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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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...And once again, we're at Ranald's table.
Do we gamble yet again, or do we fold, and secure what we have?
Or do we half and half it?
I'm definitely down for the Middenheim thing, that sounds like more uniting the Dwarves, which we could use given the way we got VERY LUCKY with how we headed off the Belegar/Thorgrim conflict.
...But now a Kragg/Thorekk conflict is on the table.
...
On the one hand, I don't know what to think about it. Karak Vlag would be a swing back against Kragg after he scored a shot via Brandalhune...
...
Nope. I'm out. I can't deal with this much weight.
 
Boney said:
Kragg has never been to Karag Dum. He does not know their runic habits and conventions.



I'm getting sick of answering the same question. Kragg has no useful information on the matter, period.
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Kragg has no useful information on the matter, presumably, and seems unlikely to have a strong opinion either. He presumably has strong opinions on Thorek and his goals, however.
 
[ ] [THOREK] Both
Either possibility would purchase the cooperation of Thorek Ironbrow. Assisting with both would make a partner of him

Tilting towards this
 
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Thorek as a full partner improves the odds of success in this Waystone project enormously. If the Waystones are really the world-shaking, potentially world-saving measure we believe they are, many sacrifices would be justified.
 
Briefvoice said:
Thorek as a full partner improves the odds of success in this Waystone project enormously. If the Waystones are really the world-shaking, potentially world-saving measure we believe they are, many sacrifices would be justified.
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In warhammer that kind of thinking is incredibly dangerous. Those sacrifices have a tendency of causing a lot of problems that aren't so easily fixed.
 
Exmorri said:
"...I have been travelling the Karaz Ankor, and everywhere I look I see so-called Runelords with beards grown yellow instead of white, squatting atop their secrets as jealously and uselessly as a Dragon atop a hoard. They fail the Karaz Ankor twice over..."
"Pen a testimony of Karag Dum that would be a casus belli for Thorek's bid for power and influence within the Runesmiths Guild."

Mm-hmmm.
Kragg is the ur-example of squatting atop a hoard of secrets that he refuses to share with anyone. Thorek and Kragg already have a rivalry, which is unfortnate but has arguably produced at least some good by having Kragg show off how much better he can do. But this? This sounds like it would split the Runesmiths Guild into Team Thorek and Team Kragg going at it with all the fury of Grudge-holding dwarfs.
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NSMS said:
We don't actually know Kragg's position on the KD situation, unless it's been clarified somewhere I missed, and as a rule Kragg doesn't involve himself in politics at all.
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Kragg's thing is trying to be completely apolitical. He wasn't going out of his way to support Dum, but he wasn't one of the voices denouncing them either. He may not have even been aware the debate was going on. There was some WoB on this, which I'll see if I can dig up.

He might still be on Thorek's radar for the sitting on secrets thing, though, which is worrying.
 
I feel inclined to point out that, unless I misunderstood things, the interpretation that Thorek wants is the one that happens to align with the apparent reality. That is to say, it's the truth.

What's our position on useful, dangerous information?
 
Saidoro said:
He might still be on Thorek's radar for the sitting on secrets thing, though, which is worrying.
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Kragg would likely either be completely off Thorek's radar, or offender number one. It depends on whether Thorek considers Kragg's status as the eldest and most knowledgeable living Runelord reason enough to allow him to keep his own council (whether out of respect, or from the pragmatic reason that he'll never get the support to go against Kragg).
 
Ganurath said:
I feel inclined to point out that, unless I misunderstood things, the interpretation that Thorek wants is the one that happens to align with the apparent reality. That is to say, it's the truth.

What's our position on useful, dangerous information?
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We've generally been in support of biting our tongue to preserve peace like with the "Die well" letter. Thorek isn't wrong but the upheaval of the runesmiths isn't going to be quick or easy, the conflict he starts could last for generations.
 
It's not like the cost can only possibly fall on the Runelords and Runesmiths Guild.

The RG represents a substantial portion of the Karaz Ankor's military might, disruption in it isn't going to be without losses.
 
Ganurath said:
I feel inclined to point out that, unless I misunderstood things, the interpretation that Thorek wants is the one that happens to align with the apparent reality. That is to say, it's the truth.

What's our position on useful, dangerous information?
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Depends on the information and the context of releasing it, but the main thing is 'think very hard and very carefully before letting it out the bag'. For example, we had no problem breaking the conspiracy of silence among the mercenaries fighting at K8P, but kept silent about the 'Die Well' letter.
 
Boney said:
"Well, ball-and-socket is an anatomical method of articulation. It works in flesh and bone, but it's a nightmare to get working with metals, or so Maximillian tells me.
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A little thing I noticed: Egrimm almost did the thing Mathilde does where she talks about something she just learned about like its common knowledge, but instead he credited Maximillian in just teaching him it.


