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I think those same questions could be asked about any staff or wand.

because you could say that ultimately, simply, Max's bow is a very costomsed wand.

of course, you could also say 'holy shit, his wand is also a weapon. That's rad, and arguebby a game changer for battle wizards if he can pass it on.

it's all how you look at it.
Except Mathilde learned Staff turning, and what Max did was not it. He just made a metal crossbow with metal, no runes or enchantment whatsoever. There are no winds bound in that crossbow, if he used magic in creating it it was using spells to make himself better at creation. What Max did was not Staff turning, Max doesn't know how to do that.
 
Except Mathilde learned Staff turning, and what Max did was not it. He just made a metal crossbow with metal, no runes or enchantment whatsoever. There are no winds bound in that crossbow, if he used magic in creating it it was using spells to make himself better at creation. What Max did was not Staff turning, Max doesn't know how to do that.
…. That's exactly what he was trying though, making magic stuff through smithing rather then the normal ways.

he made a magic wand/bow his way, like he said he would and others said was stupid.

and I assume he laughed when he showed it.
 
Except Mathilde learned Staff turning, and what Max did was not it. He just made a metal crossbow with metal, no runes or enchantment whatsoever. There are no winds bound in that crossbow, if he used magic in creating it it was using spells to make himself better at creation. What Max did was not Staff turning, Max doesn't know how to do that.

"Maybe because it's metal?" he says, unsure. "The bow was wood, maybe its nature meant it didn't interact with the magics. Or maybe it's a matter of visualization? Because I made the crossbow myself?" He runs a finger down the bolt notch, then takes aim once more, and again the bolt forms in the notch before firing itself forward. This time he maintains the pose, and a moment later another appears and fires, and then another. You've seen better rates of fire, but only from your revolvers and the most skilled archers.

"Silver Bolts of Maximilian," you say, and he grins broadly.
I think he's got a mastery, that replaces arrows with bolts...
His skills are in scholarship and blacksmithing, and if he hadn't discovered an affinity for Silver Arrows of Arha he'd likely be of little use on the battlefield. But he did, and it's made all the difference - by using his crossbow as a prop, he can fire silver bolts with pinpoint aim and a shocking rate of fire. He's spent much of the past year tinkering with that crossbow, transforming it from a mere prop into something that could be considered a very unusual staff, making it even more suited for channelling the spell through
And his pseudo staff improves that spell, like Staff of Mistery improves our Mist Spells. Rather than whittling it the normal way, he built one.
Same end point through a different road.

Calling it "not a staff" is form purism. Honestly, Mathilde doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to that... The Eye of Gazul probably qualifies as a Staff too :p
 
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…. That's exactly what he was trying though, making magic stuff through smithing rather then the normal ways.

he made a magic wand/bow his way, like he said he would and others said was stupid.

and I assume he laughed when he showed it.
This is what Staff Turning is:
Staff turning, you quickly discover, is all the most boring parts of enchantment made even more boring.

Everything needs to be perfect, because it is to have every ounce of power a wizard wields run through it, as well as helping absorb ambient energies to cast those spells in the first place. There's no creativity, no cleverness, no puzzles. You make it as conductive to the Wind in question as you possibly can, and the only variation in results is in imperfections. There can be more to staffs than this - the Bright Order in particular delights in ones able to amplify specific spells - but that's not covered by the class.

Day by tedious day, you rote memorize the various ways to attune materials to a Wind. If you hadn't already spread word of the bounty on dragonbone, you might be tempted to drop the idea altogether and be satisfied with your sword and guns. But at long, long last, the day finally comes that there's nothing more for them to torment you with, and you flee before they change their mind.
Mathilde explicitly mentions that it's a form of enchantment, and as far as we know, Max has no ability in enchantment. The process of him creating the Crossbow was purely him measuring out pieces of steel and welding them together. There wasn't even a proper mechanism for it to actually be used as a crossbow, there was no string or lever or anything.

