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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Codex said:
I just want to know who looked at magic and thought to themselves "you know what this spell list needs? Alcohol".

Both Ghyran and Aqshy have alcohol creation spells. What's up with that. Did an Elf make those spells, or was it good ol' human ingenuity? Does alcohol creation count as elemental or mystical? Can the other Winds produce Alcohol too? This tangent brought to you by looking through the spellbooks.
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The Ghyran one's probably elemental, boosting the natural processes by which alcohol is created (which I'll admit to not understanding well enough to be more specific). The Aqshy one is definitely mystical, it's called Taste of Fire and is tied to the burning sensation of strong alcohol in the mouth.
 
also, it's alcohol, and we are humans.

if there has been one consent in huma ancient history, is that 'if it looks like we can make a drink out of it, we will make a drink out of it. if it doesn't look like we can make a drink out of it, we will still make a drink out of it.'

this includes: child poop (Ttongsul), roadkill (squeal beer), Baby Mice (China mouse wine), bits of mummified humans (lots of wines), Dead Seagulls, (dead seagull wine), Penis, Human Saliva, I could go on.

honestly, its weird that there isn't more 'drink spells.'
 
Saidoro said:
The Ghyran one's probably elemental, boosting the natural processes by which alcohol is created (which I'll admit to not understanding well enough to be more specific). The Aqshy one is definitely mystical, it's called Taste of Fire and is tied to the burning sensation of strong alcohol in the mouth.
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Ghyran: I'm going to make this safe to drink.
Aqshy: I'm going to make this facilitate passions.
Jyn Ryvia said:
also, it's alcohol, and we are humans.

if there has been one consent in huma ancient history, is that 'if it looks like we can make a drink out of it, we will make a drink out of it. if it doesn't look like we can make a drink out of it, we will still make a drink out of it.'

this includes: child poop (Ttongsul), roadkill (squeal beer), Baby Mice (China mouse wine), bits of mummified humans (lots of wines), Dead Seagulls, (dead seagull wine), Penis, Human Saliva, I could go on.

honestly, its weird that there isn't more 'drink spells.'
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When I was a kid, I once made and drank hamburger juice. Nothing about this surprises me.
 
I wonder what greenskin fungus alcohol would come out tasting like...

Ok, for the other winds- purple could probably call on the association with killing braincells and alcohol being a weak poison. Ghur could definitely pull from the wildness and lack of inhibitions that drinking facilitates. Grey is obviously confusion water, though I bet it comes out much more like salvia in effect than alcohol. Chamon... I don't know, honestly. There's probably a route to it through alchemy, but the wind itself doesn't seem to have much to offer. I bet hysh could do a pretty good mescaline sort of effect, but cloudy thoughts like booze does seems out of step. Blue I'm betting you could get something like red bull out of, with lightning and wanderlust tuned down to racing thoughts and figgeting.
 
@ Boney, do the spells that fall under Mystical and Elemental in Realms of Sorcery fall under the same categories in Divided Loyalties?

EDIT: Answered below.
 
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Andres110 said:
@Boney, do the spells that fall under Mystical and Elemental in Realms of Sorcery fall under the same categories in Divided Loyalties?
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Doesn't seem so necessarily.

Alliterate said:
In RoS, Universal Confusion (And Bewilder), Dread Aspect (but not Shadow of Death) and Illusion and Cloak Activity are (somewhat oddly?) in the Elemental spell list.
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Boney said:
Those lists shouldn't be taken as gospel for the quest, they're primarily a game balance mechanic so that Wizards wouldn't get hugely increased capabilities over the base game.
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Codex said:
I don't quite get it. I was under the impression that the "plant stuff" was Elemental, but Panoramia here says that's a mistake. Why is providing food Elemental and plant manipulation Mystical? I feel like I'm missing something here that's not being said.
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Fundamentally, Ghyran is the wind of growth and nourishment. Causing growth and/or nourishment in any living thing is Elemental, because it's connected directly to the literal associations of the Wind, and causing a crop to grow is a double whammy because the plant grows and the person who eats from it is nourished. The 'plant stuff' is Mystical because the connection to plants is a result of the metaphorical and mystical associations of the Wind to plant life especially, and using those mystical associations allows Ghyran to be used to achieve things with plants that aren't directly related to growth or nourishment. And a lot of what Panoramia is doing to terraform isn't Elemental, because she's not just waving her hand and making crops grow, she's making a lot of adjustments that will only result in growth or nourishment in aggregate.