Question for those with knowledge of Warhammer canon beyond the thread: what are Thorek's policies that he would be reforging into the runesmith guild beyond sharing more secrets?
 
I wonder what Thorek means when he mentioned Morgrim. Does he also intend to push for slowing down Dawi engineering research?

Because that absolutely would be a dealbreaker for me.
 
dinomannitro6 said:
Question for those with knowledge of Warhammer canon beyond the thread: what are Thorek's policies that he would be reforging into the runesmith guild beyond sharing more secrets?
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Well, he's never going to Rune any guns, I can tell you that much.
TalonofAnathrax said:
I wonder what Thorek means when he mentioned Morgrim. Does he also intend to push for slowing down Dawi engineering research?

Because that absolutely would be a dealbreaker for me.
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His general thing is that he thinks that Runesmithing should be the backbone of Dwarf society and he thinks that Engineering has been taking that more and more. So he tries to compete with anything engineering can do with runes.
 
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Excellent update. I have to admit I really love the atmosphere surrounding the update with Mathilde indulging in her paranoia the instant she got the letter and coming to dozens of conclusions instead of instantly accepting it. Very fitting for a Grey Wizard.

I do greatly enjoy the scene where Thorek is confiding with Mathilde and asking her to get involved in some of the Karaz Ankor's most shameful politics. It really shows how far she's jumped up in the esteem of the Dawi. Thorek at least, doesn't seem to buy the whole "Dawi Soul" thing since he called her an Umgi this update.

In terms of the actual decision, I'm choosing upheaval. Both choices to secure Thorek's unconditional support. We lack cards and we desperately need to stack the deck, if that means making sacrifices, then so be it. The sacrifices we're making (the anger of the Runesmith's Guild) is something I'm willing to make so we can get Thorek's support and work towards a better society.

It truly galls me that these people who were involved in Karag Dum's desperation that resulted in them going so far are living perfectly comfortable lives relieved that they can just safely say "Karag Dum has fallen" and not take any responsibility for their actions.
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
I wonder what Thorek means when he mentioned Morgrim. Does he also intend to push for slowing down Dawi engineering research?

Because that absolutely would be a dealbreaker for me.
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Thorek is progressive for a Runelord but it's worth remembering that they are some of the most conservative dwarfs in existence. That does include a disapproval for basically all modern works of engineering.
 
So, today we have learned the limiting factor on getting powerful groups with important secrets to join the Waystone project: not AP, but favors. Everyone will have their price, and we can't just heap price after price on Mathilde without reaching the point where she cannot meet all her commitments. Title drop, etc.

Boney, if it's something you're willing to share: were there any rolls here that the Gambler has helped with, or was this always what Karak Azul's response would be? I ask because back when we Coined the Dragonstone for Karak Eight Peaks in 2483, you vouchsafed to us that there had been rolls, even though we couldn't see them. But obviously this situation is different and maybe you want to make like Ranald and hold your cards close to your chest.
TalonofAnathrax said:
I wonder what Thorek means when he mentioned Morgrim. Does he also intend to push for slowing down Dawi engineering research?

Because that absolutely would be a dealbreaker for me.
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He means that all of the efforts in pushing dwarf society forward have been driven by Engineers, and that Runesmiths have been letting down the side.
 
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picklepikkl said:
Boney, if it's something you're willing to share: were there any rolls here that the Gambler has helped with, or was this always what Karak Azul's response would be? I ask because back when we Coined the Dragonstone for Karak Eight Peaks in 2483, you vouchsafed to us that there had been rolls, even though we couldn't see them. But obviously this situation is different and maybe you want to make like Ranald and hold your cards close to your chest.
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The Gambler being in effect was something I kept in mind while I mapped out Thorek's possible responses to being contacted.
 
I also don't get why people think Thorek wouldn't be subtle in his dismantling of the Guild and would just go fire and brimstone on them. Thorek is very intelligent and politically savvy, and yes he's incredibly motivated and seems to want to perform a full on purge, but he can be subtle when he needs to. An example of that in this very update is his decision to meet Mathilde in her room, a decision that caught her so off guard she immediately jumped to an imposter because there was no way he could have sent it (at least that was her first reaction). The reason, as it turns out, is that he wanted to be subtle.

Thorek can do subtle. He can be patient too, as demonstrated by the way in which he carefully analyses things in every aspect and reaction before coming to a decision. We saw him go to work, and we've seen him in direct intense conversation. He's not always a destructive hammer smashing down and smiting the unworthy, he can be a precise instrument, a chisel when he needs to be.
 
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