Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Mmm, but TT doesn't really mean anything.
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If it's any comfort, the rpgs back me up here, (I think).

AdenoidNebula said:
True True but when pages of the thread are filled with how powerful the threat of bolt throwers are and how that is the crux of many the post arguing between the two plans. Really the only difference just comes down to which threat is bigger i guess?
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It's the zealots drugged out of their minds, ready to slice up our chaff level state troops with two/three attacks per round with faction boni to hit and wound.
It is not the artillery, who I doubt will risk shooting the berserkers in the back and getting flayed alive as an Example.

We associate elves with archery and magic, but in Warhammer*, all of their best qualities and many (possibly most) of their heaviest hitters will be found hacking people apart with a sword or axe.

*(Upon further reflection, this does not apply to the Wood Elves, who I briefly forgot about, and who are heavily encouraged to hang back and slaughter people with their unique magic arrows, with their (really good) cavalry and monsters typically being Plan B/ the coup de grace).
 
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TheCynicalPogo said:
It has a major risk of leaving us completely open to their own artillery fire, which by word of QM, and given that this is Ghrond, is all enchanted ammo to make what's normally wooden bolts extra destructive to our forces. The crux of the arguments has been whether we should risk getting f'ed by artillery fire and focus on their main force for the possibility of massive damage, which is the option TehChron's plan supports, or give up on said possibility of an advantageous opening salvo opening the way for mass Druchii casualties to better safeguard our own forces against the potential damage the artillery can inflict-like homing bolts slamming into the wings of Oskana and killing her, Kerillian and Natasha, magically explosive bolts destroying our walls, or any other possibility, given that we are dealing with a magical group pretty much only rivaled by Hoeth, Tzeentchians, and the Slaan
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I feel that this point of view is monofocused on artillery to artillery and ignores the other dimensions of the battle. If possible, can we review the tactical situation :

AIR - we know that Druchii dark pegasi armed with crossbows and lances have taken the air. The Whitewings have largely fallen back to recover, and Natasha on Oskana remains the most significant air presence we have.

I ASSUME that Natasha and Oskana are taking a defensive stance closer to our walls, given the Druchii air superiority.

GROUND : we know the Druchii elite units are on the field, marching on open ground without cover. Our own units are exhausted while theirs are fresh, but we have the advantage of the final wall. We also have the gambit to unleash the flagellants and the cavalry.

The Druchii may or may not have the ability to scale the walls, but I am leaning that they do, as we have not spotted ladders. Either that or they are relying on their artillery to bring down a gap of the wall.

ARTILLERY - We know via WOG that their artillery is enchanted, and is using the remains of the previous wall as cover. In contrast, while our artillery is also covered by the wall, ours is also depleted.


Assuming that my above understanding is correct, I believe that the Druchii artillery will focus on the walls to open gaps to increase the exposure for their superior and fresh soldiers to utterly massacre our tired and inferior ground.

Given that our air has no real option but to attempt to mitigate the damage of Druchii air, and that we agree on use of flagellants and cavalry, the only real point of contention is whether we focus the artillery on attempting to supress the Druchii artillery, which has cover, vs aiming for the relatively open Druchii infantry.

I believe the Cordwood plan is superior, as chances for maximizing the damage on their ground should be higher, especially in conjunction with the flagellants and cav, as compared to successfully suppressing their artillery, which has cover.

By the end of the day as well, the Druchii ground managing to close with our army unmolested feels to me as defeat, whereas losing our air, walls, or artillery are relevant only in that we lose tools to keep the Druchii ground away, saying nothing of the psychological angle if we are able to inflict grievous casualties on their ground.
 
[X] Like Cordwood, Stack Terror

Because spite. Both in universe and outside of it. We already know how torroar stuff works by now. Everything can work, everything can fail. There are safer and more risky options, but everything's dependent on the RNG to some degree.

Druchii artillery has never been impressive and never will be when it comes to traditional artillery roles. Their infantry, especially the Darkshards, is where their potential lies. As for flying support? Well it's either going to be the artillery or the Darkshards who will shoot into the sky, so one or the other. Nevermind magic.