The way the Silver Bolts manifest honestly strikes me as a Mastery more than it does any sort of staff making. I mean yeah the crossbow acts as a conduit, but if Max was an enchanter Windherding would be much easier to get started on.
 
This is what Staff Turning is:

Mathilde explicitly mentions that it's a form of enchantment, and as far as we know, Max has no ability in enchantment. The process of him creating the Crossbow was purely him measuring out pieces of steel and welding them together. There wasn't even a proper mechanism for it to actually be used as a crossbow, there was no string or lever or anything.

The way the Silver Bolts manifest honestly strikes me as a Mastery more than it does any sort of staff making. I mean yeah the crossbow acts as a conduit, but if Max was an enchanter Windherding would be much easier to get started on.
Your ignoring the point people are making.

enchanting is how most do it.

max proved he can do it his way.
 
"Silver lining," he says suddenly. "There's a hell of a paper in this."

The unfortunate business of the gilding aside, this is a great line, and why I love wizards. "Oh no I got hurt in a magical experiment. Welp, better write down what happened and publish it, for Science!"

the Grey College taught you that highly-skilled but underappreciated underlings are one of the most common and vulnerable weak links there are.

Another thing I love is how incredibly genre savvy the Grey College is. I bet the evil overlord list is required reading.
 
…. That's exactly what he was trying though, making magic stuff through smithing rather then the normal ways.

he made a magic wand/bow his way, like he said he would and others said was stupid.

and I assume he laughed when he showed it.
That's incorrect. He wasn't trying to make magical items from nonmagical means.
"I," he says with some self-importance, "am a craftsman. Temporary transmutation is a skill known to any of my Order, and permanent transmutation is sought after by all. I have found it in creation. Permanent transmutation is achieved when that which is transmuted is used to create." He waves a hand at the marching dwarves around you. "It is said that dwarves are among the greatest of craftsman. As such, I intend to learn from them, and aiding them in retaking their Karak will be the coin with which I purchase an education."
His progress, he explains distractedly as he carefully shapes the metal, is nearing a solid foundation for him to start introducing his magic to the process, using Enchant Item and Law of Logic to enhance his own abilities to create, thus turning the temporary transfigurations of Chamon into something permanent, including a suitable Masterpiece.
His take is "I can achieve permanent transmutation by using the temporary transmutations of Gold magic to make something that lasts." Nothing about making magical stuff, nothing about making a wand or staff. Everything we've heard him talking about making is mundane, but very well made. That's why he came to learn from the dwarves in the first place.

I am pretty sure Codex is correct here.

EDIT: Additional evidence:
"Oh, right," he says, as Gehenna snags the staff from him while he's distracted. "I've been promoted to Magister for my part in the-" he hesitates, and glances at Gehenna and then to you.

"She was at the Battle of Ubersreik," Johann says proudly.

"Yes-yes, fought-slayed the ratties," she says absently, peering at the runework.

"Right, for my part in the Skaven haul," Maximilian continues. "That and a letter of good standing from the local blacksmiths. The College usually looks down on mundane crafts, but the Dwarven stamp of approval made all the difference."
 
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That's incorrect. He wasn't trying to make magical items from nonmagical means.


His take is "I can achieve permanent transmutation by using the temporary transmutations of Gold magic to make something that lasts." Nothing about making magical stuff, nothing about making a wand or staff. Everything we've heard him talking about making is mundane, but very well made. That's why he came to learn from the dwarves in the first place.

I am pretty sure Codex is correct here.

EDIT: Additional evidence:
Stand corrected
 
of course, you could also say 'holy shit, his wand is also a weapon. That's rad, and arguebby a game changer for battle wizards if he can pass it on.
The pedant in me demands I point out that it doesn't actually function as a crossbow, it is just crossbow shaped.

