Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Makes a lot of sense, seeing as Skaven were probably created out of human stock by the Horned Rat.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
But orc magic should operate on a similar basis to the other magics on the setting, or other species should be able to do magic the same way orcs do it. They aren't an out of context problem for the setting, and there's not any reason to believe they are using a different reality or set of rules.
We've had Mathilde's explanation of it as the energy generated by greenskins as they anticipate a fight, and this energy is congruent with but does not originate from their gods. So the question becomes: where does the energy come from, originally? Do orc souls somehow pull it straight from the warp and convert it before releasing it to the environment? Is this a similar mechanism to how the polar gates strip out chaotic influences on the winds? Could AV be converted directly or indirectly into waaagh energy? Can waaagh energy be decomposed into any other forms? Are there any other gods that use this sort of worshipper-initiated magical field, or do they all provide power directly to their miracle workers?
There's a unified theory of magic floating around somewhere, but elementalism, greenskins, and ogre magic seem to present the biggest challenges in integration.
We've had Mathilde's explanation of it as the energy generated by greenskins as they anticipate a fight, and this energy is congruent with but does not originate from their gods. So the question becomes: where does the energy come from, originally? Do orc souls somehow pull it straight from the warp and convert it before releasing it to the environment? Is this a similar mechanism to how the polar gates strip out chaotic influences on the winds? Could AV be converted directly or indirectly into waaagh energy? Can waaagh energy be decomposed into any other forms? Are there any other gods that use this sort of worshipper-initiated magical field, or do they all provide power directly to their miracle workers?
There's a unified theory of magic floating around somewhere, but elementalism, greenskins, and ogre magic seem to present the biggest challenges in integration.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Thinking over the topic of Manhavok that was brought up recently, a detail that continues to stick out to me is that, despite being removed from Stirlandian peasantry by age ten, Mathilde had already fully internalized the warding habit and maintained it even decades later. That's ingrained deep, and early, especially for such a comparatively-minor god in contemporary times.
Question: Has anyone floated the idea of trying to use the deceiver on Bok in order to get some kind of access by fooling it into believing we're the authorized Archmage?
Would that make Ranald the first hacker?
Would that make Ranald the first hacker?
- Location
- Utrecht
Bok has ways of knowing who's who. It knew Kragg was a Runesmith but didn't react to Mathilde as she would a Wizard. She probably uses the Sapherian method of determining wizardlyness, with monowind users being dabblers.
What the person thinks is true probably has no bearing on Bok's actions.
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
The coin doesn't make the target believe us unconditionally.
It makes them believe that we believe and are being sincere.
But if Bok has any kind of internal check to see what counts as an Archmage and we fail that test, then Bok will simply believe that while we're honest we are still mistaken.
Essentially, using the Coin to attempt to convince someone that the sky is red will only make people wonder what brand of madness is afflicting us (some might check first though, given that we're a wizard claiming with perfect sincerity that the sky has changed colour).
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I had a thought: what if is there is someone who does magic in a way that results in the Skaven looking at them like human mages look at skaven mages?
is... is there some form of under-underempire with like under-Skaven!?
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- Location
- Earth
While it would make Bok believe that Mathilde thinks she tells the truth, it won't be forced to believe that it is the truth.
It's more likely to conclude that Mathilde is insane. Or delusional.
This is indeed a possibility, but between Belegar's authority and Kragg it might hypothetically work depending on what that check actually is.
Could also attempt a glamour/illusion to go along with it, maybe?
I had a thought: what if is there is someone who does magic in a way that results in the Skaven looking at them like human mages look at skaven mages?
is... is there some form of under-underempire with like under-Skaven!?
It's just Skaven all the way down.
- Location
- Utrecht
Do you want get on Kragg's shit list?
Cos messing with Bok gets you on Kragg's shit list.
Kind of hard to be lower than skaven... there's nothing Skaven won't do if they can think about it.
I had a thought: what if is there is someone who does magic in a way that results in the Skaven looking at them like human mages look at skaven mages?
is... is there some form of under-underempire with like under-Skaven!?
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
Sure, but at that point why's the coin needed? If Belegar/Kragg have the ability to add recognized archmages to the access list, the coin is entirely superfluous. The check will still get made and return a true or false entirely independent of us being 100% sincere due to divine intervention.
My suspicion is that Bok has too much generalized intelligence for this, and that kind of a check is going to be looking at a whole bunch of factors. Bok isn't smart, clearly, but Bok is also capable of some level of decision making given that he talks to humans and bonks skaven. That requires being able to look at a creature, assess, and then make a judgment call about friend/foe based on known information.
If Bok makes judgements like this, which the evidence points to yes, then it's falliable.
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I had a thought: what if is there is someone who does magic in a way that results in the Skaven looking at them like human mages look at skaven mages?
is... is there some form of under-underempire with like under-Skaven!?
Fimir? in pure dark magic study.
The people in the deep chaos wastes?
I had a thought: what if is there is someone who does magic in a way that results in the Skaven looking at them like human mages look at skaven mages?
is... is there some form of under-underempire with like under-Skaven!?
Skaven, Orcs and different cultures worshipping Chaos Gods... It's a surprise there's anything "Order" left at all.
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
But we're not talking about a complex system of identifying generic friend of foe out of a vast possible spectrum of individuals that might fall into either category.
We're talking about Admin Access. A highly limited and specific function, which would likely have a relatively specific set of traits that are investigated because the list of potential individuals that could even theoretically fulfill that function is already highly pre-selected and share (or would be likely to share) some identical or extremely similar details. Such as High magic for Archmages, for example.
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I wonder if we could come up with a way to ask Bok how one goes about registering official titles with it. The construct clearly has criteria and that answer is probably not locked behind admin privileges.
(that is, see if any of Bok's user manual is public.)
(that is, see if any of Bok's user manual is public.)
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- Location
- Utrecht
I doubt they're so careless that the skaven to consider them insane in comparison.
I'd say their brand of sorcery is quite well developed, considering how long they've been at it.
Magic Arranged By Purity
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
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And we're not going to know unless we poke the thing (eventually). If it does check for high magic then Bok's going to request we perform some because to the best of my knowledge there's no way you can just look at someone and determine whether they're capable of casting Qhaysh, as one of the prerequisites to do that is a lack of arcane marks.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Also Bok's inteligence may be more limited than is being assumed. - It followed an Emperor dragon around spouting the warning until Cython passed it to Mathilde, who it followed until she scrapped it off on a volunteer.
Most likely Bok has a configurable list of enemies and Skaven, Orcs, and Trolls are all on it. Apparently no one bothered putting Dragons on it, so Cython didn't register as hostile. And everyone non-hostile is considered friendly.
Most likely Bok has a configurable list of enemies and Skaven, Orcs, and Trolls are all on it. Apparently no one bothered putting Dragons on it, so Cython didn't register as hostile. And everyone non-hostile is considered friendly.
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- Location
- Leeds
Orks displayed on the Y axis.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
It wouldn't work.
Look at it this way- Kragg believes himself to be a Runelord. The Karaz Ankor as a whole believes he is the Runelord.
Bok still calls him a Runesmith.