Rest is just Freddy intuition. If the walls are going to fall, then not because a ballista shot them, but because they got more animals to smash into them. If you want to prevent breakthroughs, then target the animals.
 
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To change the topic, because I think you're all being really excessive.

Did we tell Barrack Var that we're going to have Asur reinforcements?

I don't think the Dawi and the Asur are at 'shoot on sight', given that they've worked together before (and so must refrain from shooting… immediately anyways), but I'm not sure if either group knows about the other.

Additionally, I'm also not sure if the Dawi can ascertain the difference between Druchi and Asur ships from a distance in absence of a giant floating temple to Khaine, or a similarly egregious monument to their difference.

It would be extremely embarrassing if two thirds of our back up shot each other to pieces.
 
We're giving a black ark a better fight than anyone else has in who knows how long. Not to mention we'll have the two of them on the same side of a fight since before the war of the beard (so far as I know). Without listing out past accomplishments, I think we'll be ok.

The aftermath will be interesting though.
 
The Dawi know that Frederick worked with Elves and torroar said often enough that their opinion on it at this point is: so what? He is still Frederick Von Hohenzollern, Dawongr of the Karaz Ankor, etc.

Barak Var had to fight off Druchii before and they are accomplished saylors. They know the difference between an Asur ship and a Druchii ship. Same with clashing. The elves under Eldyra have no reason to start a fight and neither do the dwarfs, because that would dishonor their mutual ally.

No, the Dwarfs won't be pissed about it, because they absolutely know what's at stake. The fact that Frederick Von Hohenzollern came to them in his time of need is a massive sign of prestige for the entire hold.

And in the ridiculous case in which they actually shoot each other into a premature watery grave? Well, if they can't bury the axe to fight a greater enemy threatening their mutual ally, then they are better off dead.

Have some faith in commin sense, oaths, respect and responsibility.
 
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Honestly one of the Dwarfs picking a fight with the Asur in this situation, and I mean a proper, violent fight, not them just getting snippy and arguing with the Elgi, is probably the kind of thing that, later on, would have them taking up the Slayer Oaths out of shame, especially if that fight actually ruined some things for Frederick, or the battle, or whathaveyou.
 
If it helps anyways, most of their focus would be on the massive black arcs instead of the Asur ships anyway.

Not unless the Asur suddenly decides to paint their ship black and that spikes are in vogue.
 
changing my vote to
[X] Unleash the Martyrs, and Stand at the Gates!

I have been convinced by the arguments. Both options have their merits, but ultimately torroars answer on the siege ablity of the delf arty convinced me to prioritize them
 
Counting on luck to prevent that being more than a forlorn hope does worse than try to render the game state static, it outright hobbles our one big opportunity this round to secure an advantage on the race to satisfying our respective win conditions.

The cavalry charge is simply too big a chance to keep the Druchii from playing to their strengths. If we land it, theyll be forced to the back foot of the battle rather than us.

Itd be a different argument if the artillery teams had any serious long term prospects at this point, but they genuinely dont.

Barring luck. And I'd rather invest that luck in gunning to win rather than forcing a stalemate on one of our few remaining strengths over the Druchii infantry.

We just need to kill them while we have the chance, and the entire tempo of the fight changes in our favor so long as we can take down their supercombatants as well. If enough of them die now it wont matter, the Ogre Archers and Elven archers will be able to try and pin them in, and we'll be able to start prepping additional counter charges and sallies to reach out and snap their backline.

If we can reach a state where we can reasonably send the Steam Tanks back to the Fifth Wall, then we'll be able to crush their artillery batteries outright through weight of bodies and cavalry charges.
 
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Aleadrex said:
I feel that this point of view is monofocused on artillery to artillery and ignores the other dimensions of the battle. If possible, can we review the tactical situation :

AIR - we know that Druchii dark pegasi armed with crossbows and lances have taken the air. The Whitewings have largely fallen back to recover, and Natasha on Oskana remains the most significant air presence we have.