The two of you chatter as he puts the crossbow together, resulting in something that does seem at a glance to be similar in shape to what the Quarrelers use, but closer examination reveals as having no actual mechanisms,
 
Hoo boy, I just reached one of my favorite chapters.
The community inside Karag Nar has come a long way since it was first conquered, and a great deal of this is due to the fact that most of its founders had fifty crowns worth of silver in their pocket, a generous and reliable pay-packet for their continued work securing Death Pass, and no rent to pay.
The Undumgi not having to pay rent makes sense, but I wonder what their tax situation is like? I remember there was a little bit of a concern from Mathilde in the beginning when Edda didn't integrate the Undumgi to the economic structure of the Karak, resulting in the EIC taking control and monopolising Karak Nar's business. The EIC only pay a portion of their profits as tax to Belegar instead of the Undumgi's money flowing into Belegar's pockets, but I think that was before Fransesco became Viceroy, which might have changed the relationships of the Undumgi into a vassal state that has to pay taxes in general as well.
Many of those who frequented Halfling establishments were attracted to the serving sizes, but to those more gourmet than gourmand, the destination of choice was Josias' Arms, possibly because one had to walk halfway to the Citadel to reach it. The operators had expected to cater entirely to their fellow Halflings, and to capitalize on this unexpected popularity and prevent their customers from banging their heads on the low ceiling or getting lost in the fields on the way home, they've just opened The Rest of Josias much closer to Karag Nar. It seems the perfect setting to get to know Panoramia better, as she has an affinity for the Halflings and you have an affinity for obscure puns and eating meals someone else has prepared.
My personal enjoyment of this pun is further enhanced by the fact that I now know that Josias is the Halfling God of Farming and Agriculture. It's like naming your establishment "Sigmar's Hammer". Halflings have a sense of humor and irreverence that's pretty fun to behold.
Making the invitation is easier said than done. With Johann you just sort of invited yourself along to something he was already going to, but this isn't so simple and Panoramia is, well, trickier than Johann. Johann and Max have grown accustomed to a certain level of inscrutability on your part, but Panoramia has developed something of an ability to see through at least some of your usual facades through the years. You consider and reject a number of different approaches over a few weeks, and just as you were closing in on a perfect plan, Wolf gets fed up and goes and asks her on your behalf.

She accepted, and called Wolf a good boy. He was insufferably smug for days.

---

You'd fretted about what to wear for a few minutes because it seems the customary thing to do, but you knew all along you were going to wear the same thing you always wear, and as Panoramia would be coming straight from the fields she's unlikely to have dressed up for it anyway. As your training demands, you arrive early to get a feel for the place and secure an advantageous position, which turns out to be a table in one corner where you could put your back to the wall, and with a window close enough to dive through in case of attack or awkward silences.
I never get sick of Mathilde's antics. As much as she's grown, she remains the cute and awkward women that she was at the start of the quest in some respects.
Being built and furnished with non-Halflings in mind, The Rest of Josias is quite navigable, but everything's still slightly lower down than human construction and it gives it a rather cozy atmosphere that you find yourself rather liking. You cloak yourself in Take No Heed and catch up on your reading while waiting for Panoramia to arrive.

"The Most Noble Art of the Sky," comes an unexpected voice some time later, jarring you out of the book. "Thinking of changing Orders?"

"To the Celestials?" you reply with a grimace, letting the part of your concentration that was keeping your spell sustained dissipate. "Too lofty for my liking. I'm hoping it will help me get inside Hubert's head."
So I was at first somewhat confused at why Mathilde considered Panoramia's voice unexpected when she was waiting for her, so I went to check the description of Take No Heed:
K / Take No Heed: Makes you very easy to ignore - it would take an act of willpower to even notice you unless you draw attention to yourself, and those few that do notice you will have difficulty remembering anything about you. Lasts a few minutes.
The description says that it takes an act of willpower to notice unless you draw attention to yourself, since Mathilde was reading I suppose she expected that Panoramia would miss her and Mathilde could act spooky and pop up out of nowhere, but she was caught off guard and the initiative was ceded to Pan here.
"I suppose you could see it that way," you say, not entirely convinced. "What about you? The farms would be your Elemental side, right?"

