intuition, and I find his cause - to apply pressure to the Runesmiths to share more knowledge, instead of hoarding it so it dies with them - admirable.

I do think that this will legitimately upset Kragg, and there will be negative consequences to taking this kind of sledgehammer to one of the Karaz Ankor's most notable guilds, but I still think that this is worth doing.
 
I do think I should note, we literally only have Thorek's point-of-view on the actions of the Middle Mountain hold.

I wouldn't think he's 100% objective, even ignoring the span of time and upheaval we're talking about since the events in question.
 
The testimony seems like it is easy for us but hard on the Runesmith's Guild and by extension the Karaz Ankor, whereas the keys of Karak Ghumzul would require a lot of our personal footwork but the result wouldn't have any major consequences after the fact so it is a safer option.

Both is tempting but complicated.
 
I'll admit, Thorek's second ask got me to whistle. Probably should go for just the first one, though. The second one will require coming to a consensus on just what the fuck Karag Dum was about, and that's... well. It won't be pretty to say the least. Might even match the mayhem that Thorek carving the runesmiths of the Karaz Ankor into shape will be.

Oh, also. There's Kragg to consider as well. He may not like what Thorek has planned, and if they come to a head I think it's best not to be between them.
 
I'd be willing to support the Dum thing, since that's what the thread mostly believes anyway, but there are some other considerations. The most obvious one is that this might permanently destroy our relationship with Kragg. I'm not sure how likely that actually is, but it's worth thinking about.

Also, giving Thorek free rein is almost certainly going to mean the Runesmiths will double down on his traditionalist stances. Runesmiths may start sharing more knowledge of runes with each other, but don't expect them to start applying runes to anything more modern than a crossbow.
 
tenchifew said:
I am for YOLOing here.
Frankly, I like Thorek, and sympathize with both causes presented here.
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I think most people like Thorek and sympathise with his cause. The problem is, his general attitude and past statements make it very likely that he's not going to be precise or gentle with his efforts in the Runesmiths; he's going to come down like the hammer of an ancestor, and probably push a good number of powerful Runesmiths/Runelords into Slayerhood who he doesn't actually need to, as collateral damage. To me at least, the question isn't 'do we want Thorek's approach to Runemsithing to proliferate', but 'do we think it's worth the cost'.
 
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