I ASSUME that Natasha and Oskana are taking a defensive stance closer to our walls, given the Druchii air superiority.

GROUND : we know the Druchii elite units are on the field, marching on open ground without cover. Our own units are exhausted while theirs are fresh, but we have the advantage of the final wall. We also have the gambit to unleash the flagellants and the cavalry.

The Druchii may or may not have the ability to scale the walls, but I am leaning that they do, as we have not spotted ladders. Either that or they are relying on their artillery to bring down a gap of the wall.

ARTILLERY - We know via WOG that their artillery is enchanted, and is using the remains of the previous wall as cover. In contrast, while our artillery is also covered by the wall, ours is also depleted.


Assuming that my above understanding is correct, I believe that the Druchii artillery will focus on the walls to open gaps to increase the exposure for their superior and fresh soldiers to utterly massacre our tired and inferior ground.

Given that our air has no real option but to attempt to mitigate the damage of Druchii air, and that we agree on use of flagellants and cavalry, the only real point of contention is whether we focus the artillery on attempting to supress the Druchii artillery, which has cover, vs aiming for the relatively open Druchii infantry.

I believe the Cordwood plan is superior, as chances for maximizing the damage on their ground should be higher, especially in conjunction with the flagellants and cav, as compared to successfully suppressing their artillery, which has cover.

By the end of the day as well, the Druchii ground managing to close with our army unmolested feels to me as defeat, whereas losing our air, walls, or artillery are relevant only in that we lose tools to keep the Druchii ground away, saying nothing of the psychological angle if we are able to inflict grievous casualties on their ground.
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Hm, this convinced me.

[] Like Cordwood, Stack Terror

Edit: whoops, see the vote is closed. That's what I get for waiting till morning to actually post.
 
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After all this heated debate over where to point our artillery at, it'll be pretty funny if both our and the Druuchii artillery just kept rolling Nat 1s during the rest of the fight and become a collective non-factor.
 
Huh. Just realised the grenadiers are going to be nightmare for the drucchi. You cant dodge shrapnel, especially when they want to get into close quarters where grenades are going to be supremely effective. Wonder if we have many deathspinners left too.

Bet drucchi quest really weren't expecting humans that hybridize skaven lol.
 
WinterLantern said:
Huh. Just realised the grenadiers are going to be nightmare for the drucchi. You cant dodge shrapnel, especially when they want to get into close quarters where grenades are going to be supremely effective. Wonder if we have many deathspinners left too.

Bet drucchi quest really weren't expecting humans that hybridize skaven lol.
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Druichii quest is not having a good time, since they just recently lost a foothold in Albion and then getting kicked from the Asur lands.

The inner politics is going to be something, for sure.
 
WinterLantern said:
Huh. Just realised the grenadiers are going to be nightmare for the drucchi. You cant dodge shrapnel, especially when they want to get into close quarters where grenades are going to be supremely effective. Wonder if we have many deathspinners left too.

Bet drucchi quest really weren't expecting humans that hybridize skaven lol.
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we also have shot guns they may be able to predict a bullets path but a hail of buckshot is a hard counter for them
 
Alright then, vote's closed, so we gambling people! I'll probably still not be fully convinced that not targeting the artillery isn't a bad move until we see what the dice rolls are, but I am looking forward to being proven wrong! Can't wait to see some dead Druchii
 
Not gonna lie, right about now, I'm just wondering when the Navy, the Manaanites, Long Drong, etc are gonna swing around and hit the Black Arks/provide naval support.

Remember our whole strategy of letting the Arks crash on the walls to preserve our fleet and allow them to attack at their leisure? Yeah... now would be a really good time to have Greatship support, especially as the Druchii Fliers and Artillery are out.

Like, I'm running scenarios in my head, and if the dice are horrible and we're forced out of the walls, then the prudent, yet horrible move would be to flee into the city and take the fight there (Waldermar has a castle right?) Turn the battle from D-Druchii Day to Dark Elf Stalingrad.
 
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