"Everyone makes that mistake at first. Most of the plant stuff is Mystical. Though come to think of it..." She frowns, tapping her fingers against her mug. "I guess I have been focused pretty hard on the crops and the soil. Though that could qualify as both, as supplying food would fit under Elemental. Or maybe I'll exercise my Elemental side more after we turn the Caldera into pastures and bring in more livestock."
I don't quite get it. I was under the impression that the "plant stuff" was Elemental, but Panoramia here says that's a mistake. Why is providing food Elemental and plant manipulation Mystical? I feel like I'm missing something here that's not being said.
She looks at you oddly. "Jade Order, remember? I've been pulling Ghyran out of them ever since they woke up last year."
When I first read this I was like "that can't be right, the waystones woke up faster than just last year" and then I check the Battle of the Caldera and it happened 1 and a half years before this date. So much happened in such a short time, it was a real rollercoaster ride.

I also find it funny how the Gold Perpetual that taught Mathilde about Waystones warned very heavily about accessing Waystones for extra power due to the inherent dangers and here Panoramia is as a "Journeywoman" casually channeling magic from the waystones for extended periods of time to affect the crops of an entire valley. The Jade Order has some serious power when it comes to Waystones.
The next meeting of Wizards is taking place in your penthouse once more, as you've got something very special to show off: your very own copy of A Modest Treatise into the Nature of Magic, written by the former Magister Patriarch of the Gold Order.
As someone who's read Realms of Sorcery, I don't envy Mathilde. The few excerpts in the book from this treatise are dense and philosphical enough that it gave me a headache. Puchta sure knows how to use 10 words to describe something that could be done with 3 words instead.
 
I don't quite get it. I was under the impression that the "plant stuff" was Elemental, but Panoramia here says that's a mistake. Why is providing food Elemental and plant manipulation Mystical? I feel like I'm missing something here that's not being said.
Well, what's the difference between Elemental and Mystical? The definitions are probably more nuanced than "Can you summon a spirit made of providing food?"
 
Well, what's the difference between Elemental and Mystical? The definitions are probably more nuanced than "Can you summon a spirit made of providing food?"
As far as I know, Elemental is the physical manifestation of a Wind, whereas Mystical is the metaphysical/metaphorical and less substantial manifestations of a wind.

The Elemental aspect of Ulgu is Fog and Shadow, the Mystical aspect is Mystery, Confusion, Curiousity and Boundaries. The Elemental aspect of Azyr is the sky, the stars, the clouds, thunder, lightnign and all sorts of meterological phenomenon, whereas the Mystical aspect of it is Time, Foresight, Philosophy and Wanderlust.

Ghyran is kind of harder to pin down? Like I don't think any specific emotion is represented by Ghyran, and it's spheres sort of overlap but differ from that of Ghur's. Maybe Elemental is the cycle of seasons and Mystical is the concept of growth and fertility? I don't know tbh.
 
A reasonable assumption. My thinking is that the Elemental involves the material presence of that which inspires the state of mind associated with the Wind. For Ghyran, that's the experience and encouragement of growth.
 
I just want to know who looked at magic and thought to themselves "you know what this spell list needs? Alcohol".

Both Ghyran and Aqshy have alcohol creation spells. What's up with that. Did an Elf make those spells, or was it good ol' human ingenuity? Does alcohol creation count as elemental or mystical? Can the other Winds produce Alcohol too? This tangent brought to you by looking through the spellbooks.
 
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I just wanted to know who looked at magic and thought to themselves "you know what this spell list needs? Alcohol".

Both Ghyran and Aqshy have alcohol creation spells. What's up with that. Did an Elf make those spells, or was it good ol' human ingenuity? Does alcohol creation count as elemental or mystical? Can the other Winds produce Alcohol too? This tangent brought to you by looking through the spellbooks.

Its not a new topic. There was talk (somewhere) of an Ulgu version used to make "Confusion water" but I think Boney shot that one down.
 
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