That people often think Ghyran's plant stuff is Elemental is because there's a widespread fallacy, both inside the Colleges and out of it, that 'Elemental' means directly useful and 'Mystical' means weird and esoteric, and most Colleges reinforce that with their actions and/or aesthetics. Elemental Aqshy is the Bright Wizards throwing fireballs, Elemental Ulgu is the Grey Wizards lurking in shadows, Elemental Ghur is Amber Wizards hanging around with wild animals, Elemental Chamon is Gold Wizards doing stuff with metal. The Light and Amethyst Orders lean into their elemental aesthetics even though their focus is more on the mystical. The Celestials are an exception to the aesthetic elemental focus, but they go all in on mystical to the extent that many don't even realize there's a weather element to Azyr and people like Hubert get sidelined.

But the Jades aesthetically lean hard into the Mystical associations with plants, likely as a result of their Druidic origins, but a lot of their more visible and profitable partnerships are Elemental assistance given to crops. If they were more aesthetically Elemental, they'd look more like a fertility cult than like druids... which might be part of why they don't. As a result a lot of people assume that 'the plant stuff' is Elemental because that's their aesthetic and what they spend a lot of their time doing.

As a general rule of thumb to the Elemental/Mystical divide: Elemental is the natural process that the Wind is attracted to, Mystical is the mindset or emotions of a sentient being that it is attracted to.
 
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Hmmm...

I was thinking... from Thorgrim's perspective, it looks an awful lot like Belegar has inherited Ancient Dawi Waystone Secrets™, presumably passed down through Clan Angrund for millennia.

Belegar (and his Loremaster, and Kragg) built a magical superweapon overlooking his Karak, a subject which Thorgrim is personally VERY aware takes a lot of magical power. Almost like he knew he had reliable access to that power. Coincidence?

Belegar restarted his own Karak's Waystone, and successfully connected it back to Karaz-a-Karak. Even the High King had no idea that was possible, and it solved a power problem Thorgrim had never spoken of to anyone. Coincidence?

Belegar appears to have tempted Kragg to remain in Karak Eight Peaks for the moment, somehow, even though he's made Karaz-a-Karak his home for a millennium. Kragg has no interests outside of Ancient Runelore Secrets™. Coincidence?

Belegar sent his Loremaster north with the Dum Expedition, and they all inexplicably and bafflingly reconnected TWO MORE lost Karaks to the network. Coincidence...? (honestly, this one being yet another coincidence sounds insane).
 
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silentorphan said:
Panoramia is hardly a shrinking violet--I vaguely remember a mention about the Ducklings being slightly disturbed when Mathilde lets Panoramia take them out on a skaven scouting run and she shows them what Jades are capable of on the battlefield.
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It is worth noting that Panoramia seems to be kinda ignorant about how exactly what she does on the battlefield looks.

Boney said:
"I'm attracted to clever and interesting," you say with a shrug. "And I guess dangerous, a bit. Beyond that, it's all just..." You wave a hand. "Details, and logistics."

She considers that. "I'm not dangerous."

"Have you seen the thorn thing you do?"

She cocks her head. "I guess put that way, I can kind of see it."
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I think that to her, it was more a natural process sped up, not her perforating the flesh of countless enemies for the sake of a brighter future.
 
Boney said:
The next stage is inside, as you need the controlled conditions of magical and unvarying lighting to ensure the Runes you carve into the bone are as exact as possible. The Runes that have proven through decades of trial and error performed by College Wizards to be suitable for the flow of Shadow Magic are a varied bunch borrowing heavily from Eltharin and Thieves Cant, but also heavy with Runes affiliated with various Gods - including Ranald, but also including Renbaeth, Loec, Sokth, Qu'aph, Ptra, Halétha, Uxmac, and Anath Raema. The theory is that these aren't so much invocations to those Gods, but symbols that resonate with concepts that those Gods are affiliated with, and don't directly draw their attention. You hope that's true - the one God in your life is more than enough.
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I didn't bother looking up the gods before, but I will now, so here I'm going to go over the runes of the gods invoked in Mathilde's Staff of Mistery:

Ranald is obvious, we all know who he is. Loec is the Elven God of Trickery, Dance, Theatre etc.. Haletha is the protector goddess of the Hedgefolk in the Forest of Shadows, worshipped by Ostlanders and Nordlanders. Renbaeth the Shrewd is a minor god of Lawyers. Qu'aph is the Nehekharan God of Subtelity and Snakes, which Mathilde might have gotten a sense of Deja Vu from when checking the coins of the Grand Urbaz. Anath Raema is the Goddess of the Savage Hunt from the Cytharai of the Elves, she holds the hunting of all things as sacred, including sapient beings. Doesn't respect the hunt like Kurnous.

Ptra is the Nehekaran God of the Sun, the Creator. It might seem weird that he's included, but he drives his chariot through Night and Day in pursuit of his lover the Goddess of the Moon, so an argument could be made that he depicts Dawn and Dusk. Sokth is the Nehekaran god of scorpions, thieves, poisoners and assassins. Uxmac seems to be the Lizardmen messenger of the Gods? Don't know how Mathilde has knowledge of him.

Overall, 3 Empire Gods, 2 Elf Gods, 3 Nehekaran Gods and a Lizardmen shoved in there to boot. Quite an array.
 
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Codex said:
Uxmac seems to be the Lizardmen messenger of the Gods? Don't know how Mathilde has knowledge of him.
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A lot of plaques have been plundered from the New World and the Southlands over the years, and though most of them get melted down before anybody warm-blooded ever even tries to read what's on them, not all of them are. There's even a band of Skinks running around the Old World working as mercenaries and demanding to be paid in those stolen plaques. So there's scraps of information out there.
 
Boney said:
Overall, Kislev seems a northern mirror to Altdorf, a bustling and wealthy metropolis that gives lie to the impression of barely-civilized barbarians some Imperials characterize the Kislevites as. The main road - the 'Goromadny Prospekt', according to your books - is lined with a mind-boggling number of stalls selling wares from across the world, with the stallholders reduced to frantically waving signs at the public since they can't hawk their goods at the top of their lungs on this day. You attract some odd looks as you weave through the crowd atop your horse, but they seem universally respectful. Kislev is a realm that honours its magic-wielders as much as it fears them, and though most don't recognize your variety of magic, you couldn't convince the average Kislevite to cross any variety of Witch if you had a gun in one hand and a sack of gold in the other.
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So this interested me. Lately I've been interested in looking at videos and stuff from Warhammer Vermintide, and there's a Kislevite Shadowmancer in the game by the name of Olesya Pimenova. I'm curious if there is more to Kislev's magical traditions and there are Wind casters in there alongside the Ice Witches, or if Olesya learnt her stuff in the Empire or was an Ungol Hag Witch so her magical traditions were different. Either way, even if Kislev has Shadowmancers, chances are people on the street wouldn't know about it so Mathilde remains an oddity.
 
Codex said:
So this interested me. Lately I've been interested in looking at videos and stuff from Warhammer Vermintide, and there's a Kislevite Shadowmancer in the game by the name of Olesya Pimenova. I'm curious if there is more to Kislev's magical traditions and there are Wind casters in there alongside the Ice Witches, or if Olesya learnt her stuff in the Empire or was an Ungol Hag Witch so her magical traditions were different. Either way, even if Kislev has Shadowmancers, chances are people on the street wouldn't know about it so Mathilde remains an oddity.
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Ungol Hag Witches have an entirely separate Lore of their own, rather like the Hedgewise - in fact Hedgewise from Ostland and Ostermark have good relations with the Hag Witches and individuals from both groups will jump the border to shelter with the others if there's a crackdown against them at home. But it's far from impossible that there's Wind traditions hidden within Kislevite society, either descended from Grey of Eight Shamans, spun off from the Fire Spire societies, imported from the Empire or from some other source entirely. Or she could actually be a Grey Wizard. I've read a theory that Christoph Engel from the first game was a false identity used by Olesya.
 
Speaking of Ubersreik, I think it's funny that Mathilde's actions cleared out the Skaven in that place much earlier than in "Canon". I think Franz Lohner is old enough that he might have been involved in the elimination if he was working in Ubersreik at the time. Assuming Boney takes stuff from Vermintide, but I found that I quite like the Game's characters. They're very likable.
 
I will die mad that rather than introduce an actual Bretonnian to be their Grail Knight they decided to just make their gun wielding Imperial soldier one

Yes this is a stupid hill to die on but it's mine
 
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